Player Watch #7: Jack Ziebell [Part II] - ©

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DunderHead

Club Legend
Apr 12, 2007
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We outsource football leadership development and identification these days?

Another plus one for the post 2000's administrations re- actual football. :thumbsu:
Everyone does it. They'll run a program that challenges the guys in slightly different ways than the last program that was run the prior year. Its not brain surgery but its easier to bring a group of impartials in for this stuff and i suspect it probably allows the individuals to speak more freely amd creates a fresh dynamic. Let the football club worry about football. We refer to this as Fluff in my industry. Its not essential but it can be engaging and provides a bit of a change from the normal day to day routine.
 

ChoppyGun

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he still deserves to hold the reins.
Only because Jy and Luke still need to put some seasons together. They are leaders. Taz would be great imo.

People think I dislike Jack. Not true.

I love his courage but he simply isn't a leader (just a top bloke) to me and our results back my opinion so far.
 

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koshari

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Mar 24, 2011
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If he had kicked the goals last year he would be viewed totally differently. The game he came back injured was him trying hard when the team needed him badly, while it didn’t work out I can’t hold that against him. He is very good at most aspects of captaincy. I would have had him concentrate on improving his set shot kicking rather than playing back but he still deserves to hold the reins.
tend to agree, he has a great set of tools but his kicking plain sucked, he was a poor mans version of levi casboult last year.
 

ferball

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I'd pick Swallow (prior achilles) over Ziebell every day of the week.

Sure he wasn't as media savvy (ummm, ahhh) but at least he led by example on field.

Jack doesn't.
I don't think that is true. In his last uninterrupted season (2019) he led well by example. And he kicked at 60%+ for goal. He's not a great North Captain but he's not a sh*t one either and has a chance to end his career as a very good, committed captain if he performs well.

I think Jy should eventually get his job. But I'd rather see Jy Simpkin demand the captaincy by driving standards on and off field before he gets it. I dunno if anyone else should do it in the meantime. I'd like to see Jy step up and act like the captain this year so he is given the job next year. He'd still be young but hopefully would have proven himself by season's end.
 

ferball

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tend to agree, he has a great set of tools but his kicking plain sucked, he was a poor mans version of levi casboult last year.
In 2019 he kicked 24g 16. (60%. It was 45.something percent across the comp that year.) Last year it was 1g 7.

That has to be an outlier.

But his goal kicking has cost us in the last 5 years.
 

shimaburnsgrieg

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I think that would be a bit harsh on Jack. He has been a very good player and leader for us. I share the doubts as to whether he still has the ability to be a consistent best 22 player and therefore I would be moving the captaincy on for 2021. I would hate to see JZ in a position where there is real pressure on his spot and it becomes a big media issue because he is the captain.

Give it to Robbie Tarrant if they are worried that it is too early for Jye or LMAc.
I suspect Nobes has been giving this quite a bit of thought and has been watching JZ closely in the preseason - can his body hold up? is he still best 22? what position can he beat his opponent on a regular basis?

Now that he has seen 4 weeks of preseason Nobes has convinced himself that he has the answers to those questions and wants to move ahead with JZ this year as Captain (and maybe playing him in defence.)

Retaining JZ as captain would be as much to do with the alternatives (mainly Jy) being just a bit too young and the experienced guys (Goldie and Taz) either not wanting to be seen to replace their mate JZ or just not wanting the captaincy at this stage of their career.

I actually think JZ has been disappointing as a captain from where my expectations were when he took over - our on field leadership overall has been poor from 2017 to 2020.

However we don't need to be dancing on people's graves here or creating our own instability - if Nobes thinks its in our best medium term interests for JZ to go around 1 more year as skipper then fair enough - happy to back that call.
 

LuvtheKangas

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Only because Jy and Luke still need to put some seasons together. They are leaders. Taz would be great imo.

People think I dislike Jack. Not true.

I love his courage but he simply isn't a leader (just a top bloke) to me and our results back my opinion so far.
I thought you said a couple of weeks ago that you would lay off the Ziebell bashing and wait to see what happens this year. And yet you keep posting something negative about him on almost a daily basis. How about not repeating your criticisms until something happens that is deserving of criticism?

FWIW, insiders at the club disagree 100% that Jack "simply isn't a leader". Frankly, you have no basis for continually pushing this line - it's laughable to base your argument on our results.
 

ChoppyGun

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I thought you said a couple of weeks ago that you would lay off the Ziebell bashing and wait to see what happens this year. And yet you keep posting something negative about him on almost a daily basis. How about not repeating your criticisms until something happens that is deserving of criticism?

FWIW, insiders at the club disagree 100% that Jack "simply isn't a leader". Frankly, you have no basis for continually pushing this line - it's laughable to base your argument on our results.
Ok mate.

What's laughable is to say he's been a great leader off zero results but sure think that.
 
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ChoppyGun

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I thought you said a couple of weeks ago that you would lay off the Ziebell bashing and wait to see what happens this year. And yet you keep posting something negative about him on almost a daily basis. How about not repeating your criticisms until something happens that is deserving of criticism?

FWIW, insiders at the club disagree 100% that Jack "simply isn't a leader". Frankly, you have no basis for continually pushing this line - it's laughable to base your argument on our results.
"Insiders at the club" have near given us the wooden spoon a couple of times under Jack's captaincy.

