Player Watch #7: Ben Lennon

Remove this Banner Ad

Rubber Hips said:
Fair point
I'd also say there is added frustration with Ben because he wanted out this and last year
It sticks in my craw a bit so I hope he can come good...and be good consistently
Click to expand...

This is a great point. People were already a little frustrated at his development but to then hear that he wanted out really added fuel to the already dangerously growing fire. I think people confuse speed with lack of intent. I think he is just not quick off the mark which means he struggles to break away from opponents and to stop opposition defenders running off him. I think he and the club knows this which is also why he decided to get the running coach this off season.

I feel that the club drafted him for his strength - beautiful user of the ball and excellent mark - but did not appreciate the flaws that his speed could magnify in today's game of rebounding defenders. Increasing his endurance will allow him to narrow the gap as games progress rather than exemplify them but I think its time for the club to try him deeper in the forward line rather than on the F50 arch. Doing this would enable him to use his marking, goal kicking and clever ball use and minimize the impact of his opponent running off him.

He's a real enigma to me. I can see what he could offer the club but I also see his deficiencies. I really don't like the fact that he was known to complain about lack of opportunities and also looked for opportunity elsewhere rather than force his way into the team through hard work.

I am optimistic about his chances but I am very pleased that we recruited small/medium forwards to develop in that roles in the future regardless.
 
Football Tragic said:
This is a great point. People were already a little frustrated at his development but to then hear that he wanted out really added fuel to the already dangerously growing fire. I think people confuse speed with lack of intent. I think he is just not quick off the mark which means he struggles to break away from opponents and to stop opposition defenders running off him. I think he and the club knows this which is also why he decided to get the running coach this off season.

I feel that the club drafted him for his strength - beautiful user of the ball and excellent mark - but did not appreciate the flaws that his speed could magnify in today's game of rebounding defenders. Increasing his endurance will allow him to narrow the gap as games progress rather than exemplify them but I think its time for the club to try him deeper in the forward line rather than on the F50 arch. Doing this would enable him to use his marking, goal kicking and clever ball use and minimize the impact of his opponent running off him.

He's a real enigma to me. I can see what he could offer the club but I also see his deficiencies. I really don't like the fact that he was known to complain about lack of opportunities and also looked for opportunity elsewhere rather than force his way into the team through hard work.

I am optimistic about his chances but I am very pleased that we recruited small/medium forwards to develop in that roles in the future regardless.
Click to expand...

Football Tragic said:
This is a great point. People were already a little frustrated at his development but to then hear that he wanted out really added fuel to the already dangerously growing fire. I think people confuse speed with lack of intent. I think he is just not quick off the mark which means he struggles to break away from opponents and to stop opposition defenders running off him. I think he and the club knows this which is also why he decided to get the running coach this off season.

I feel that the club drafted him for his strength - beautiful user of the ball and excellent mark - but did not appreciate the flaws that his speed could magnify in today's game of rebounding defenders. Increasing his endurance will allow him to narrow the gap as games progress rather than exemplify them but I think its time for the club to try him deeper in the forward line rather than on the F50 arch. Doing this would enable him to use his marking, goal kicking and clever ball use and minimize the impact of his opponent running off him.

He's a real enigma to me. I can see what he could offer the club but I also see his deficiencies. I really don't like the fact that he was known to complain about lack of opportunities and also looked for opportunity elsewhere rather than force his way into the team through hard work.

I am optimistic about his chances but I am very pleased that we recruited small/medium forwards to develop in that roles in the future regardless.
Click to expand...

Solid double post 5 hours apart
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Rance2Mewtwo said:
Plenty of assumptions in there and like I said, people don't like him on here mostly because of his trade requests - it clouds their ability to judge the reasons behind his form.

I have a feeling Richmond believe he's not good enough. He believes he's talented, therefore in his mind he's either not as talented as he thinks he is or he needs to work harder. Result? He thinks he needs to work harder.

My problem is supporters continually saying he's lazy when he's just had a great mini-preseason during his holiday and come back in excellent condition.

Mentally, he's fine. It's all about overcoming physical limitations for the position Ben was recruited to play IMO. Half back would be a better choice.

