Player Watch #7: Ben Lennon

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Ancient Tiger said:
My Christmas wish: Lennon to have a few ripper games at the start of 2017 and then see all the keyboard warriors criticising him scatter for cover......
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Why would we scatter? We all want every player at Richmond to succeed but unfortunately many don't. We are just pointing out that this guy has like many others at Tigerland, delivered jack s**t and is on borrowed time. Comes across as just another list clogger not delivering up to the required standard regardless of the supposed talent he has. We sceptics would be rapt if he delivers but don't believe it will happen.

By the way he has about a dozen mates at RFC that I believe should also be on their last chance. List cloggers and I don't want to have to name them in this thread. Start a who are list cloggers thread and we'll have enough to talk about until round One.
 
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I just think the internet perception of Ben Lennon has kind of become an echo chamber.

The guy is a full-time athlete.

He burns more exercise calories in a week than we all would in a year.

He's in the gym multiple days a week, running time trials every week, doing sprints with a running coach, and flogging himself on the track 5 days a week. And then he's obviously being smart with his nutrition, which is a pretty meticulous thing to do, considering his body shape is excellent.

"He's got an attitude problems"

"He's lazy"

People don't know why he hasn't fulfilled his potential yet so they convince each other it's something like that.

His injuries and illnesses are genuine. If he doesn't make it, it'll be due to his physical traits being unable to translate to AFL level, not necessarily due to laziness. He's a relatively slow, un-athletic forward, remember. Especially compared to our Bolton/Rioli combination that we chose in the following years, who are the polar opposite types of forwards. If he doesn't succeed, I think it'll be more about his unfortunate athletic traits than his mindset. His sister is a professional golfer, so his family is obviously switched on mentally and gifted physically, it's just he's so slow, which is why he got a running coach. People compare his skillset to Deledio's, but Deledio had blistering pace.

It's time to re-think the assumptions that get parroted around about him on here.
 
Rance2Mewtwo said:
I just think the internet perception of Ben Lennon has kind of become an echo chamber.

The guy is a full-time athlete.

He burns more exercise calories in a week than we all would in a year.

He's in the gym multiple days a week, running time trials every week, doing sprints with a running coach, and flogging himself on the track 5 days a week. And then he's obviously being smart with his nutrition, which is a pretty meticulous thing to do, considering his body shape is excellent.

"He's got an attitude problems"

"He's lazy"

People don't know why he hasn't fulfilled his potential yet so they convince each other it's something like that.

His injuries and illnesses are genuine. If he doesn't make it, it'll be due to his physical traits being unable to translate to AFL level, not necessarily due to laziness. He's a relatively slow, un-athletic forward, remember. Especially compared to our Bolton/Rioli combination that we chose in the following years, who are the polar opposite types of forwards. If he doesn't succeed, I think it'll be more about his unfortunate athletic traits than his mindset. His sister is a professional golfer, so his family is obviously switched on mentally and gifted physically, it's just he's so slow, which is why he got a running coach. People compare his skillset to Deledio's, but Deledio had blistering pace.

It's time to re-think the assumptions that get parroted around about him on here.
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I dont buy this

He is 1 of 44 players on the list that also do what you mentioned but it doesnt stop them from doing all the things required by the coaches at vfl level and none of the others have requested a trade in his 3rd year after 1 year earlier putting his hand out for a significant increase in his new contract.

refarding his speed, the player that went just 1 selection after him is even slower and similar size but a midfielder, Patrick Cripps
I would even say that he is even less athletic, But the kid busts his ass and never complains

great argument , But thats not Lennon
 

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Rance2Mewtwo said:
I just think the internet perception of Ben Lennon has kind of become an echo chamber.

The guy is a full-time athlete.

He burns more exercise calories in a week than we all would in a year.

He's in the gym multiple days a week, running time trials every week, doing sprints with a running coach, and flogging himself on the track 5 days a week. And then he's obviously being smart with his nutrition, which is a pretty meticulous thing to do, considering his body shape is excellent.

"He's got an attitude problems"

"He's lazy"

People don't know why he hasn't fulfilled his potential yet so they convince each other it's something like that.

