6-6-6 - winners and losers

[Carringbush2010]

As long as we don't go back to the Ross Lyon style of the naughties, that was truly terrible, all the top teams move the ball fast and score heavily as it is.

I'm not sure 666 will make a lot of difference, it may even hamper the weaker teams more, seeing more blowouts, which isn't a good thing.

Although almost completely ineffectual to a Lyon defence style of game plan the intent of 6-6-6 is to counteract the congestion not necessarily contest.

I completely agree that this rule will have insignificant impact, all it does is even up the contest at the centre bounce which in reality will favour ball winning mids in an attempt to reduce congestion and speedy outside mids on the spread. i:e freer flowing footy.

So yeah high quality mid teams will probably benefit and bury some teams but the "optics" will look better

 

[Football Tragic]

I think it may make a difference in the first few weeks as teams try and play the 6-6-6 positions and stick to them. After that though, coaches will quickly reposition players during play to drop players back. Other than a few seconds after each bounce, where defenders will be one on one with their opponents, I can't see how this will change the game. Good defenders will beat their opponents and move off their direct player to assist/spoil and rove. Its how good defenses work together without an extra man in the D50, that will be exposed in that brief window.

I think the ruck rule is similar - I really can't see how enabling a person to take it out of the ruck without giving prior opportunity is really going to change much. A smaller ruck can still tackle the taller ruckman, still rove to the ruckman and still prove to a greater advantage around stoppages when the ball is in dispute.

The extra 5m from kickins won't stop forwards locking the ball in either. They may have to reposition themselves 5m further up the ground and have to guard slightly more space but once the ball is in the air, tactics revert to normal.

In the end I can't seen the 6-6-6 rule, or any of the rules, making a massive change to the state of the game. If players had to stay in their third of the ground for the game, THEN that would create room around stoppages but really who would want us to become a glorified netball game.

I always think of the Cane Toad in times like this. Beware what you introduce to fix a problem. It might be worse that what you had.

 

[Tiger2709]

I think it may make a difference in the first few weeks as teams try and play the 6-6-6 positions and stick to them. Coaches will quickly reposition players during play to drop players back. Other than a few second after each bounce, where defenders will be one on one with their opponents, I can't see how this will change the game. Good defenders will beat their opponents and move off their direct player to assist/spoil and rove. Its how good defenses work together without an extra man in the D50, that will be exposed in that brief window.

I think the ruck rule is similar - I really can't see how enabling a ruck to take it out of the ruck without giving prior opportunity is really going to change much. A smaller ruck can still tackle the taller ruckman, still rove to the ruckman and still prove to a greater advantage around stoppages when the ball is in dispute.

The extra 5m from kickins won't stop forwards locking the ball in either. They may have to reposition themselves 5m further up the ground and have to guard slightly more space but once the ball is in the air, tactics revert to normal.

In the end I can't seen the 6-6-6 rule, or any of the rules, making a massive change to the state of the game. If players had to stay in their third of the ground for the game, THEN that would create room around stoppages but really who would want us to become a glorified netball game.

I always think of the Cane Toad in times like this. Beware what you introduce to fix a problem. It might be worse that what you had.

So many of these needless rule changes have harmed the game, the below the knees is a joke, one player gets a broken leg so they make a sliding in rule that now seems to be paid whenever a player touches another below the knee, penalising the hard at it player going for the ball, should only be paid if the player slides in but the rule was not really needed at all.

Way to much discretion given to umpires in our game making it confusing for all, even the silly rules protecting umpires, surely it doesn't hurt for a player to pat an ump on the back etc, all other sports allow this sort of interaction.

 

[Beutbrute]

Haven't read the thread, but you would think the winners of the 666 rule would the the demons, and the losers would be the saints.

 

[NoobPie]

I think it may make a difference in the first few weeks as teams try and play the 6-6-6 positions and stick to them. Coaches will quickly reposition players during play to drop players back. Other than a few second after each bounce, where defenders will be one on one with their opponents, I can't see how this will change the game. Good defenders will beat their opponents and move off their direct player to assist/spoil and rove. Its how good defenses work together without an extra man in the D50, that will be exposed in that brief window.

I think the ruck rule is similar - I really can't see how enabling a ruck to take it out of the ruck without giving prior opportunity is really going to change much. A smaller ruck can still tackle the taller ruckman, still rove to the ruckman and still prove to a greater advantage around stoppages when the ball is in dispute.

