Past #7: Jack Ziebell [Part II] - retires post-RFC game/280gm&183gl/6yr captain - Shinboner - assaulted post-RFC game& in hospital - get well soon JZ

[The Y Factor]

I didn't so settle down.

I won’t settle down if and when people judge and can our players - to say you didn’t is odd

re-read your posts and perhaps re - evaluate your tone

 

[ChoppyGun]

I won’t settle down if and when people do judge snd can our players - to say you didn’t is odd

re-read your posts snd perhaps re - evaluate your tone

Moderators exist and you aren't one.

I have every reason to judge our players like any person can.

If you don't like my opinion on Jack needing to step up that's your problem.

 

[Horizons_00]

In saying this, if his body stays good, he can definitely go back to his form back in 2018/2017

no
No
No

he can’t
We supporters are completely delusional if we think he can
He is 30 years old
He has been smashed from pillar to post, self inflicted, brave
But it wears you out, as the bloke from Radiohead says

if he can play just alright that would be a bonus

Not completely delusional. He had a very good 2018/2019.

Realistically he probably only has a few years left, but he is a fierce competitor.

If he’s fit this year he will surprise a few

 

[The Warlord]

Not completely delusional. He had a very good 2018/2019.

Realistically he probably only has a few years left, but he is a fierce competitor.

If he’s fit this year he will surprise a few

Looks in ripping nick.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Also, not sure I would be comparing Turner to Carey... in any statistic, not exactly a fair or equitable comparison

It's "fair & equitable" when folks post ridiculous crap about his goalkicking.

 

[The Y Factor]

Moderators exist and you aren't one.

I have every reason to judge our players like any person can.

If you don't like my opinion on Jack needing to step up that's your problem.

initially - You were having a crack at someone for questioning your opinion.

I merely pointed out that not everyone enjoys posts that target our players.

As I have stated- you can have your opinion about our players and that is fine but you can
expect others to question it because many posters don’t like that tone towards our players .

This isn’t about your opinion towards Jack it’s a general statement against people canning our own players.

 

[ferball]

In saying this, if his body stays good, he can definitely go back to his form back in 2018/2017

no
No
No

he can’t
We supporters are completely delusional if we think he can
He is 30 years old
He has been smashed from pillar to post, self inflicted, brave
But it wears you out, as the bloke from Radiohead says

if he can play just alright that would be a bonus

He needs to be in a cage, on antibiotics?

 

[ferball]

Not completely delusional. He had a very good 2018/2019.

Realistically he probably only has a few years left, but he is a fierce competitor.

If he’s fit this year he will surprise a few

I keep bringing it up - 10 Brownlow votes in 2019. 7 in 2018. 59 goals over those two seasons.

His 2018 season is comparable to Higgo in 2015 on every measure you want to make. I know Jack doesn't have the mobility or athleticism of Higgo, they are different players, but his output was right up there.

He won't surprise me if he has a good year. I'm kind of expecting it.

But last year he kicked 1 goal 7 so hopefully he gets that under control. The two years before he was kicking 5 goals to just over 4 behinds (2018) and 3 goals to two behinds in 2019 which is an improvement. While that seems average or poor apparently they were the worst two years for goal kicking accuracy in decades and Jack actually improved over that time.

He might suffer in comparison cos he isn't Dangerfield but I know who I'd rather have playing in a grand final.

 

[shinboner magic]

I keep bringing it up - 10 Brownlow votes in 2019. 7 in 2018. 59 goals over those two seasons.

His 2018 season is comparable to Higgo in 2015 on every measure you want to make. I know Jack doesn't have the mobility or athleticism of Higgo, they are different players, but his output was right up there.

He won't surprise me if he has a good year. I'm kind of expecting it.

But last year he kicked 1 goal 7 so hopefully he gets that under control. The two years before he was kicking 5 goals to just over 4 behinds (2018) and 3 goals to two behinds in 2019 which is an improvement. While that seems average or poor apparently they were the worst two years for goal kicking accuracy in decades and Jack actually improved over that time.

He might suffer in comparison cos he isn't Dangerfield but I know who I'd rather have playing in a grand final.

We’ve got a lot of players made for GF but none that can get us there

 

[ChoppyGun]

FWIW I hope Jack has a ripping season.

I guess I'll wait to see it actually happen before getting too excited just because he "looks fit".

Outside that I won't criticise him again.

 

[Reginald0]

He might suffer in comparison cos he isn't Dangerfield but I know who I'd rather have playing in a grand final.

I don’t think delusional adequately sums this up
Players, and I say this with no evidence except common sense, get more inaccurate as they get older
They start panicking, they get the yips
BB has the yips
When it mattered, he missed
Petrie was the perfect example, under pressure he started missing and that as they say, is that
Hopefully JZ can get back on track but that will be the triumph of Hope over Experience
Good luck with this

 

[disco_cowboy]

FWIW I hope Jack has a ripping season.

I guess I'll wait to see it actually happen before getting too excited just because he "looks fit".

Outside that I won't criticise him again.

i actually think this is the best way to go about it. new coach, new system, possibly new positions for some players.
it's easy to say that a player is done (atley, turner, zeebs) but I would rather give them every opportunity to succeed and back them in to do it then to put a line through their name.
Ziebell has had to lead the team through a really unsettling few years and I would love to see him play another 2-3 years if he can. Not at the detriment to the team or other players but because he deserves success.