His injuries and illnesses are genuine. If he doesn't make it, it'll be due to his physical traits being unable to translate to AFL level, not necessarily due to laziness. He's a relatively slow, un-athletic forward, remember. Especially compared to our Bolton/Rioli combination that we chose in the following years, who are the polar opposite types of forwards. If he doesn't succeed, I think it'll be more about his unfortunate athletic traits than his mindset. His sister is a professional golfer, so his family is obviously switched on mentally and gifted physically, it's just he's so slow, which is why he got a running coach. People compare his skillset to Deledio's, but Deledio had blistering pace.

It's time to re-think the assumptions that get parroted around about him on here.
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You may be spot on here. He comes across as lazy, however, it may be that he is not athletic enough to cut it at the top level.
 
THE_GUN said:
refarding his speed, the player that went just 1 selection after him is even slower and similar size but a midfielder, Patrick Cripps
I would even say that he is even less athletic, But the kid busts his ass and never complains
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Cripps is a tall, strong inside midfielder, which are perfect physical traits for his role.

Lennon's physical traits are a disadvantage up forward. His classy traits (kicking / marking) compensate for his physical traits. I think he's one player who could save his career with Hardwick's "move him to the backline" philosophy actually, as long as he doesn't play deep, where Eddie Betts types will run rings around him (and many others!)
 
What I don't understand is that Lennon was a known commodity to Richmond.

He trained with the club for a couple of weeks so they must of been very aware of his running limitations.

Clearly they picked him regardless because they saw something special in the rest of his game .

What I don't understand is what has changed?

If they don't want to play him because he is slow, what has changed? He was always slow.
 
THE_GUN said:
So rather than sitting on the fence and potting players after their gone, What was your view on Yarran,Townsend,Moore or any player that has walked into the club.

Ohh thats correct you would like to wait and see which way it goes then pot the club,players,administration, coaches etc But all after the event rather than come out and say how you feel .

Im taking this as you are a supporter of Lennon and Believe that he will make the grade
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That they would be huge busts. Not all of us are johnny hindsights, sadly a fair amount of us can see RFC * ups coming a mile away.
 
Rance2Mewtwo said:
I just think the internet perception of Ben Lennon has kind of become an echo chamber.

The guy is a full-time athlete.

He burns more exercise calories in a week than we all would in a year.

He's in the gym multiple days a week, running time trials every week, doing sprints with a running coach, and flogging himself on the track 5 days a week. And then he's obviously being smart with his nutrition, which is a pretty meticulous thing to do, considering his body shape is excellent.

"He's got an attitude problems"

"He's lazy"

People don't know why he hasn't fulfilled his potential yet so they convince each other it's something like that.

His injuries and illnesses are genuine. If he doesn't make it, it'll be due to his physical traits being unable to translate to AFL level, not necessarily due to laziness. He's a relatively slow, un-athletic forward, remember. Especially compared to our Bolton/Rioli combination that we chose in the following years, who are the polar opposite types of forwards. If he doesn't succeed, I think it'll be more about his unfortunate athletic traits than his mindset. His sister is a professional golfer, so his family is obviously switched on mentally and gifted physically, it's just he's so slow, which is why he got a running coach. People compare his skillset to Deledio's, but Deledio had blistering pace.

It's time to re-think the assumptions that get parroted around about him on here.
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What about his on-ground and game-day efforts ... LAZY!
 

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Hank Heavenly said:
I'm actually interested in your football CV...

I get we are all allowed an opinion, but your are awfully strong in negative reflection of players on our list and seem very quick to judge character etc...
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Played VFL under-19s, wasn't good enough to kick on and made a decent career around the Victorian and SA country leagues.
Question for you Heavenly Hank? Which players have I been wrong on?
Will two more years of next to nothingness from Lennon before being moved on convince you I was right?
It takes a good footballer to make his way onto an AFL list, some are just not cut out for it. Plenty I have seen come down the turnpike for Richmond haven't made a fist of it.
For a whole bunch of question marks to remain over Lennon re character, commitment and potential going into his fourth year as a first round draft pick says plenty and odds are he won't make it.
Rioli showed more in one year as a first round draft pick than Lennon has in three. Mediocre performers like BEllis and Conca showed m,ore in years 1-3 than Lennon. He is not without talent, but geez, a guy who has played one standout game among 18 in three seasons and asks for a pay rise after year two (a year in which he couldn't make our finals side - arguably he should have) - sends all the wrong messages.
I know many on here claim to have an insider at the club they glean info from - and I am one (choose to believe, okay if you don't) - but he assures me Lennon does not simply work hard enough on game day. But that would be just confirming what anyone with half a clue about Aussie rules football can see for themselves.
 
