Past #7: Jack Ziebell [Part II] - retires post-RFC game/280gm&183gl/6yr captain - Shinboner - assaulted post-RFC game& in hospital - get well soon JZ

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I was watching the game with a mate and we both said almost exactly the same time that it was a blessing in disguise. Didn't look ready at all.

Get him fit before he plays again. At his best he can be a match winner but was a long way from that yesterday.

(Wasn't the only one in the first half tho so he might have played better if he'd stayed on.)
 
ferball said:
I was watching the game with a mate and we both said almost exactly the same time that it was a blessing in disguise. Didn't look ready at all.

Get him fit before he plays again. At his best he can be a match winner but was a long way from that yesterday.

(Wasn't the only one in the first half tho so he might have played better if he'd stayed on.)
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I didn't want to be 'that guy', but Jack was pretty much an outright liability. He has his weaknesses in the middle even without being underdone, and he looked dreadful almost the entire time he was on field. With him out our midfield mix instantly improved.

I said it in the lead up to the game, but I was really uninspired when he declared himself fit to play. I had zero faith he would have the requisite conditioning under his belt, let alone touch. Him being Captain is a real double sided blade at times.

Might cop some flack for it, but in all honesty unless he's fit, healthy, and playing 80% forward on his own merits, if he wasn't captain he is one of more than a handful of senior players that I genuinely believe in an ideal world we would be cycling out of the list for the sake of the future. And god almighty do I hope his calf dramas aren't a sign of the future to come.
 
Devington said:
I didn't want to be 'that guy', but Jack was pretty much an outright liability. He has his weaknesses in the middle even without being underdone, and he looked dreadful almost the entire time he was on field. With him out our midfield mix instantly improved.

I said it in the lead up to the game, but I was really uninspired when he declared himself fit to play. I had zero faith he would have the requisite conditioning under his belt, let alone touch. Him being Captain is a real double sided blade at times.

Might cop some flack for it, but in all honesty unless he's fit, healthy, and playing 80% forward on his own merits, if he wasn't captain he is one of more than a handful of senior players that I genuinely believe in an ideal world we would be cycling out of the list for the sake of the future. And god almighty do I hope his calf dramas aren't a sign of the future to come.
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Ive loved him from day dot however the condition he presented himself in for a round 1 game of AFL footy was unprofessional from a football club and personal point of view.
The double grabbing and poor touch meant the ball was on the ground more often than not and forced him to put himself in awkward situations where injuries may occur.

Just out of his depth sadly.
It’s sad and I hope he comes back improved and just as manic as before but this game catches up with you rather quickly and it’s very hard to justify him in a forward line if he isn’t close to 100% fitness.
 

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tazaa said:
Ive loved him from day dot however the condition he presented himself in for a round 1 game of AFL footy was unprofessional from a football club and personal point of view.
The double grabbing and poor touch meant the ball was on the ground more often than not and forced him to put himself in awkward situations where injuries may occur.

Just out of his depth sadly.
It’s sad and I hope he comes back improved and just as manic as before but this game catches up with you rather quickly and it’s very hard to justify him in a forward line if he isn’t close to 100% fitness.
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Surgeries almost every season, including many major ones to his lower half, played a brutal game style his whole career, and now presenting with calf issues. If the end is going to come fast for anyone, Jack is as likely a candidate as anyone I can think of.
 
Devington said:
Surgeries almost every season, including many major ones to his lower half, played a brutal game style his whole career, and now presenting with calf issues. If the end is going to come fast for anyone, Jack is as likely a candidate as anyone I can think of.
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At the same time this season might allow him some recovery to the rest of his body.
 
ferball said:
At the same time this season might allow him some recovery to the rest of his body.
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The last thing he needed was a leg injury and to be isolated during rehab but if it means he’s resting his calf then I’m all for it. Crucial four weeks coming up for him and I hope come May 31st he’s right to go.
Devington said:
I'm certainly hoping so! I'm obviously being a bit fatalistic with what I'm saying, but the possibility is there and him being our captain would make it even more of a quandary.
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At least he won’t rush for round 1 this time.
 
