Free Agent # 6: Joe Daniher (part 1)

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Calf or no calf it looks probable Joe won’t return until May so by then he will have not played an AFL game proper for a year - he last played against the Hawks 5th May 2018. Not Gumby territory yet - but any more set backs this year and I will be starting to wonder if his body will ever hold up...


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vass44 said:
Calf or no calf it looks probable Joe won’t return until May so by then he will have not played an AFL game proper for a year - he last played against the Hawks 5th May 2018. Not Gumby territory yet - but any more set backs this year and I will be starting to wonder if his body will ever hold up...


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Click to expand...

So true - whichever way you spin it Daniher wont have played an AFL game for 12 months by the time he gets back (possibly for the Anzac day game?). Sure - theres been a couple of intra-club and JLT matches - but he hasnt looked fantastic in any of these - and I am really starting to worry he'll end up becoming another Gumby :(
 
For *s sake.

He has played 3 near complete seasons prior to this and has had an injury that we did the right thing and put him out for the rest of last season and most of the off season. He will recover from it. We did not do what others have done in the past and play him through the year with it.
Scott Gumbleton had chronic back issues plus a botched surgery.
They aren't even ******* comparable other than they both are tall forwards for Essendon.

Spare a thought for players that actually have injury issues. Docherty with multiple knee recos back to back. The Saints who have had Roberton and Carlisle ripped out of their backline for the year.

We are missing an old key back for a few weeks where we have backup and a young key forward for a few rounds again in a position where we have backup.

The season hasn't even started and you are already all doom and gloom.
 
He only averages 1.7 goals per game so far and offers zero defensive pressure when he is on the park. If he does recover, does he come straight back in? Or is a 1 goal per game forward fairly easily replaceable? The proof is in the pudding for Joe and so far it’s rubbish with no sign of change.
 
Lloyd blasts Voldt over Daniher comments/

"its pretty naive of Nick I reckon, when you are sitting at home making assumptions on a player who has done a calf, ive done exactly the same thing"

"is he calling the club liars?"

"I just reckon he needs to be very careful, questioning players and clubs on injuries unless you know all the facts
 
IggypopsTshirt said:
He only averages 1.7 goals per game so far and offers zero defensive pressure when he is on the park. If he does recover, does he come straight back in? Or is a 1 goal per game forward fairly easily replaceable? The proof is in the pudding for Joe and so far it’s rubbish with no sign of change.
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Dem rounding skillz
 
IggypopsTshirt said:
He only averages 1.7 goals per game so far and offers zero defensive pressure when he is on the park. If he does recover, does he come straight back in? Or is a 1 goal per game forward fairly easily replaceable? The proof is in the pudding for Joe and so far it’s rubbish with no sign of change.
Click to expand...
Stats are not nearly good enough without context. For a start, you might as well remove his OP affected games from the equation seeing as he was essentially a witch’s hat last year. Prior to that he had made significant improvements year upon year, a fairly prominent upward trajectory in his development, culminating in AA selection and a BnF. It’s all also very convenient for your argument to call him a one goal per game forward when it’s statistically correct to round up from 1.7 and to remove the outliers such as his OP affected games. So while you use statistics to state your case against Joe, you use them in a way that suggests statistical illiteracy.

The other thing to take into account is the excitement and energy he brings to the team. Granted, his inaccuracy can have the opposite effect but on a whole he generates a lot of that extra something.

To suggest that we can’t be a better side with a Joe Daniher in our lineup is the height of supporter madness.
 
un_eggs said:
Stats are not nearly good enough without context. For a start, you might as well remove his OP affected games from the equation seeing as he was essentially a witch’s hat last year. Prior to that he had made significant improvements year upon year, a fairly prominent upward trajectory in his development, culminating in AA selection and a BnF. It’s all also very convenient for your argument to call him a one goal per game forward when it’s statistically correct to round up from 1.7 and to remove the outliers such as his OP affected games. So while you use statistics to state your case against Joe, you use them in a way that suggests statistical illiteracy.