 

[pupstar]

i actually think this is the best way to go about it. new coach, new system, possibly new positions for some players.
it's easy to say that a player is done (atley, turner, zeebs) but I would rather give them every opportunity to succeed and back them in to do it then to put a line through their name.
Ziebell has had to lead the team through a really unsettling few years and I would love to see him play another 2-3 years if he can. Not at the detriment to the team or other players but because he deserves success.

Well said but like i have said in the past he will never not put the NMFC first in all situations period.

 

[HongKongRoo]

I don’t think delusional adequately sums this up
Players, and I say this with no evidence except common sense, get more inaccurate as they get older
They start panicking, they get the yips

It might be more in the middle of their career, Leigh Matthews and Matthew Lloyd were still kicking 60-70 goals a season into their thirties, Quinlan and Locket both cracked the ton in their thirties. I know it's about opportunity and time period but I think when players get older they need to have worked through the yips and cleaned up both the mental and physical flaws in their games.

Brown's slump may have had something to do with his state, he physically didn't look right all year.
Jack has clearly been playing injured so hopefully a return to better health will positively impact his scoreboard work

 

[ferball]

I don’t think delusional adequately sums this up

No question Jack would give 100% in an GF.

Could you say that about Dangerfield this year?

Players, and I say this with no evidence except common sense, get more inaccurate as they get older
They start panicking, they get the yips
BB has the yips
When it mattered, he missed
Petrie was the perfect example, under pressure he started missing and that as they say, is that
Hopefully JZ can get back on track but that will be the triumph of Hope over Experience
Good luck with this

So with no real evidence at all.

 

[King Corey]

Have said it before, you don't always notice a good captain until you get a bad one.

Jack sets the tone off-field, is empathetic, inclusive and welcoming and gets around his teammates. Hard as nails and leads by example in all that he does.

When he's on he gets into smart positions and competes (and wins most of the time) for contested ball in a way that shows up several younger teammates.

He might've lost a yard (and never had a yard to lose) and plays hurt too often but he's an articulate team first player who absolutely should be skipper until someone else wrenches it from him.

 

[Horizons_00]

It’s a clean slate for Zeebs in 2021. Just like the rest of the team.

We are a new North. I am going to hold off harsh judgement

 

[ChoppyGun]

Have said it before, you don't always notice a good captain until you get a bad one.

Jack sets the tone off-field, is empathetic, inclusive and welcoming and gets around his teammates. Hard as nails and leads by example in all that he does.

When he's on he gets into smart positions and competes (and wins most of the time) for contested ball in a way that shows up several younger teammates.

He might've lost a yard (and never had a yard to lose) and plays hurt too often but he's an articulate team first player who absolutely should be skipper until someone else wrenches it from him.

As you know we disagree on this and you rate him far higher than I do. (which is fine)

Does he really lead by example in "everything he does"? I'd highly dispute that, especially onfield.

When is enough enough then? Someone wins a Brownlow? He misses another season? Where's the line on wrenching it from him?

 

[disco_cowboy]

As you know we disagree on this and you rate him far higher than I do. (which is fine)

Does he really lead by example in "everything he does"? I'd highly dispute that, especially onfield.

When is enough enough then? Someone wins a Brownlow? He misses another season? Where's the line on wrenching it from him?

How can you dispute that Ziebell doesn't lead by example on field? Can you explain what you mean?

 

[ChoppyGun]

How can you dispute that Ziebell doesn't lead by example on field? Can you explain what you mean?

Missed set shots under pressure - he has killed our momentum far too many times. He needs to kick those goals as very deflating.

Going to ground far too easily - keeping your feet is under 12s stuff to stay in the contest. Once on the ground you are out of play.

Hack kicks when under minimal pressure. Opposition set up deliberately for such kicks and leaves up open on rebound.

I absolutely love his courage and if the game was 30 years ago I believe it would suit his game far better.

 

[disco_cowboy]

Missed set shots under pressure - he has killed our momentum far too many times. He needs to kick those goals as very deflating.

Going to ground far too easily - keeping your feet is under 12s stuff to stay in the contest. Once on the ground you are out of play.

Hack kicks when under minimal pressure. Opposition set up deliberately for such kicks and leaves up open on rebound.

I absolutely love his courage and if the game was 30 years ago I believe it would suit his game far better.

I can't argue that these are some things that I would love to see removed from his game (albeit probably a lost cause now) but I really really don't believe that is what makes a good on-field leader.

It's the 1 percenters, the thankless team-first jobs, its putting your head over the ball when it's your turn to go and it's a desire scrap for a win. Zeebs has all these in spades.

Sitting him in the F50 has made it harder for him to make an impact but when they throw him into the middle he makes an impact and you can feel the team lift.

 

[ChoppyGun]

I can't argue that these are some things that I would love to see removed from his game (albeit probably a lost cause now) but I really really don't believe that is what makes a good on-field leader.

It's the 1 percenters, the thankless team-first jobs, its putting your head over the ball when it's your turn to go and it's a desire scrap for a win. Zeebs has all these in spades.

Sitting him in the F50 has made it harder for him to make an impact but when they throw him into the middle he makes an impact and you can feel the team lift.

That's fine and I like Jack (everyone does!). I'm simply looking at what is best for him and the team, nothing more.

At his best he clearly is a very good player despite clear faults which really let him down his whole career.

I'm happy for him to stay Captain but it's this year he delivers or it's time to move on surely.

 

[giantroo]

 

[DesertRoo]

Someone’s reading this thread.. Jack back is a smart move

 

[giantroo]