Player Watch # 6: Joe Daniher - Expected to train with the group post-Christmas - 28/11

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You just can't say things like that. Injuries are rarely biomechanical in origin and rest is useless for conditions that are only painful some of the time.

In fact, at some point, physios will realize that pain = healing and pulling up sore after a training session should be deemed as a good thing for players with chronic problems. The players should be running when ever they're pain free and meditating when the pain comes.

Here's a question. Why don't gazelles ever pull a hammy (or whatever muscles they have)? They don't do warmups before they're chased by a lion.

The difference between humans and other animals is that we are far more conscious. We over analyze ourselves when we get an injury.
Look, surely you can understand the frustration here .Considering the region in the body where he was struggling I’d suggest that a conservative assessment is warranted knowing what we do about OP these days. Anyhoo, I fully admit to not being an expert and may be completely out of line in questioning the fitness team. Let’s hope it’s all just paranoia from us fans and that he’s heading in the right direction.

Oh, and us humans are weird upright bipedal anomalies that shouldn’t be. Our hamstrings are just resisting our longing for the transterrestrial.
 

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Westlo

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One of my mates who is not an Essendon supporter said Joe Daniher is a good pack mark but other than one good year he is extremely over-rated.
He is a bit of a stats nut and has emailed me Joe's stats for 2017, and his stats without 2017. He argues he's not even in the best 10 forwards in the comp and I must say - looking at the stats he has got a very valid argument.....

Some quick stats for Joe Daniher in 2017;-

games - 23, ave disposals - 15.3, marks - 6.7, goals - 2.8, tackles - 1.4
Joe kicked 65 goals that year (3rd in coleman), was 6th in comp marks inside 50, and 7th in comp total contested marks

Joe Daniher without 2017

games - 77, ave disposals - 11.8, marks - 5.6, goals - 1.5, tackles - 1.2


I know I am guilty of man love for this bloke - but I am starting to wonder are we all over-rating him a bit?
Can you ask for his opinion on Joel embiids first four years in the nba?
 

ant555

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I’d suggest that any player who has lost his core strength due to groin issues should be spelled for a bit. I’m aware that I wouldn’t know all the ins and outs but blind Freddy could see that he was unable to push through nor contribute in any meaningful way. Then to play him in 2 games within less than a week around Anzac Day was just mind-boggling really. It’s not any implication I’m making it’s a straight out statement, he should’ve been overruled if he was saying he was good to go because he obviously wasn’t. .
And the player says he is right to play and trains during the week, what then. OP can be like that, you think you are on top of it and it flares again which is why it is hard to treat with all the information. If blind Freddy can see it then all clubs would have a handle on it. They do not.
 

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And the player says he is right to play and trains during the week, what then. OP can be like that, you think you are on top of it and it flares again which is why it is hard to treat with all the information. If blind Freddy can see it then all clubs would have a handle on it. They do not.
It’s all good Ant, I get what you’re saying. Of course you need to put your faith in the experts. It’s frustrating as a supporter though to see your gun forward playing as a shadow of himself for 6 or so games in a row. You have to admit that it ‘appears’ like they’ve given Joe too much control over the experts though which was my concern. Not saying that this is the whole truth of it but that is how it comes across.
 

Towno78

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Look, surely you can understand the frustration here .Considering the region in the body where he was struggling I’d suggest that a conservative assessment is warranted knowing what we do about OP these days. Anyhoo, I fully admit to not being an expert and may be completely out of line in questioning the fitness team. Let’s hope it’s all just paranoia from us fans and that he’s heading in the right direction.

Oh, and us humans are weird upright bipedal anomalies that shouldn’t be. Our hamstrings are just resisting our longing for the transterrestrial.
It's fair enough to be frustrated, JD was mismanaged. In hindsight that is clear.
But you can't at the time say with 100% certainty what the best course of action is. You certainly can't put a blanket over everyone with OP and say they must rest because it is OP. That is being very naive to the number of players in the comp with OP and being managed fairly successfully.
 

IHurley

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Look, surely you can understand the frustration here .Considering the region in the body where he was struggling I’d suggest that a conservative assessment is warranted knowing what we do about OP these days. Anyhoo, I fully admit to not being an expert and may be completely out of line in questioning the fitness team. Let’s hope it’s all just paranoia from us fans and that he’s heading in the right direction.