The extra 5m from kickins won't stop forwards locking the ball in either. They may have to reposition themselves 5m further up the ground and have to guard slightly more space but once the ball is in the air, tactics revert to normal.

In the end I can't seen the 6-6-6 rule, or any of the rules, making a massive change to the state of the game. If players had to stay in their third of the ground for the game, THEN that would create room around stoppages but really who would want us to become a glorified netball game.

I always think of the Cane Toad in times like this. Beware what you introduce to fix a problem. It might be worse that what you had.

Well you are part right. There are no "cane toad's" in the rule changes like zones or starting positions at stoppages....but I suspect the changes will have a significant impact at the margins. Of course coaches are going to adjust their tactics to work within the new rules though

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Yes, Hird was coaching.

Travis Hird ?

 

[FreoMonocle]

I always think of the Cane Toad in times like this. Beware what you introduce to fix a problem. It might be worse that what you had.

Someone please tell this to the Nuff Nuffs at AFL HQ!

 

[Pessimistic]

6. 6. 6. Not doing much for entertaining footy in Canberra at the moment

 

[TooBlue14]

If wingers start at the further est defensive point of the square that theyre allowed to, they are literally a few metres away from defensive 50. Given that most AFL players can cover 20metres in 3 seconds I dont think having 1 or 2 extras inside 50 is going to be difficult under the new rules

I actually dont think this rule will have much of an effect if any at all.

If you are trying to stem the tide you setup your two wingers defensively, as soon as the ball is bounced one can bolt bolt into position as the spare, the other can either do the same if it looks like a long kick is coming down or, if one of the mids breaks forward, he can then rush to the ball carrier closing up space.

Just bc teams arent using their wingers to affect in jlt, doesnt mean the coaches will simply sit back and allow this when it can quite easily be countered anyhow.

You clearly haven’t watched much JLT. Teams with superior clearance teams are getting first use. It’s more around the ball then the backline. But still strayed getting wingers inside def 50 and then the wings are clear.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I’m not sure I like the rules, I’ll wait and see in the season but goals seem cheaply won and the aerial ping pong adage seems apt.

 

[Pessimistic]

2019. The year of lopsided smashings returning to footy

 

[footyfan1978]

2019. The year of lopsided smashings returning to footy

Was that 2011 or 1979 or 1992 or 1983 ?

 

[tony__montana]

You clearly haven’t watched much JLT. Teams with superior clearance teams are getting first use. It’s more around the ball then the backline. But still strayed getting wingers inside def 50 and then the wings are clear.

I’m basing my argument on what will happen when the real stuff starts not jlt training runs. I noticed in our game yesterday with about 2 mins to go that we set a defensive winger and he closed the space when the hawks were running fwd. the commentators were shocked at how quickly he shut down the space probably bc no one has bothered to do it in the jlt. That one play showed that the 6-6-6 will have minimal to no affect when the real stuff starts

 

[TooBlue14]

I’m basing my argument on what will happen when the real stuff starts not jlt training runs. I noticed in our game yesterday with about 2 mins to go that we set a defensive winger and he closed the space when the hawks were running fwd. the commentators were shocked at how quickly he shut down the space probably bc no one has bothered to do it in the jlt. That one play showed that the 6-6-6 will have minimal to no affect when the real stuff starts

In Hodges press conference he mentioned they’ve been training to get players into the square at the Gabba all preseason and no one could get there in time. This will still be s major difference. I understand you can get a spare behind the ball from the defensive wing set up. I thimk players off the wing have already been doing this forever. They won’t enter the square they will pause and wait and decide to push up or go back. The changes to the square will be the big change. Cripps will have so much space and time to take clearance after clearance.

The first quarter hawks murdered you at centre square so you decided to run a player from the wing defensively. Smart teams will just get the ball deeper and quicker to dances opponent who will struggle without the freedom of being spare.

Melbourne would put two on the back of the square last year and flood the middle. No issue now. Let’s see how they go without this tactic. Didn’t look great yesterday.

The rules will have an impact. I think a huge one. I’ve seen nothing to say otherwise. People still think the JLT doesn’t show the true story. Of course it bloody does. At times the coaches test out how they will play round 1 and beyond. The port north game was an example of two sides trying to score but not try to defend. Port won the ball out of the middle more hence why they won. I know a simplistic view but I can’t be bothered going heavily into statistical detail right now. The hawks Richmond game they tried the opposite. How can they stop the centre clearance if needed. Richmond failed a lot at this on the first half but improved in the second. Not sure what hawks changes but I noticed their centre setup changed personal and did Richmond’s. I guess hawks realised what will work and hid it away. And Richmond realised what didn’t work so returned to their usuals.