Not sure a great reference point unless you enjoy losing.
 

7577969923

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I suspect Nobes has been giving this quite a bit of thought and has been watching JZ closely in the preseason - can his body hold up? is he still best 22? what position can he beat his opponent on a regular basis?

Now that he has seen 4 weeks of preseason Nobes has convinced himself that he has the answers to those questions and wants to move ahead with JZ this year as Captain (and maybe playing him in defence.)

Retaining JZ as captain would be as much to do with the alternatives (mainly Jy) being just a bit too young and the experienced guys (Goldie and Taz) either not wanting to be seen to replace their mate JZ or just not wanting the captaincy at this stage of their career.

I actually think JZ has been disappointing as a captain from where my expectations were when he took over - our on field leadership overall has been poor from 2017 to 2020.

However we don't need to be dancing on people's graves here or creating our own instability - if Nobes thinks its in our best medium term interests for JZ to go around 1 more year as skipper then fair enough - happy to back that call.
As you rightly point out, no-one would be watching JZ closer than Nobes and the rest of the football department. I hope they are right on this one.
 

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ChoppyGun

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Jack shouldn't be Captain.

It's as simple as that. (but no-one (including "Nobes") will tap him on the shoulder as he's "tough" and a "great bloke".

Hodge a * and has multiple Premierships as Captain.

Jack near 2 wooden spoons with pretty good teams.
 
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Luke72

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Only because Jy and Luke still need to put some seasons together. They are leaders. Taz would be great imo.

People think I dislike Jack. Not true.

I love his courage but he simply isn't a leader (just a top bloke) to me and our results back my opinion so far.
Why do you think he isn’t a leader? I understand the criticism about his form but I think he leads well.
 

ChoppyGun

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Why do you think he isn’t a leader? I understand the criticism about his form but I think he leads well.
I simply don't. He is tough, good speaker but he doesn't deliver on field plus frankly I think he's vastly overrated as a player tbh. (other supporters take the piss and I've given up protecting him)

As I said, Swallow a much better Captain than Jack. Led by example.

By all means disagree but since this guy took over we've gone backwards. I don't blame him solely but he should have been reset like the rest of the club.
 
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The Y Factor

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Everyone does it. They'll run a program that challenges the guys in slightly different ways than the last program that was run the prior year. Its not brain surgery but its easier to bring a group of impartials in for this stuff and i suspect it probably allows the individuals to speak more freely amd creates a fresh dynamic. Let the football club worry about football. We refer to this as Fluff in my industry. Its not essential but it can be engaging and provides a bit of a change from the normal day to day routine.
The other part is that the coaching department is bare bones so any plans like this probably need even more assistance than years past!
 

Shagga is all Class

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Jack shouldn't be Captain.

It's as simple as that. (but no-one (including "Nobes") will tap him on the shoulder as he's "tough" and a "great bloke".

Hodge a * and has multiple Premierships as Captain.

Jack near 2 wooden spoons with pretty good teams.
Not sure what the issue is really.

Last I checked, Jack is out of contract and if any team needed to get some high draft picks, it is us.

After the cull last year, 20 blokes out of contract this year spells new era and a bunch of people essentially on performance based contracts.

Ok, so Jack and Atley did not end up superstars. But still in the top 30 or so games played for North. They may be here in 2022 and they may not.
 

Caracas

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Jack shouldn't be Captain.

It's as simple as that. (but no-one (including "Nobes") will tap him on the shoulder as he's "tough" and a "great bloke".

Hodge a * and has multiple Premierships as Captain.

Jack near 2 wooden spoons with pretty good teams.
I take your point - there may well be other guys on our team that could do a better job than Jack. However, on both occasions we nearly won the spoon under Ziebs, there were major factors in play. In 2017, our team had just lost Harvey, Petrie, Wells, Dal Santo and Spud. Last season was an injury-hit nightmare, including Jack.. and Cunnington. If Hodge was captain of the present Hawthorn team and if they had have been hit with similar injuries as us last season, I reckon they would have won the spoon. It’s really a moot argument- total speculation, to be fair.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Reginald0

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Jul 30, 2012
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Jack shouldn't be Captain.

It's as simple as that. (but no-one (including "Nobes") will tap him on the shoulder as he's "tough" and a "great bloke".

Hodge a * and has multiple Premierships as Captain.

Jack near 2 wooden spoons with pretty good teams.
Am I reading this...,,?!??
Pretty good teams?!!?!

we cut 14 players and maybe 1 got picked up, you have to be kidding we finished 2nd last because a lot of our players cannot kick or handball to a teammate Under Pressure
Pretty much the exact definition of Not a Good Team
 

Rad Roo

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The name vandenberg comes to mind in regards to ziebell's role in the annals of our captains. He will not lead a dynastic but pave way for the actual leader of the dynasty. Get him fit, i mean completely fit for 2021. His role in defense will give him new area to work on hence prolonging his career.

The forward 6 already looks formed and ready to rock, just need to pump some game exposure. Midfield looks close to being ready with the right players, just need to get the rotation right. What role can ziebell play? Does he have the same speed as firrito? If he can play this undersized key defender then it would be a great win for us.

Does Ziebell's move into defense mean atley will be released into the middle in order to get him to take his game to the next level? SOmeone lie atley with his attribute in most club are attacking midfielders who runs into the forward line to kick goals.
 

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