The other thing to take into account is the excitement and energy he brings to the team. Granted, his inaccuracy can have the opposite effect but on a whole he generates a lot of that extra something.

To suggest that we can’t be a better side with a Joe Daniher in our lineup is the height of supporter madness.
Click to expand...

Cherry picking numbers to make you feel warm and fuzzy about a famous name at the club doesn’t alter the cold hard fact that Joe Daniher has underperformed to this point in his career.
Furthermore, you infer that you wish the discuss relevant and quantifiable data and yet you follow up with; “The other thing to take into account is the excitement and energy he brings to the team. Granted, his inaccuracy can have the opposite effect but on a whole he generates a lot of that extra something.”:think:

We can be a much better side with a performing Daniher. At this point he is not a consistent, proven performer worthy of a walk up spot OR a spot in the leadership group. To suggest otherwise would be the very height of blind supporter madness;)
 
IggypopsTshirt said:
Cherry picking numbers to make you feel warm and fuzzy about a famous name at the club doesn’t alter the cold hard fact that Joe Daniher has underperformed to this point in his career.
Furthermore, you infer that you wish the discuss relevant and quantifiable data and yet you follow up with; “The other thing to take into account is the excitement and energy he brings to the team. Granted, his inaccuracy can have the opposite effect but on a whole he generates a lot of that extra something.”:think:

We can be a much better side with a performing Daniher. At this point he is not a consistent, proven performer worthy of a walk up spot OR a spot in the leadership group. To suggest otherwise would be the very height of blind supporter madness;)
Click to expand...

How has he underperformed?
Year on year growth? Tick.
Greater standing within the league's best forwards? Tick
Recognised for his best season with AA and BnF? Tick.

The basis of your entire argument is predicated on 7 games where he was hobbled and then not being on the park at all. That's not underperforming in the true sense of the word.
It's the first season he's missed since drafted.

There is nothing to suggest that he would not have continued that upward trajectory if he hadn't have been injured.

It's not like he has stagnated and has reached his peak he has been injured and has been recovering.
Or do we just write of players that are injured? They aren't performing so they must be useless.
 
IggypopsTshirt said:
Cherry picking numbers to make you feel warm and fuzzy about a famous name at the club doesn’t alter the cold hard fact that Joe Daniher has underperformed to this point in his career.
Furthermore, you infer that you wish the discuss relevant and quantifiable data and yet you follow up with; “The other thing to take into account is the excitement and energy he brings to the team. Granted, his inaccuracy can have the opposite effect but on a whole he generates a lot of that extra something.”:think:

We can be a much better side with a performing Daniher. At this point he is not a consistent, proven performer worthy of a walk up spot OR a spot in the leadership group. To suggest otherwise would be the very height of blind supporter madness;)
Click to expand...
I was never trying to make a statistical argument. I am quite happy to highlight the X factor that statistics can’t quantify. You were the one discussing quantifiable data - poorly.

And yes, we are a better side with a performing Daniher. I’m glad you acknowledge that. When he was last fully fit he was an AA selection. You stated that his contribution has been ‘rubbish’. Surely you can only be basing that opinion on his recency of injury rather than the continually improving tall KPF that we had prior to this.

I don’t think this is blind supporting but rather a clear-sighted assessment of what he was becoming and what he can still become. I don’t see any sense in losing my s**t over one of our own simply because he’s having a rough time getting back to full fitness. But yeah, I’m a deluded fan who only sees his surname... I was exactly the same with Darcy...
 

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Stopher said:
It's frightening how many supporters use the 'better team without him' line based on a handful of games well below full fitness.

How they ignore the full 2017 he had when he looked the closest thing to Buddy since the man himself, is something I struggle to understand.
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It's frightening but sadly not exactly surprising.

I sometimes wonder why the sporting and news coverage is so poor in this country.