He kicked 1 goal in the 6 games leading up to the 2014 final while playing as a forward in his second year.

Rioli kicked a goal a game in his last 6 games in his first year.

Corey Ellis is an equally poor athlete and will need to play inside if he's to make an impact IMO.

Our recruiters tried to draft "footballers" for a few years, picking up "safe" talents with below average physical traits.

In the last couple of years it seems we've learnt from this and gone the other way by recruiting great athletes.

In the modern game, a rigid game plan means physical traits hold greater value than traditional football traits IMO. You need to run fast and hard to maintain team structure when you don't have the ball. Then you win the ball and you need to break into space to use the skills you were recruited for. All while you're competing against big athletic defenders within a team web structure. It's too simplistic to label someone as "lazy" if their traits don't translate well into that situation.

There will always be room for footballers, but physical limitations should be taken very seriously.
Click to expand...
I think your mostly spot on sadly. I think we did go with safe first round picks but they were flawed in that Ellis has no elite traits other than a great left peg and doesn't even seem that natural a footballer either. When I think of pure footballers I think of guys like Lloyd or Sam Mitchell that just understand the game. Basically FJ is a ******* and the reason our list stinks.
 
Ancient Tiger said:
I think Leppa is perfect for Ben. A senior coach telling him that he needs to do what everyone else has been telling him to do.
They can't all be wrong.

I really think, barring injury, he will have his best season in 2017. Maybe he'll really improve 300% lol. :D
Click to expand...

Could he possibly have a worse season ?

Lets hope the new coaches,Kick up the a55 with no other club being interested,Better pre season , no injuries
The scare of losing his AFL career wakes him up and has a great season and has a good career but im not putting my house on it

Everybody talks about his pro's but lets look at some of his negatives
3.20sec/20m - bottom 20%
standing vertical - bottom 10%
agility - bottom 5%
3km - bottom 25%
 
Last edited:
Ancient Tiger said:
I think Leppa is perfect for Ben. A senior coach telling him that he needs to do what everyone else has been telling him to do.
They can't all be wrong.

I really think, barring injury, he will have his best season in 2017. Maybe he'll really improve 300% lol. :D
Click to expand...

Somebody whispering in his ear that he isn't getting picked because the coach doesn't like him will help too ;)
 
THE_GUN said:
Could he possibly have a worse season ?

Everybody talks about his pro's but lets look at some of his negatives
3.20sec/20m - bottom 20%
standing vertical - bottom 10%
agility - bottom 5%
3km - bottom 25%
Click to expand...

I'm surprized about the vertical leap - always seems to spring and mark at the right time.That's pretty damning really. Explains a lot too. Has a lot to overcome then. Will take a real determination to make it. He can do it and seems to be making all the right noises this preseason.
 
THE_GUN said:
Could he possibly have a worse season ?

Lets hope the new coaches,Kick up the a55 with no other club being interested,Better pre season , no injuries
The scare of losing his AFL career wakes him up and has a great season and has a good career but im not putting my house on it

Everybody talks about his pro's but lets look at some of his negatives
3.20sec/20m - bottom 20%
standing vertical - bottom 10%
agility - bottom 5%
3km - bottom 25%
Click to expand...
So he's definitely not going to be adept at catching butterflies!
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Football Tragic said:
I'm surprized about the vertical leap - always seems to spring and mark at the right time.That's pretty damning really. Explains a lot too. Has a lot to overcome then. Will take a real determination to make it. He can do it and seems to be making all the right noises this preseason.
Click to expand...

Given he was AA as a junior i think it also speaks about his ability to be able to perform at such a level given deficiencies, obviously his timing plays a part in his marking again given his limitations.

As long as he wants it and gets himself fit i can see him playing a lot of games and given his limited opportunities thus far for whatever reason that should increase his appetite!!!
 
Rance2Mewtwo said:
Some feedback for you as a person.

In order to genuinely and honestly have a productive debate or discussion with people holding differing views to your own, the first thing you can do is present your own argument without emotion, insults, accusations, finger-pointing, and general rudeness.

Just present your argument and let the strength of your argument win the debate for you, it's as simple as that.

