5th Ashes Test England v Australia July 27-31 1930hrs @ The Oval

Who will win?


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    97
  • Poll closed .

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badgrill

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If they got given a ball in worse condition than what they wanted, they wouldn’t be allowed to refuse it as it is not their choice. I would assume the same logic would apply for a ball being ‘too good.’
I'm not annoyed at Stokes or England about it, but perhaps the process itself needs some tweaking or at the very least reviewing
 
Oct 9, 2006
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Super Tottenham....from the Lane.
I’m sorry to burst your bubble but it is something no one has been doing before.


If you want to go down that path, the West Indies were doing it 25 years before that Australian team courtesy of Richards and Greenidge and fredericks.

The difference is that when those teams did it, it wasn’t done over a concerted period of time, it wasn’t done via a deliberate effort to pick players for the express purpose of playing ultra attacking cricket with the bat: Australia werent tailoring their selections in order to score at five an over - they were picking 6 absolutely world class batsmen who’s quality and dominance occasionally led them to situations where they would have a field day like the one described against England.


If a team started playing 5 specialist bowlers every game you wouldn’t say ‘this has been done before’ just because 50 years ago a team played one test with 5 specialist bowlers.

Last calendar year England scored half a run quicker than the most aggressive Australian team ever did in a calendar year, and that was inclusive of a couple of tests not played with McCullum and stokes in charge where they expressly played for survival.

This year it’s gone up further.

You need to accept it - whatever its merits or faults, this is unprecedented. And so far, based on the 500 per cent improvement in their results, it’s working


I have acknowledged that the Windies also did this sort of thing before we did it.

But you are giving the Poms too much credit. They haven't reinvented the wheel at all. It hasn't and won't revolutionise the game. They couldn't even win a home series against a pretty average Australian team despite winning 4 tosses, having pitches prepared to their wishes and an Aussie captain who stood by and allowed them to get away with batting in a way that previous captains would not have allowed.

Shane Warne would have put an end to this "Bazball" garbage in a session.

"Bazball " is the marketing equivalent of a "superfood." It's nothing out of the ordinary at all. All I saw was some irresponsible batting by a team who were not good enough to win the Ashes back.
 
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Apr 1, 2009
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2-2 feels different to 2019. Then we were clearly the better side, bowlers were all over their top order and Smith produced an all time great series. It felt like Paine and Langer completely threw away a golden chance to win the series with the Headingly final day fiasco, the premature pissup at Old Trafford and the inexplicable decision to bowl first at the Oval.

This time it feels like England were bossing us from the get go and the achievement has been to cling on for dear life to keep the series as drawn. We were always waiting for English hubris to let us back into the match, and both wins felt more like relief than any sense that we had dominated with bat or ball. Even the bowl first decision feels different here, as it's main purpose was to deny England the match scenario they would want rather than to get on the front foot.

Although I was desperate for Smith and Head to get us home last night, in some ways I'm glad Australia didn't get a series win here. I don't think the approach from Cummins and McDonald has been effective or good to watch at all and if you played 100 Ashes tests with these two approaches I think England win 80% of them.

In general I think the series hasn't been as good as 2019, let alone 2005. Whilst there's been some crazy and controversial moments that I can't quite believe happened, the contest itself between bat and ball has felt nerfed and artificial. I'm convinced that last ball England got was from an earlier batch, no other ball in the series behaved anywhere like it and it seemed to stay much harder for the whole innings and with a more pronounced seam. Ridiculous for the umpires to introduce that drastic change in conditions, but also shows how much better the series could have been if we had those types of balls throughout.
 
Apr 12, 2010
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I hope there is at least a proper analysis of the tactics in the wash-up. Unlike many, I'm not really putting all the blame on Cummins, he's getting plenty of support from Smith and other players, and is also going in with certain instructions. Focus really needs to be put on McDonald because some of the tactics just weren't up to scratch and choosing to bowl in the final Test was boneheaded.
Hmmmm. Conditions were good for bowling and we should have taken chances, and pitches were not breaking up much. But picking Murphy again and not giving him 4th innings......

Main tactic we got wrong was giving easy singles. Second worst was not attacking stumps more to the tail.
 

Coasters7

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I’m sorry to burst your bubble but it is something no one has been doing before.


If you want to go down that path, the West Indies were doing it 25 years before that Australian team courtesy of Richards and Greenidge and fredericks.

