Player Watch #7: Jack Ziebell [Part II] - ©

shimaburnsgrieg

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Apr 1, 2017
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We have known for many years JZ is not good enough to be a full time midfielder and we don't need him in the forward line anymore with Larkey, BBB, Wood and CZ there.

We will continue to squeeze him into the midfield - but it just won't work with him, Cunners (and Jed) all trying to play the same role.

We have a major imbalance in the midfield - we know it and Brady Rawlings will know it - and it's time to correct it through astute trading and drafting.
 

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shinboner magic

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Apr 17, 2007
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If ever a player was a barometer for this current side it’s this guy.

He’s the captain too.
If he wasn’t captain/ heartbeat of the club - he’d be the guy I’d trade.

Got betters users and better options up forward.

I know it’ll never happen at our club
 

Ball Dont Lie

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Feb 26, 2014
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Start of the third he took a great mark. Was 55m out. I feel he could have had a shot on goal and set the agenda for the qtr. he could make the distance. instead it got turned over as went to pass to the top of a congested goal square. Small thing but small things are what is separating us from finals and also ran.
 

Roosurgence

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Aug 25, 2006
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I love Jack and the passion he brings to the club, but FFS he is killing us with his hacking of the pill.

He does so many great things and let’s himself down with the no look bombs.
 

Billy Not Really

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Apr 7, 2018
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Jack, you're back to hitting thread-needling kicks at a low angle that nobody could possibly mark and you're not that good of a kick to execute lace out to hit up on the chest for the boys, and you're doing this all while barely looking at your target if at all.

Stop kicking without looking, I absolutely hate seeing that s**t.
 

Devington

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Jun 4, 2013
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It wasn't just the hack kicks and missed tackles that hurt, it was the leadership too.

At one stage we were getting analised by the umps every time we so much as looked at a Brisbane lions player, and Jack stands up by trying forearm a bloke into the shadow realm with an unnecessary and high fendoff. He had 0 feel for where the game was at. Similiar to Jy at times where he seemed stupidly aggressive and arrogant and just gave away a few frees for it.

That first quarter we controlled the aggression wonderfully. But at some stage half the list got the s**ts and lost that control, at a time when the umps wanted to bareback us, and no one tried to get us to reign in the stupidity.

Quite a bad game by him.
 

mouncey2franklin

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Jun 16, 2018
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Sometimes when he gets the ball in space and blazes away, I wonder if he realises how much space he has.

If not, his positional awareness is <20% of the comp easily. It happens too often and in too much space.

But he did some very good things during that winning spell, made me reconsider some of my earlier calls about him being a plodder.

Looking forward to seeing what they do with him in 2020 and how much value he can give the team as a player, not just a captain.
 

Tas

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Dec 23, 2002
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It is bad coaching over the entire length of his career that he is disposing of the football the way he has been. Players need to be aware of their own limitations and not try and execute disposals they can maybe hit 1 in 10 attempts if they are lucky, in fact, anything that is a 50/50 proposition or worse shouldn't be your go to disposal.

Ball retention is critical, if you can't hit up someone with a high probability/low risk disposal you need to be able to stick the ball out to the advantage of your team mate to improve the probability of retaining the ball. These blind hacks to the opposition catch us out on the rebound without a proper defensive structure, it is worse than not getting possession of the ball in the first place.

I can understand a long kick deep inside the forward 50 when we have forwards one-out, but high hang time hacks into the midfield or not very deep in the forward 50 or wide to the flanks is killing us with rebounds. The reason the Bears got so many inside 50s was because we kept hacking the ball to the opposition. We need to make them earn the ball, not give them multiple opportunities to score.
 

Horizons_00

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Sep 11, 2014
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If ever a player was a barometer for this current side it’s this guy.

He’s the captain too.
If he doesn’t step it up we just won’t win

It’s become simple as that

Must be a lot of pressure on him but that’s footy. I expected him to lift for Brisbane but he just never did
 

shimaburnsgrieg

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It is bad coaching over the entire length of his career that he is disposing of the football the way he has been. Players need to be aware of their own limitations and not try and execute disposals they can maybe hit 1 in 10 attempts if they are lucky, in fact, anything that is a 50/50 proposition or worse shouldn't be your go to disposal.

Ball retention is critical, if you can't hit up someone with a high probability/low risk disposal you need to be able to stick the ball out to the advantage of your team mate to improve the probability of retaining the ball. These blind hacks to the opposition catch us out on the rebound without a proper defensive structure, it is worse than not getting possession of the ball in the first place.

I can understand a long kick deep inside the forward 50 when we have forwards one-out, but high hang time hacks into the midfield or not very deep in the forward 50 or wide to the flanks is killing us with rebounds. The reason the Bears got so many inside 50s was because we kept hacking the ball to the opposition. We need to make them earn the ball, not give them multiple opportunities to score.
Exactly right re poor coaching - JZ (and Cunners) were never penaiised by Bard early in their careers for their inadequacies as players - JZ for his hack kicking and Cunners for his lack of defensive work rate. If Bard had of fixed those issues (by dropping them until they fixed them) they wouldn't be still doing it now. Bard treated them as his mates and said 'all good' hence we see these weaknesses in their games continue.
 