 

[footyfan1978]

Those extra few seconds the gun mids have to make decisions what they going to do going forward is looking to have more impact than what I thought. Not watched much JLT yet, but a few minutes of watching Petreski-Seton and Cripps for Carlton make better use of time and space the previous Thursday night and watching Cotchin do the same for Richmond watching last few minutes last night, is only a plus and cuts up defensive systems more readily. Of course with a break in play, teams can re-set defensive systems better, but those vital few seconds from centre clearances make the better one on one players in the 50 metre arcs show how skillful they are more often. Thumbs up so far. Does not solve whole problem of congestion but at least a positive all the same. Guess it just an extension of them setting up the centre square in mid 70's before most of us watched. The winners are the attacking mids and attacking key forwards and attacking key defenders. The losers are the half forward flankers or high half forwards.

 

[DanA]

My opinion

Smaller inside mids that use the ball well (Heppell, Cotchin) become more valuable
Bigger congestion players that can't run suffer (Powell-Pepper)
Good one on one players will benefit (Yeo, Sloane)

Powerful pack marking forwards will benefit (Hawkins)
Lead up forwards will suffer (Gunston)
Players that make the most out of their chances will be more valuable (Gunston, Bruest)
Pressure crumbing forwards will benefit (Tippa)

Gorilla defenders will be less important (Jack Frost)
Talls that can play at ground level more important (Blicavs)
Small defenders that make quick decisions will benefit (converted midfielders)

 

[tony__montana]

In Hodges press conference he mentioned they’ve been training to get players into the square at the Gabba all preseason and no one could get there in time. This will still be s major difference. I understand you can get a spare behind the ball from the defensive wing set up. I thimk players off the wing have already been doing this forever. They won’t enter the square they will pause and wait and decide to push up or go back. The changes to the square will be the big change. Cripps will have so much space and time to take clearance after clearance.

The first quarter hawks murdered you at centre square so you decided to run a player from the wing defensively. Smart teams will just get the ball deeper and quicker to dances opponent who will struggle without the freedom of being spare.

Melbourne would put two on the back of the square last year and flood the middle. No issue now. Let’s see how they go without this tactic. Didn’t look great yesterday.

The rules will have an impact. I think a huge one. I’ve seen nothing to say otherwise. People still think the JLT doesn’t show the true story. Of course it bloody does. At times the coaches test out how they will play round 1 and beyond. The port north game was an example of two sides trying to score but not try to defend. Port won the ball out of the middle more hence why they won. I know a simplistic view but I can’t be bothered going heavily into statistical detail right now. The hawks Richmond game they tried the opposite. How can they stop the centre clearance if needed. Richmond failed a lot at this on the first half but improved in the second. Not sure what hawks changes but I noticed their centre setup changed personal and did Richmond’s. I guess hawks realised what will work and hid it away. And Richmond realised what didn’t work so returned to their usuals.

Watch the second half of our game where we put some work into it, not only with a defensive winger(sweeper) watching for the break away, but more so at how quickly one of our designated defenders was getting to the contest from def 50. Unless its a perfect clean clearance(which doesnt happen that often) we were getting an extra man to the contest easily - this happened on multiple occasions. Also, with 6 fwds and 6 defenders inside 50 you are naive to think it will be easy to find space for one out contests.

BTW you are misinformed to suggest that Rance plays spare. He engages in more 1 on 1 contests than any other KPD. This is fact and indisputable, he also has the best win/loss ratio of 1 on 1 contests.

 

[TooBlue14]

Watch the second half of our game where we put some work into it, not only with a defensive winger(sweeper) watching for the break away, but more so at how quickly one of our designated defenders was getting to the contest from def 50. Unless its a perfect clean clearance(which doesnt happen that often) we were getting an extra man to the contest easily - this happened on multiple occasions. Also, with 6 fwds and 6 defenders inside 50 you are naive to think it will be easy to find space for one out contests.

BTW you are misinformed to suggest that Rance plays spare. He engages in more 1 on 1 contests than any other KPD. This is fact and indisputable, he also has the best win/loss ratio of 1 on 1 contests.