Oh, and us humans are weird upright bipedal anomalies that shouldn’t be. Our hamstrings are just resisting our longing for the transterrestrial.
I get the frustration. And the experts are not infallible - not even close. But I think we have it backwards. What is the point of resting for a condition that is only sporadically painful? It doesn't make any sense.

And as for the bipedalism I think you will find that kangaroos do plenty of movement on just two legs. Emus too.

Like I said, my theory is that if the player is not in pain, they should be running. The moment they feel pain they should stop and instead relax their mind. This is what any animal - four legged or two - would do.
 

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yodellinhank

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Joe’s trajectory had been on a constant incline year after year until his OP. Nothing wrong with the status we hold for him. Everything we love about Joe is what he is capable of. So long as he was improving it was all good and well warranted.
Has his career inclined to its highest point?
 

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It's fair enough to be frustrated, JD was mismanaged. In hindsight that is clear.
But you can't at the time say with 100% certainty what the best course of action is. You certainly can't put a blanket over everyone with OP and say they must rest because it is OP. That is being very naive to the number of players in the comp with OP and being managed fairly successfully.
There are players who probably have slight OP who play through it with minimal drop in output. They get away with it. The difference is that Jo was noticeably playing at something like 50% capacity and, knowing that OP responds to rest, could’ve been pulled sooner. Im not really saying all players must rest. I’m more saying that players who are noticeably hampered in output by a groin grumble should be rested. Ant referred to players feeling good at training and putting their hand up to play. Well, I’d say that if you’ve played a couple of hampered games you probably shouldn’t front up again and again and again.
 
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My mate is at it again - he's even made a list of current key forwards and their average goals per game. Daniher currently sits 12th which shocked me a little;-


1. Franklin ave goals per game: 3.2, games: 290
2. Josh Kennedy ave goals per game: 2.5, games: 221
3. Jeremy Cameron ave goals per game: 2.5, games: 130
4. Jack Riewoldt ave goals per game: 2.4, games: 249
5. Tex Walker ave goals per game: 2.3, games: 167

6. Ben Brown ave goals per game: 2.2, games: 99
7. Tom Hawkins ave goals per game: 2.1, games: 232
8. Jesse Hogan ave goals per game: 2.1, games: 71
9. Josh Jenkins ave goals per game: 2, games: 136
10. Jack Darling ave goals per game: 1.9, games: 172

11. Tom Lynch ave goals per game: 1.9, games: 131
12. Daniher ave goals per game: 1.8, games: 100


He says that doesn't even include players like Betts, Gunston, Menzel & Bruest all who have higher goal averages than Joe.
The stats really dont lie, and throw in Joe's OP issues maybe I - and probably a lot of other Essendon supporters really have and really do over rate and over hype Joe Daniher :(
 
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eth-dog

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My mate is at it again - he's even made a list of current key forwards and their average goals per game. Daniher currently sits 12th which shocked me a little;-


1. Franklin ave goals per game: 3.2, games: 290
2. Josh Kennedy ave goals per game: 2.5, games: 221
3. Jeremy Cameron ave goals per game: 2.5, games: 130
4. Jack Riewoldt ave goals per game: 2.4, games: 249
5. Tex Walker ave goals per game: 2.3, games: 167

6. Ben Brown ave goals per game: 2.2, games: 99
7. Tom Hawkins ave goals per game: 2.1, games: 232
8. Jesse Hogan ave goals per game: 2.1, games: 71
9. Josh Jenkins ave goals per game: 2, games: 136
10. Jack Darling ave goals per game: 1.9, games: 172

11. Tom Lynch ave goals per game: 1.9, games: 131
12. Daniher ave goals per game: 1.8, games: 100


He says that doesn't even include players like Betts, Gunston, Menzel & Bruest all who have higher goal averages than Joe.
The stats really dont lie, and throw in Joe's OP issues maybe I - and probably a lot of other Essendon supporters really have and really do over rate and over hype Joe Daniher :(
The stats do lie. Other than Hogan, Lynch and Cameron, who there is a young key forward who had to establish themselves and become the #1 forward very quickly? Using players like Jenkins is laughable, he got traded into one of the best functioning forward lines as a 22 year old as probably 2nd or 3rd fiddle whilst he was relatively unknown. I would be shocked if by the time he has 150 games he'd be behind the likes of Darling, Hawkins and Walker at the equivalent games played
 
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