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Twinkletoes

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Jan 28, 2004
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Haven't read all post game posts. I have doubts that Jack will play this week due to a shoulder injury. Am i right off the mark ?
If Scooter fronts up with half a knacker missing I suspect Jack would play regardless of any shoulder pain.
 

Twinkletoes

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Didn’t Jack play a couple of seasons ago with a broken collarbone, cracked ribs & a broken toe?

That reads as ridiculous nonsense, but I’m pretty confident he did.
Something like that. From what we know of his dad Gaz I suspect he wasn't mollycoddled as a kid when coming off sore. He was told to get back out there, suck it up, and soldier on.
 

Val Keating

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Dec 27, 2017
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If he has a delayed start to preseason due to surgery he could be getting right now I’ll spew up.
This has to be factored in too. Still plenty of time and we can technically still make finals. They won’t put the queue in the rack till we’re 100% out of the race.

If he’s injured he wouldn’t be the only one.
 

Tas

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Exactly right re poor coaching - JZ (and Cunners) were never penaiised by Bard early in their careers for their inadequacies as players - JZ for his hack kicking and Cunners for his lack of defensive work rate. If Bard had of fixed those issues (by dropping them until they fixed them) they wouldn't be still doing it now. Bard treated them as his mates and said 'all good' hence we see these weaknesses in their games continue.
It is not really a penalty thing, more of an education thing. I can't imagine players are doing the same s**t over and over for 200 games when the coach is saying don't do this, it is hurting us, do this instead.

If a player is doing the same thing over and over and isn't changing year after year it has to be instruction? How long would you take before snapping if you were the coach and telling him to do a short pass in 80% of the scenarios he is hacking and he just hacks it over and over. I'd be shocked if the coach instruction was different and they weren't executing these basics year after year.
 

tazaa

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I watched him last week against Hawthorn.
He butchered the ball time and time again and his 3 goals masked what was a terrible performance. Alas we won and he’s the captain so no scrutiny.

He is the fabric of the football club but he is a major part of what is so wrong.

He has been the constant in an era where it was mediocre and midtable and has us stuck in no mans land.

Change needs to happen. He captained the club to its lowest score in history and I feel sick. Absolutely sick.
He must go and real leaders, true leaders don’t let the club down like that. Schimma, Duck, Stevo would never have stood for a performance like that.

Change. Needs. To. Happen.

As one of the worst tonight it is poisonous to witness his output and Shaw deserved better. So did we.

Jack isn’t the answer nor the solution.l
 

pupstar

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Its funny how things pan out. When Brad was coach if we played terrible it was the coaches fault Now Shaw is the coach it is the players fault in a lot of posters eyes Not having a go at sure for one minute just an observation.
 

Themanbun

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Apr 19, 2019
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People need to get a grip.

He was ******* s**thouse tonight, but so we’re pretty much the rest of the team.

Everytime we lose it seems to be Jack’s fault. Yes, he needs to learn to lower his eyes, but doesn’t make him a poor leader.
People hone in on him because he's a massive elephant in the room.

He's our captain, and yet we are 11 years into his career and don't know if he's a mid, or a forward, or a mid-forward, or a forward- mid. Most weeks he blindly kicks to the opposition wall (probably our biggest problem over the past decade has been forward 50 entries), he struggles for goalkicking accuracy, and struggles to run two ways. On occasion, some awful habits of falling to the ground frequently and begging for free kicks creep into his game. He has had a decade to work on these things.

It feels as if we are shoehorning him into the side because he is our captain.

I do think he is a good leader. He commands respect and tries his heart out for North. He was a bloody great mid sized forward in 2018 - trouble for him is that he is one of about 5-6 blokes who only fit that position.

He's still a solid player, don't get me wrong. But as a captain it's probably predictable that he cops a bit more scrutiny.
 

shintemaster

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Aug 24, 2002
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People hone in on him because he's a massive elephant in the room.

He's our captain, and yet we are 11 years into his career and don't know if he's a mid, or a forward, or a mid-forward, or a forward- mid. Most weeks he blindly kicks to the opposition wall (probably our biggest problem over the past decade has been forward 50 entries), he struggles for goalkicking accuracy, and struggles to run two ways. On occasion, some awful habits of falling to the ground frequently and begging for free kicks creep into his game. He has had a decade to work on these things.

It feels as if we are shoehorning him into the side because he is our captain.

I do think he is a good leader. He commands respect and tries his heart out for North. He was a bloody great mid sized forward in 2018 - trouble for him is that he is one of about 5-6 blokes who only fit that position.

He's still a solid player, don't get me wrong. But as a captain it's probably predictable that he cops a bit more scrutiny.
Plays some solid games as a more mid orientated player but for mine he should never be even close to full time there. If he's in the team he should be a utility and genuinely play forward, mid and back or 70% forward 30% mid. His effectiveness in the middle drops away the more he plays there because he just doesn't have the run in his legs to do it full time.
 

astrovic

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Sep 27, 2007
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In 1993, we demoted our captain. He was a great leader, but his disposal was questionable at times and we needed new blooed.

So we appointed as captain a 21 year old half forward whose surname ended in "ey". It surprised some, but he quickly proved how right a decision it was.

I say it's time for history repeat itself.
 

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