The best? He’s actually ranked 4th behind Hartley, talia and Roberts but keep using opinion to inform your discussion. He’s never been ranked first for one on one contests won.
2017 stats -
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...e/news-story/19f92b904e197e75ee1db3217122cc1e

2016 stats-
https://m.afl.com.au/news/2016-08-23/the-stats-files-whos-the-top-target

And I’m not naive to think forwards to find space. But you won’t be getting a spare in front on monster forwards to take a grab. Hawthorn inside 50 not really a great example of tall forwards. But Cox killed you in prelim and will do it again in 2019. As will lots of other sides that have better clearances and talls that can mark. Maybe even round 1.

 

[evo]

2019. The year of lopsided smashings returning to footy

I think that's going to be the case too.

 

[tony__montana]

The best? He’s actually ranked 4th behind Hartley, talia and Roberts but keep using opinion to inform your discussion. He’s never been ranked first for one on one contests won.
2017 stats -
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...e/news-story/19f92b904e197e75ee1db3217122cc1e

2016 stats-
https://m.afl.com.au/news/2016-08-23/the-stats-files-whos-the-top-target

And I’m not naive to think forwards to find space. But you won’t be getting a spare in front on monster forwards to take a grab. Hawthorn inside 50 not really a great example of tall forwards. But Cox killed you in prelim and will do it again in 2019. As will lots of other sides that have better clearances and talls that can mark. Maybe even round 1.

Actually best over the past 2 seasons. But even if he was 4th - which hes not - that hardly suggests he's someone that plays free and will struggle.

I actually hoped 6-6-6 would work as it works to our advantage. Lynch and Reiwoldt up fwd, number 1 centre clearance player in the comp Dusty and the best KPD in the comp down the other end ably assisted by the best defensive outfit in the comp. We'd go alright

and we'll see about Cox and the pies this year. They had their chance and blew it, wont get another one with us, wce and the dees all peaking

 

[Final Siren]

Actually best over the past 2 seasons. But even if he was 4th - which hes not - that hardly suggests he's someone that plays free and will struggle.

I actually hoped 6-6-6 would work as it works to our advantage. Lynch and Reiwoldt up fwd, number 1 clearance player in the comp Dusty and the best KPD in the comp down the other end ably assisted by the best defensive outfit in the comp. We'd go alright

and we'll see about Cox and the pies this year. They had their chance and blew it, wont get another one with us, wce and the dees all peaking

View attachment 632506

Wow, pretty amazing numbers. Worth looking at raw number of contests neutralized, too... it's a lot more valuable to have Rance kill 174 contests or Talia kill 138 than Easton Wood's 55 or Dunn's 77.

 

[Interstater]

The big winners are the AFL.

More goals from center clearances = more ad breaks on commercial TV = more advertising dollars = more $$ to the AFL's well paid executives.

Who are the losers. The poor bastards sitting through more ads on TV.

 

[Muddiemoose]

The big winners are the AFL.

More goals from center clearances = more ad breaks on commercial TV = more advertising dollars = more $$ to the AFL's well paid executives.

Who are the losers. The poor bastards sitting through more ads on TV.

That’s the thing have there actually been more goals from clearances?

I’ve watched a few jlt games and haven’t really noticed any more or less...
If anything seen less marks inside 50 taken directly from clearances because the forward lines are a lot more congested

 

[TooBlue14]

Actually best over the past 2 seasons. But even if he was 4th - which hes not - that hardly suggests he's someone that plays free and will struggle.

I actually hoped 6-6-6 would work as it works to our advantage. Lynch and Reiwoldt up fwd, number 1 centre clearance player in the comp Dusty and the best KPD in the comp down the other end ably assisted by the best defensive outfit in the comp. We'd go alright

and we'll see about Cox and the pies this year. They had their chance and blew it, wont get another one with us, wce and the dees all peaking

View attachment 632506

Do you have stats for Dustin being number 1 clearance player in the league. Coz I was sure it was Cripps. But maybe you have a stat that looks at the last 2 years too. Which I doubt would be Dustin as he doesn’t go to as many centre clearances as Cripps.

Edit: I have the stats.
Dustin - 76 from 23 games
Cripps - 73 from 22 games
I’d say Cripps is better based on that. As total stats mean * all.

 

[biaseddustyfan]

tigers will benefit the most. cotch prestia and dusty will spend most of the year in the middle and we will have lynch and jiewoldt to kick to all day. the defenders will have to double team those 2 and risk a small getting the ball or have to beat them 1 on 1 which is unlikely. tiges will score 250 against some of the trash sides and have it easier against the top sides than they did last year