Goldust said:
I was speaking in general terms.
Whether Dimma loves, hates, or otherwise Lennon is irrelevant - coaches will always have their favourites.
I have heard Dimma has little time for and communication with some players, again this is likely truthful and not out of the ordinary.
Wallace before him was accused of the same thing, while coaches at rival clubs have been accused of the same.
It shows a weakness in the coach, who is supposed to be THE leader and be able to build relationships.
Lennon will largely live and die by his own performances, which - let's be honest - haven't been up to scratch, but I compare Lennon's situation to Vickery's, which at times were not up to scratch, yet one was gifted games. I can see how it grates.
Sometimes though you need to be the bigger person and just get on with it. I don;t agree with some of my superiors at work, but I knuckle down and do what I have to do and get by without them having to influence me too much. If Lennon plays the "poor me' card his career will end without a whimper.
I digress, as far as Dimma goes, this club will take a turn for the better when he goes, no doubt! His 2016 effort was among the worst coaching efforts I've seen at AFL level ... below what Leppa dished up at Brisbane and below the debacle that was Mark Neeld at Melbourne and Tim Watson at St Kilda. The way he let the season peter out and made a mockery of his press conferences and clubs should have been grounds for instant dismissal.
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I agree that not all players and coaches have a good relationship for one reason or another.Mostly like you touched on some believe others get better treatment than others.But when your in charge of 42 people with only 22 spots up for grabs not everyone is going to be happy.With Lennon who knows it could be anything.Just look at Xavier Richards,Came across in a press conference that every club passed on him.
As for Dimma,s performance.Like Lennon its all upto him otherwise either/both will be gone.
 
Goldust said:
What about his on-ground and game-day efforts ... LAZY!
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If you're 10 metres from the contest and you're stuffed and slow, and an opponent is 11 metres from a contest and half-stuffed but quick as lightning, then it's a race to the ball.

Is Lennon lazy for losing the contest?

I'm not saying he doesn't need to work harder - he does, because he needs to overcome physical limitations.

It's not necessarily a sign of mental weakness like you and others seem to suggest. I think some people just don't like him for asking for more money, and they've made up their mind about his mindset purely on that.
 
Rance2Mewtwo said:
I'm not saying he doesn't need to work harder on-field. I'm pointing out that his physical limitations are a bigger factor that people on here are discussing, and they do in fact significantly contribute to being "lazy" on-field.

If you're 10 metres from the contest and you're stuffed, and an opponent is 11 metres from a contest and half-stuffed, then it's a race to the ball.

Is Lennon lazy for losing the contest?
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DON'T discount the 'will' or 'want' factor!
 
Rance2Mewtwo said:
I just think the internet perception of Ben Lennon has kind of become an echo chamber.

The guy is a full-time athlete.

He burns more exercise calories in a week than we all would in a year.

He's in the gym multiple days a week, running time trials every week, doing sprints with a running coach, and flogging himself on the track 5 days a week. And then he's obviously being smart with his nutrition, which is a pretty meticulous thing to do, considering his body shape is excellent.

"He's got an attitude problems"

"He's lazy"

People don't know why he hasn't fulfilled his potential yet so they convince each other it's something like that.

His injuries and illnesses are genuine. If he doesn't make it, it'll be due to his physical traits being unable to translate to AFL level, not necessarily due to laziness. He's a relatively slow, un-athletic forward, remember. Especially compared to our Bolton/Rioli combination that we chose in the following years, who are the polar opposite types of forwards. If he doesn't succeed, I think it'll be more about his unfortunate athletic traits than his mindset. His sister is a professional golfer, so his family is obviously switched on mentally and gifted physically, it's just he's so slow, which is why he got a running coach. People compare his skillset to Deledio's, but Deledio had blistering pace.

