Autopsy 54 point loss to Fremantle

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Johnny_Dogg4

Premiership Player
Apr 5, 2017
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The question is how did we allow this to happen so quickly? We were young when we won the flag we should have foreseen this? I’ve been on this ride for 50 years and was hoping for a little more glory before returning to the darker times.

well many experts including us fans thought we had a bottom 4-6 list heading into 2015.
so tell me have we improved that list? which players have become better? deficiencies ?
 
People still losing their minds after a couple of bad games. Toughen up everyone.

We're a young team in transition, finding our path back to the top. Chill out and enjoy the ride.
Its not just a couples of bad games though. It was obvious from the 2017 jlt preseason games that there were issue's. So 2 full preseasons one full season and already a quarter of this season. Yes we have had some ok games in that time but the bad definitely outweighs the good.
 

Braybrook Son

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 4, 2016
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well many experts including us fans thought we had a bottom 4-6 list heading into 2015.
so tell me have we improved that list? which players have become better? deficiencies ?
The one that improved last year was Bailey Dale. He’s gone backwards so far this year. Williams has improved, can’t think of any others really. Naughton and Gowers have come in and looked alright. Not much else. Not a lot of improvement in the list in 18 months I’m afraid. Dare I say it, Honeychurch has probably improved slightly, but still has huge difficiencies in his game, and will always be a fringe player imo.
 

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The one that improved last year was Bailey Dale. He’s gone backwards so far this year. Williams has improved, can’t think of any others really. Naughton and Gowers have come in and looked alright. Not much else. Not a lot of improvement in the list in 18 months I’m afraid. Dare I say it, Honeychurch has probably improved slightly, but still has huge difficiencies in his game, and will always be a fringe player imo.
McLean has definitly gone up a notch or two. One of our best now. Macrae has improved IMO too. Others have gone backward though, like Wood,Morris and Boyd (all for different reasons).
 

bobby2

Club Legend
Jun 19, 2015
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Things are pretty bad right now.

18 months on from a flag we are looking down the barrell of a bottom four finish.
Not sure there has been any bigger fall from the top in recent AFL history.
I understand that a lot of people on here say that we shouldn't just blindly use the flag to justify the club's current position. They're right to an extent. But to use the flag as part of an argument that the club is in disarray is completely unfathomable. We are 18 months on from a flag. That is a fantastic thing, which has only happened twice in the club's history.

Honestly, I think we'd see less complaining on here if our team had spent the last three years on the bottom of the ladder, as expected three years ago, rather than having a rapid rise and fall. Personally, I'd rather fall from the top than sit at the bottom.
 

Johnny_Dogg4

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Apr 5, 2017
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The one that improved last year was Bailey Dale. He’s gone backwards so far this year. Williams has improved, can’t think of any others really. Naughton and Gowers have come in and looked alright. Not much else. Not a lot of improvement in the list in 18 months I’m afraid. Dare I say it, Honeychurch has probably improved slightly, but still has huge difficiencies in his game, and will always be a fringe player imo.

yeh agree with that, it seems the players who played VFL back in 2015 have seen the most improvement .

from a whole list profile id argue that the 2015 list was stronger than 2018, despite many saying we were bottom 6 team
 

JJHunter

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Jan 15, 2008
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I understand that a lot of people on here say that we shouldn't just blindly use the flag to justify the club's current position. They're right to an extent. But to use the flag as part of an argument that the club is in disarray is completely unfathomable. We are 18 months on from a flag. That is a fantastic thing, which has only happened twice in the club's history.

Honestly, I think we'd see less complaining on here if our team had spent the last three years on the bottom of the ladder, as expected three years ago, rather than having a rapid rise and fall. Personally, I'd rather fall from the top than sit at the bottom.

You know what I would rather - id rather my club not accept mediocrity.
I’d rather a period of sustained success rather than 2-3 years up and 5-7 down.

It is possible to do you know. You don’t have to fall
 
Sep 27, 2011
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I have no doubt with some of our injured personnel on the park we’d be in much better shape but it doesn’t hide the state and inbalance of our list... The fact is we do have injuries and those spots are being filled by players who have been on the list for years and have proven to be honest toilers at best. We have too many talls and not enough mids and lack the bona fide hardness of a Matty Boyd and class of a Bob Murphy.
 