Then you look at what fans are saying and you realise that any actual analysis containing logical thought would be wasted as many probably struggle to tie their shoelaces.
 
un_eggs said:
Stats are not nearly good enough without context. For a start, you might as well remove his OP affected games from the equation seeing as he was essentially a witch’s hat last year. Prior to that he had made significant improvements year upon year, a fairly prominent upward trajectory in his development, culminating in AA selection and a BnF. It’s all also very convenient for your argument to call him a one goal per game forward when it’s statistically correct to round up from 1.7 and to remove the outliers such as his OP affected games. So while you use statistics to state your case against Joe, you use them in a way that suggests statistical illiteracy.

The other thing to take into account is the excitement and energy he brings to the team. Granted, his inaccuracy can have the opposite effect but on a whole he generates a lot of that extra something.

To suggest that we can’t be a better side with a Joe Daniher in our lineup is the height of supporter madness.
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Remove the outlier, 2017.
 
Look Joe is exiting but frustrating at times. He’s pretty much like Stringer but without a flag to his name. Stats almost identical- Joe a better mark but Stringer offers much more defensive pressure. Both players can win a game off their own boot, but when you break it down both average only 1.7 goals a game and around 13 disposals. Let’s just hope Joes body can hold up because having both these guys fit and firing in our forward line is super important if we are going to play finals


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I watched a replay of the Geelong game last year yesterday. The game after the Carlton game when we suddenly switched into gear. Our forward set up included Stewart, Smack and Laverde with Stringer rotating in and out of the midfield. IMO the even distribution between these players, instead of over-reliance on Joe to take the speccy, was the main reason for the sudden turn around of form.
 
IggypopsTshirt said:
Cherry picking numbers to make you feel warm and fuzzy about a famous name at the club doesn’t alter the cold hard fact that Joe Daniher has underperformed to this point in his career.
Furthermore, you infer that you wish the discuss relevant and quantifiable data and yet you follow up with; “The other thing to take into account is the excitement and energy he brings to the team. Granted, his inaccuracy can have the opposite effect but on a whole he generates a lot of that extra something.”:think:

We can be a much better side with a performing Daniher. At this point he is not a consistent, proven performer worthy of a walk up spot OR a spot in the leadership group. To suggest otherwise would be the very height of blind supporter madness;)
Click to expand...
underperformed...

A (just) 25 yo key forward who, before he got injured with OP, was being talked about as being "the next Buddy Franklin", and "potentially the best player in the game", by numerous footballing professional commentators; and who before he was 24 had won a club B&F and an AA guernsey.

Underperfomed...

The goldfish syndrome of the average footy fan never ceases to amaze me
 
yodellinhank said:
Remove the outlier, 2017.
Click to expand...
the true outlier is the performance when injured.

Other than that, to claim the best season to date of a key forward who is yet to even enter his prime as is an "outlier" is so exquisitely stupid it beggars belief.

What, do you think he played above himself or something? That he accidentally almost won the coleman, gained AA and won a club B&F? Because either you do, or you don't really understand what "outlier" means. What seems more likely is that you're just happy to misuse a statistical term to either troll or push a typical agenda, given you're happy to ignore the data trend and call data that lies within the natural forecasting zone to be an outlier...
 
Lance Uppercut said:
the true outlier is the performance when injured.

Other than that, to claim the best season to date of a key forward who is yet to even enter his prime as is an "outlier" is so exquisitely stupid it beggars belief.

What, do you think he played above himself or something? That he accidentally almost won the coleman, gained AA and won a club B&F? Because either you do, or you don't really understand what "outlier" means. What seems more likely is that you're just happy to misuse a statistical term to either troll or push a typical agenda, given you're happy to ignore the data trend and call data that lies within the natural forecasting zone to be an outlier...
Click to expand...
I'm living in the world where Joe is injured.
 
IIRC before the (OP affected) Freo game last year he'd kicked goals in 40+ games straight
mostly 2 goals with more higher than lower
 
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