50m penalty from a kick out

[Sentinel]

Watching the end of the Essendon vs Carlton game, Saad was paid a 50m penalty whilst kicking out, I believe due to Eddie Betts stepping over the mark (which seemed extremely harsh, but that's beside the point). The mark was advanced almost to the centre circle.

Either way he was taken too far, but does anyone know - should a 50m penalty from a kick out advance to the point 59m from goal (9m goal square + 50m) or 69m from goal (19m where the kick out protected area ends + 50m)?

 

[little hawk gmf]

Watching the end of the Essendon vs Carlton game, Saad was paid a 50m penalty whilst kicking out, I believe due to Eddie Betts stepping over the mark (which seemed extremely harsh, but that's beside the point). The mark was advanced almost to the centre circle.

Either way he was taken too far, but does anyone know - should a 50m penalty from a kick out advance to the point 59m from goal (9m goal square + 50m) or 69m from goal (19m where the kick out protected area ends + 50m)?

 

[hawkman]

I believe its 50m from where the mark is so it would be 69m. Was more like a 60m penalty though

It was a deserved 50 against Betts though, he went way too early

 

[Sentinel]

I believe its 50m from where the mark is so it would be 69m. Was more like a 60m penalty though

It was a deserved 50 against Betts though, he went way too early

This is where I'm confused. I'm not sure where the 'mark' actually is.

When kicking out, a player is called to play on if they step over the end of the goal square - which is the case in normal play when they step over the mark. The 10m protected zone is basically no man's land that doesn't exist in general play.

Also on the Betts 50m, he may have stepped over early but the opposition had players inside the protected zone - again in normal play you're allowed to follow your man into that zone, so that's treated differently here too. Should the umpire not have called play back like they do when the opposition blocks the man on the mark? I'm not sure. All just technicalities.

 

[master bate]

The Essendon player closest to Betts (Hooker?) is clearly behind Betts and not impeding his ability to man the mark nor can Betts claim to be following him. The second Essendon player is inside the protected zone but he's just walking, he's not really impacting the play at all. There's an argument to say the umpire should've reset the mark to clear that player away, but it's a question of what happens first. If Saad plays on then the mark would have to be reset.

But clearly before Saad has played on Betts has encroached way over the mark.

The 50m penalty then gets applied from the man on the mark which is then 69m from goal. Unfortunately the ump put him about 85m from goal.

Correct 50, awful measurement.

 

[Bell Ringer]

The Essendon player closest to Betts (Hooker?) is clearly behind Betts and not impeding his ability to man the mark nor can Betts claim to be following him. The second Essendon player is inside the protected zone but he's just walking, he's not really impacting the play at all. There's an argument to say the umpire should've reset the mark to clear that player away, but it's a question of what happens first. If Saad plays on then the mark would have to be reset.

But clearly before Saad has played on Betts has encroached way over the mark.

The 50m penalty then gets applied from the man on the mark which is then 69m from goal. Unfortunately the ump put him about 85m from goal.

Correct 50, awful measurement.

That’s a bunch of BS.

There’s either a 2nd player inside the protected area of there isn’t.

Leaving it up to the ump to determine whether they will or won’t impact the play is garbage.

 

[Crashy]

Is it play on from when Saad leaves the goal square or do you need to wait for the call, the umpire may have been a second slow calling it?

 

[keithrichards]

On review I think the umpire got it right. Maybe 3-5m too long on the penalty.

50m was there as a start, as Eddie charged at Saad before he had left the goal square.

The mark on a kick out is 10m from the goal square, or 19m from the goal line. So the 50m penalty should have been set 19m from the 50m line.

I believe this is where the umpire officially placed the new mark, which to the eye is ~20m from the 50m line.

 

[PumpyChowdown]

Is it play on from when Saad leaves the goal square or do you need to wait for the call, the umpire may have been a second slow calling it?

It's from when the player kicking in leaves the square. So the penalty was there. It was far too long a penalty though.

 

[Sentinel]

The Essendon player closest to Betts (Hooker?) is clearly behind Betts and not impeding his ability to man the mark nor can Betts claim to be following him. The second Essendon player is inside the protected zone but he's just walking, he's not really impacting the play at all. There's an argument to say the umpire should've reset the mark to clear that player away, but it's a question of what happens first. If Saad plays on then the mark would have to be reset.

But clearly before Saad has played on Betts has encroached way over the mark.

The 50m penalty then gets applied from the man on the mark which is then 69m from goal. Unfortunately the ump put him about 85m from goal.

Correct 50, awful measurement.

Thanks. Channel 7 showed a reverse angle after the game when interviewing Betts which made it look harsh, but this was posted on the Dogs board which does show him encroaching early (still a potential argument for play to be reset with Betts being impeded but that would be a stretch):

Appreciate the clarification on 59m vs 69m

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Umpire got the 50m wrong.
The 50 is from the square, not the mark, at least that's how it has been paid in my time

 

[Sentinel]

Found a 2019 AFL rule change & interpretation guide for umpires which confirms 69m is the correct distance the mark is advanced to.

 

[master bate]

That’s a bunch of BS.

There’s either a 2nd player inside the protected area of there isn’t.

Leaving it up to the ump to determine whether they will or won’t impact the play is garbage.

Let's say McGovern marks right on the corner of centre square and a bunch of players from either side run through the protected area - team mates and opposition following them. At the same time Hurley continues to charge 5m over the mark. Is the mark reset to clear the protected area? Or is it a 50m penalty for being over the mark paid regardless?

Betts wasn't within 2m or tracking the Essendon player in the protected area, he's rushed over the mark well before the umps called play on, so that 50m penalty is paid.

 

[TheKITC]

Before the 50 is even paid, wouldn't it have to be a free-kick to Betts for being shepherded on the mark, which you are not allowed to do?

Can't really be a 50 without being a free kick I think, but I could be wrong. Either way it was a cluster *. The umpire needed to take far more control of the situation and mark the 50 out properly as well.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

The second umpire is setting the mark in the centre circle. It wad an 80m advance. Ridiculous

On review I think the umpire got it right. Maybe 3-5m too long on the penalty.

50m was there as a start, as Eddie charged at Saad before he had left the goal square.

The mark on a kick out is 10m from the goal square, or 19m from the goal line. So the 50m penalty should have been set 19m from the 50m line.

I believe this is where the umpire officially placed the new mark, which to the eye is ~20m from the 50m line.

View attachment 901749

 

[billybloggs]

who were the umps involved?

 

[keithrichards]

The second umpire is setting the mark in the centre circle. It wad an 80m advance. Ridiculous

The photo I posted is the specific time he set the mark. He is not in the centre circle.

The umpire continued to run downfield, and the Carlton players proceeded to follow him, instead of man the mark where it was signified

 

[FlowersByIrene]

The photo I posted is the specific time he set the mark. He is not in the centre circle.

The umpire continued to run downfield, and the Carlton players proceeded to follow him, instead of man the mark where it was signified

Wrong. Second umpire blows whistle and holds hand up setting the mark in the centre circle.