You know what I would rather - id rather my club not accept mediocrity.
I’d rather a period of sustained success rather than 2-3 years up and 5-7 down.

It is possible to do you know. You don’t have to fall
Hang on, which club official has "accepted mediocrity"? Has the FFC Board signed off that it accepts mediocrity? Who would you identify as the culprit(s)?

Sure our performances have been mediocre since the middle of last year if not earlier, but do you think everyone at the club is happy to accept that? Do you think nobody at the club is striving for a period of sustained success? The reality is there is fierce competition out there. When in good faith you make a few mistakes in coaching, strategy or list management and get more than your share of injuries the other clubs go past you pretty quickly which is what has happened to us.

I agree we shouldn't accept mediocrity (see my sig) but for the first time in my adult life we have won a flag. For the first time in 30 years or so we are debt-free (nett) and in 2016 for the first time in history we reached 40,000+ members. We are already over 40k again this year and it's still April.

I'm not a cheerleader in rose-coloured glasses. I'm disappointed in how quickly we've fallen. Yes we should be concerned right now but I'm hoping we can rebound fairly quickly (or at least in 2-3 years when our mostly under 23 side has matured a bit) but I'm tremendously pleased and proud of what we have achieved in the last 2-3 years. We became the envy and the role model of all the minnow clubs. The reason we achieved what we did was that Gordon and Beveridge (among others) did NOT accept mediocrity and instead they said there's no reason why we can't win a flag. They got the players and the whole club to buy into that belief.

As long as we retain that fighting belief we have every chance of rebounding and who knows, maybe even achieving some sustained success.
 

Next Waiting

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 19, 2014
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Hang on, which club official has "accepted mediocrity"? Has the FFC Board signed off that it accepts mediocrity? Who would you identify as the culprit(s)?

Sure our performances have been mediocre since the middle of last year if not earlier, but do you think everyone at the club is happy to accept that? Do you think nobody at the club is striving for a period of sustained success? The reality is there is fierce competition out there. When in good faith you make a few mistakes in coaching, strategy or list management and get more than your share of injuries the other clubs go past you pretty quickly which is what has happened to us.

I agree we shouldn't accept mediocrity (see my sig) but for the first time in my adult life we have won a flag. For the first time in 30 years or so we are debt-free (nett) and in 2016 for the first time in history we reached 40,000+ members. We are already over 40k again this year and it's still April.

I'm not a cheerleader in rose-coloured glasses. I'm disappointed in how quickly we've fallen. Yes we should be concerned right now but I'm hoping we can rebound fairly quickly (or at least in 2-3 years when our mostly under 23 side has matured a bit) but I'm tremendously pleased and proud of what we have achieved in the last 2-3 years. We became the envy and the role model of all the minnow clubs. The reason we achieved what we did was that Gordon and Beveridge (among others) did NOT accept mediocrity and instead they said there's no reason why we can't win a flag. They got the players and the whole club to buy into that belief.

As long as we retain that fighting belief we have every chance of rebounding and who knows, maybe even achieving some sustained success.
I find it extraordinary the negativity that has crept in in recent days. As you say there is much that has happened in very recent times to be happy about/appreciative of. And as someone else mentioned/recommended - we're on a new journey, enjoy the ride. Life as a supporter is going to be f***cking miserable from time to time over the next couple of years if you can't ride the bumps.

As an aside, I've reviewed the Freo game a couple of times, especially the first half where it was lost and early 3rd qtr where it was compounded. JJ and Dale in particular will be getting lashed for their performances and the inexperience (perhaps fatigue as well) of 4 of our 5 game veterans accounted for half the opposition goals. And a few stoppage set ups that were very questionable in terms of personnel, organisation and awareness. These things are very fixable. Interestingly and perhaps surprisingly, when the game was being lost, Jong was basically error free and one of our better performers.

Wiiliams and Hunter returning this week makes us significantly better. At some point this season, when the injuries have abated, we've get some back and have a bit of continuity, we are going to put in a performance that is irresistible and blows someone off the park. Might only happen once (hopefully more than that) but it will be a glimpse of what lies ahead.
 