I've argued that in addition to his injuries and illness, Ben's physical limitations for his position offer a better explanation for his slow start to his career compared to the perception that he is lazy and isn't trying hard enough.

I've made the point that he hired a running coach during his holidays.

I've made the point that he's going above and beyond with his training and came back in excellent condition on day one for preseason.

You have failed to address my argument.

Instead, you've gone off on a tangent about people not sticking to the argument.
Click to expand...
You'd be best served not lecturing people, pal!
 
THE_GUN said:
Could he possibly have a worse season ?

Lets hope the new coaches,Kick up the a55 with no other club being interested,Better pre season , no injuries
The scare of losing his AFL career wakes him up and has a great season and has a good career but im not putting my house on it

Everybody talks about his pro's but lets look at some of his negatives
3.20sec/20m - bottom 20%
standing vertical - bottom 10%
agility - bottom 5%
3km - bottom 25%
Click to expand...
Combine results are irrelevant
 
RememberRoyce said:
Reported to the fun police.

No emotion on bigfooty....ok!
Click to expand...

I'm specifically talking about the context of getting your point across in a back and forth argument, not the general casual discussion like most of big footy.

You've hastily applied your dislike of fun police to my post when it doesn't apply... But I don't mind, I share your dislike of fun police! ;)
 
Rance2Mewtwo said:
In the modern game, a rigid game plan means physical traits hold greater value than traditional football traits IMO. You need to run fast and hard to maintain team structure when you don't have the ball. Then you win the ball and you need to break into space to use the skills you were recruited for. All while you're competing against big athletic defenders within a team web structure. It's too simplistic to label someone as "lazy" if their traits don't translate well into that situation.

There will always be room for footballers, but physical limitations should be taken very seriously.
Click to expand...
See I disagree.

If you're good enough and committed enough, there will always be room for traditional footballers. A good case in point would be the Bulldogs.
 
Goldust said:
You'd be best served not lecturing people, pal!
Click to expand...

Well, evidently you're right about that.

If I want to help you improve the way you debate, then I chose the wrong method, by lecturing you.

Clearly I didn't influence you at all.

Shame for you, because my argument is golden and you chose not to do anything about it.
 
HumanMeatball said:
Again in an afl environment starting athletic traits are irrelevant. An afl environment can easily fix them
Click to expand...

No, there is obviously a continuum of traits and the lower you are on the spectrum, the harder you need to work and the smarter you need to be to compensate for your athletic disadvantages.

The most brilliant footballer ever wouldn't get drafted if he had a beep test of 7.2 and a burst time of 3.80.

I don't know where Lennon fits in the spectrum of athletic traits for his position as a forward.

Is he in the bottom 10%?

Deledio would be in the top 5%, athletically, by comparison.

Lennon can become a great player, but it'll take time and I don't think you can say "starting athletic traits are irrelevant". Yes, they can be improved, but even the Deledios of the AFL are working hard to improve, too. That's why I think it's unfair to label Lennon with the "lazy" tag.
 
Last edited:
TheAnt said:
See I disagree.

If you're good enough and committed enough, there will always be room for traditional footballers. A good case in point would be the Bulldogs.
Click to expand...

The Bulldogs stuck to a rigid game plan and were ferocious - that's a mindset value. They weren't full of unathletic traditional footballers. They could run, and stick to their team structure extremely well. I disagree with your assessment that they are a good case for traditional footballers (in response to my "rigid modern game plan" argument) as an explanation for Lennon's lack of ability to stick to the modern rigid robotic gameplan due to his poor athletic capabilities so far.

Lennon can't attack, then run hard to maintain team defensive structures, then run to make space on the rebound to win possession... because of his physical ability, not due to laziness. In my opinion.

Instead, he's actually done additional work during his holidays, suggesting he's working very hard to overcome his limitations and therefore he's giving himself a better chance to succeed next year.

I entered this thread to change people's minds about this "lazy Lennon" group-think that sprung up...

I think I make a strong argument and am yet to be convinced by any of the quotations that I'm wrong. Happy to change my mind if anyone can make a good enough point.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top