The difference is that when those teams did it, it wasn’t done over a concerted period of time, it wasn’t done via a deliberate effort to pick players for the express purpose of playing ultra attacking cricket with the bat: Australia werent tailoring their selections in order to score at five an over - they were picking 6 absolutely world class batsmen who’s quality and dominance occasionally led them to situations where they would have a field day like the one described against England.


If a team started playing 5 specialist bowlers every game you wouldn’t say ‘this has been done before’ just because 50 years ago a team played one test with 5 specialist bowlers.

Last calendar year England scored half a run quicker than the most aggressive Australian team ever did in a calendar year, and that was inclusive of a couple of tests not played with McCullum and stokes in charge where they expressly played for survival.

This year it’s gone up further.

You need to accept it - whatever its merits or faults, this is unprecedented. And so far, based on the 500 per cent improvement in their results, it’s working
Adjusted for era though there have been plenty of sides that have done it. We’re playing in a t20 era and they’re still only going at a run an over more than most other current teams and Aussie sides from the 2000s we’re doing it unironically, without the risk, and without the underlying t20 mindset. Just playing good cricket.

If England were scoring at 7s and 8s then I’d agree, but they’re playing slightly more aggressive cricket in an era built on aggressive cricket. Also I haven’t seen them once face what we did at the start of day 5. They wouldn’t last 10 overs if we had a ball moving like that
 

frankrizzo

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Jan 6, 2004
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jfgjgfj

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Jul 12, 2004
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Going from a dead ball doing nothing to a near new ball ok is it? The replacement ball still had the writing on it and was seaming, bouncing and hopping around corner 95 overs in. Given the utter whinging and hypocrisy of the English players and fans, if they don't like this complaint then bad luck.

The old ball still had writing on it as well…
 

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DaRick

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Jan 12, 2008
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:musicnotes: His Way

And now the end is near
No Broady spells, no bowling hot streaks
He bought them fifteen whole years
But couldn't match the length of Jimmy's
He ran for miles and miles
His jumbo feet, at home or a-waaaay
But now the prick is gone
He did it hiiiiiiis waaaaay

Pissed off our cricket fans
He failed to walk
For all of his talk
Ran cliques with braindead mates
And we all know of his smug prick face
A ponce who loved his Notts
But what a shame that they cannot play
A tall man, who served his queen
He did it hiiiiiiis waaaaay

Yes, he told fat lies to umpires
And couldn't faaaace Mitchell Johnsonnn
He kept bowliiiiiiiing
Despite our jibes
And turned his baaaack
On sportsmanship
He ran and bowled
Now watch him go
He did it hiiiiiiis waaaaay :musicnotes:


 
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Yep. McCullum is a huge sook. As is Stokes.

It is beautiful to retain that urn and to revel in doing it after rain ruined England's certain victory push towards it.

How sweet it is.

PS: I remember in 2005 a pic of you doing thr rounds on here sitting on a boat holding a gatorade?

It’s great to see Australia go from we’ll win the Ashes to retaining it is just as good. From 2-0 to 2-2 is pretty bad, from needing 120 runs with 7 wickets in hand to losing by 50 runs is even worse.

Wtf? Can’t say I’ve ever seen it 🤷‍♂️
 

Westend

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I hope there is at least a proper analysis of the tactics in the wash-up. Unlike many, I'm not really putting all the blame on Cummins, he's getting plenty of support from Smith and other players, and is also going in with certain instructions. Focus really needs to be put on McDonald because some of the tactics just weren't up to scratch and choosing to bowl in the final Test was boneheaded.
100percent
 

Blue Arrow

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'
Marcus Trescothick, England's assistant coach, said on the second evening that the new ball seemed "just a bit harder" than the old one.
"The boys could sense the ball was making a different sound off the bat," he said. "Immediately, there's a bit more life in it. Balls seem to have gone very soft, very fast in this game - and this series. Both captains have tried to change them on numerous occasions."'

He would know, this cheating POS is an expert about balls & their changing condition.
Keep ignoring the mints.
Spirit Of Cricket & all that.
 

frankrizzo

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Jan 6, 2004
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whats the bet we produce 5 batting highways for them next time they tour. Instead of 5 greentops.
Best way to beat bazball is still bat long time yourself we can do that in aus we weren't good enough to do it in england, our normal decks bring boundary ropes out as far as we can then force their quicks to bowl long spells is best way to beat them over here.
 
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