It's time to re-think the assumptions that get parroted around about him on here.
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Asks for a trade 2yrs in a row>>>>gets no interest>>>sends out a i'm gonna knuckle down letter>>>Still no interest.No assumptions.
 
blaisee said:
What I don't understand is that Lennon was a known commodity to Richmond.

He trained with the club for a couple of weeks so they must of been very aware of his running limitations.

Clearly they picked him regardless because they saw something special in the rest of his game .

What I don't understand is what has changed?

If they don't want to play him because he is slow, what has changed? He was always slow.
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Players liked him? I dunno lol
 
tiger_of_old said:
Asks for a trade 2yrs in a row>>>>gets no interest>>>sends out a i'm gonna knuckle down letter>>>Still no interest.No assumptions.
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Plenty of assumptions in there and like I said, people don't like him on here mostly because of his trade requests - it clouds their ability to judge the reasons behind his form.

I have a feeling Richmond believe he's not good enough. He believes he's talented, therefore in his mind he's either not as talented as he thinks he is or he needs to work harder. Result? He thinks he needs to work harder.

My problem is supporters continually saying he's lazy when he's just had a great mini-preseason during his holiday and come back in excellent condition.

Mentally, he's fine. It's all about overcoming physical limitations for the position Ben was recruited to play IMO. Half back would be a better choice.

He kicked 1 goal in the 6 games leading up to the 2014 final while playing as a forward in his second year.

Rioli kicked a goal a game in his last 6 games in his first year.

Corey Ellis is an equally poor athlete and will need to play inside if he's to make an impact IMO.

Our recruiters tried to draft "footballers" for a few years, picking up "safe" talents with below average physical traits.

In the last couple of years it seems we've learnt from this and gone the other way by recruiting great athletes.

In the modern game, a rigid game plan means physical traits hold greater value than traditional football traits IMO. You need to run fast and hard to maintain team structure when you don't have the ball. Then you win the ball and you need to break into space to use the skills you were recruited for. All while you're competing against big athletic defenders within a team web structure. It's too simplistic to label someone as "lazy" if their traits don't translate well into that situation.

There will always be room for footballers, but physical limitations should be taken very seriously.
 
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I think it's not right to bag the players when the fault lies with recruiting.

Ben's young, he's training hard & having a crack, let's judge him at round 1
 
Goldust said:
Played VFL under-19s, wasn't good enough to kick on and made a decent career around the Victorian and SA country leagues.
Question for you Heavenly Hank? Which players have I been wrong on?
Will two more years of next to nothingness from Lennon before being moved on convince you I was right?
It takes a good footballer to make his way onto an AFL list, some are just not cut out for it. Plenty I have seen come down the turnpike for Richmond haven't made a fist of it.
For a whole bunch of question marks to remain over Lennon re character, commitment and potential going into his fourth year as a first round draft pick says plenty and odds are he won't make it.
Rioli showed more in one year as a first round draft pick than Lennon has in three. Mediocre performers like BEllis and Conca showed m,ore in years 1-3 than Lennon. He is not without talent, but geez, a guy who has played one standout game among 18 in three seasons and asks for a pay rise after year two (a year in which he couldn't make our finals side - arguably he should have) - sends all the wrong messages.
I know many on here claim to have an insider at the club they glean info from - and I am one (choose to believe, okay if you don't) - but he assures me Lennon does not simply work hard enough on game day. But that would be just confirming what anyone with half a clue about Aussie rules football can see for themselves.
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I know a few people in those leagues, who did you play for?

I'm not saying your wrong or right...

All I'm saying is, that your opinion, whether from an inside source or not is quite strong or harsh on a kid who's what 20?

Look you may be 100% right at the end of the day, but I think there is enough evidence to suggest the kid hasn't been afforded the best crack at it yet (whether that's being a sub all the time early, stiff on selection, illness or injury)...

To sit here and judge his character without being involved with the kid personally is just keyboard warrior stuff IMO...
I'm pretty sure you've made the point on your beliefs, yet you still feel the need to argue with anyone who has a differing view.

Me, I think he has all the talent to make it, I think he does need to work harder to make it count, but he may just be immature...
He may also just not be good enough, but don't forget, it was not his fault we picked him so high in the draft, so your expectations on him due to the fact he is a high draft selection are not his doing nor fault.
 
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