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Braybrook Son

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Jul 4, 2016
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McLean has definitly gone up a notch or two. One of our best now. Macrae has improved IMO too. Others have gone backward though, like Wood,Morris and Boyd (all for different reasons).
To be fair to Boyd, he never gets say 4-8 weeks where he’s playing as a majority forward. Whether it’s form, injury or both. If he gets a decent run at playing mostly forward, he’ll get a chance to get some confidence up and might even blossom!
 
This.
What a dumb post from a usually smart poster.

Ease up. I’m not saying things are roses. I’m just saying people are getting swept up in the negativity. We always play crap in Perth apart from one game. Eagles and GWS sit high on the ladder and we are full of injuries.
 
Feb 11, 2008
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Ease up. I’m not saying things are roses. I’m just saying people are getting swept up in the negativity. We always play crap in Perth apart from one game. Eagles and GWS sit high on the ladder and we are full of injuries.
Call it how I see it.
It wasn't a great post. We have been uncompetitive in three games out of five this year an extra win doesn't paper over that. The negativity is more than warranted.
 
Call it how I see it.
It wasn't a great post. We have been uncompetitive in three games out of five this year an extra win doesn't paper over that. The negativity is more than warranted.
But there was no need to make your reply a personal slight. Stick to the discussion and stop belittling the poster with whom you disagree.
 
How is calling a post dumb a personal slight against someone I called smart in the very same line?
If I describe your reply to me as moronic and totally devoid of self insight would you consider that a slight?
 
Call it how I see it.
It wasn't a great post. We have been uncompetitive in three games out of five this year an extra win doesn't paper over that. The negativity is more than warranted.

Negativity is warranted but the need to revel in it and roll around like pigs in muck is not.
 

TMoney22

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Sep 15, 2010
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all I can say is that the world is a much better place than what we think. and our club is in a lot better space than before. we have great young players and good coaches. do we need to improve, obviously but we are not a basket case. evidence please or it is just conjecture.

If we were hanging around the 8 last year and this year then i would agree with you but there is NO EXCUSE for the drop off of effort and determination over the last 25 or so games by 90% of players. And if you still want evidence after that comprehensive list then i give up. I could write a 100 page report on the detail of that list.

The thing is most of that list is either debatable, of borderline laughable.
Wow, i'm really surprised at that. If you don't think that list is an issue there is no helping you.


Some maybe small and not directly impact on field but they all add up. For example, the Alberti thing was a massive storm in a tea cup and who really cares. But it should never have got to that point that it did and it just added that little 1% damage to our brand, reputation or what ever you like to call it. And adding up all those 1%'s has a decent impact. It's debatable how that impacts players but you can't cross it off, i tell you if i was a player and seen that list, it paints a picture of the club which i would at very least question. If we want to be a well run club then those don't occur.

the excuse of being young, yes it's valid and the correct call. But you could say it's mismanagement why we are so young.

I'm happy to go young and be beaten. But when i see efforts like against freo, WC, gws and most of 2016, that's big time alarm bells.
 

TMoney22

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Sep 15, 2010
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Pretty much.

For example you can say Beveridge is crazy for shifting Wood forward/playing Daniel back/Trengove everywhere, but at the end of the day he has also made decisions to shift Matty Boyd back, go crazy with 3rd man up, and send Picken into an attacking role too. They won us a premiership, so to say he is mismanaging the team because of moves like that is showing very limited judgement on his coaching. It's the same with Gordon. He's made mistakes along the way, and obviously is more controlling than Smorgon, but the deal he apparently led the way in achieving for Whitten Oval is probably in the top 5 things to ever happen to the club. Just because the team loses a few games doesn't mean every single thing going on is wrong.

Yep, Bev moved Wood back as we all wanted. There is nothing wrong with trying Wood forward. Had a go, didn't work, moved him back. That's fine and something i'm glad was tried.

It's been a lot more than a few bad games. The last few bad games have been really really bad and together with 2016, makes you wonder what has gone wrong, hence why we are talking about it
 

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