For all his flaws, and I was relieved yesterday when he went off, as bad as that sounds...

He's averaged about 30 goals for the last 2 seasons and picked up 10 votes in the Brownlow last year. We can use that, and his incredible hardness on the ground.

Might be time for someone like Jy to take the captaincy tho, if he can lead us to a few comeback victories in the meantime.

But that still leaves Jack with the ability to win games for us. If he'd kicked a little straighter in 2018 he'd have had 40 to 50 goals for the year. I'm not writing him off yet, just get him fit.
 
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ferball said:
For all his flaws, and I was relieved yesterday when he went off, as bad as that sounds...

He's averaged about 30 goals for the last 2 seasons and picked up 10 votes in the Brownlow last year. We can use that, and his incredible hardness on the ground.

Might be time for someone like Jy to take the captaincy tho, if he can lead us to a few comeback victories in the meantime.

But that still leaves Jack with the ability to win games for us. If he'd kicked a little straighter in 2018 he'd have had 40 to 50 goals for the year. I'm not writing him off yet, just get him fit.
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He’s still spiritual leader.
Who knows his injury might have sparked us back into life.
But in the modern game you need to be able to run back hard and along with Ahern it was just ironic that our pressure rating lifted.

Curtis Taylor with all three games under his belt showed tremendous ability nailing several tackles and holding the balls in the second half.

As you mentioned if Jack gets his goal kicking right along with his toughness and great marking ability he’s a weapon.
But it’s just not clicking at the minute.
 
1 effective disposal

Season 2020 Totals/Averages​
GMCPUPEDDE%CMMI51%BOCLCCLSCLSIMGTOITCT50TOG%
Total142116.7010000028343047
Average14.02.01.016.701.0000002.083.04.03.0047.0
 
ferball said:
For all his flaws, and I was relieved yesterday when he went off, as bad as that sounds...

He's averaged about 30 goals for the last 2 seasons and picked up 10 votes in the Brownlow last year. We can use that, and his incredible hardness on the ground.

Might be time for someone like Jy to take the captaincy tho, if he can lead us to a few comeback victories in the meantime.

But that still leaves Jack with the ability to win games for us. If he'd kicked a little straighter in 2018 he'd have had 40 to 50 goals for the year. I'm not writing him off yet, just get him fit.
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He's a really good pressure and strength based medium forward, that can punch above his weight in the air. 'Really good' sells him short when he's switched on tbh. Problem is when he plays further up the ground for more than a stint or two, or if he's not switched on or healthy.

And we already have too many players whose best and worst are too far apart, and alternate between the two too often. And again, many of those same players are in Jack's age group or just below it. New coach means new instructions and roles (as well as different coaching style/s), and god knows the instructions some players had to adhere to in the past were absolute drek, so it's not like we're without hope that a lot of the blokes we've been waiting on to 'make the next step up' for the best part of a half decade or more might still do that.... but man our recruiting/development has left us in an awkward place that is hard to find a way out from. Thankfully we finally appear to have a tier of much younger players that are genuinely pushing a lot of these blokes to either improve or make way, and it's great. Would be even better if we didn't have an obsession with season ending injuries that blokes don't recover from properly.
 
 

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Tough decision to be made about Jack when he is back fit.. He is 100% best 22, I'm not questioning that. I just think that he can't get midfield minutes at the expense of Jy & TT.

My opinion is that he will have to play predominantly forward for the remainder of his career. Potentially deep forward, with a couple quick stints in center bounces every half. I'd be looking at this forward line moving forward:

Taylor - Larkey - Thomas
Ziebell - Brown - Anderson

Good mix of skill/toughness/poise/goal kicking in there.
 
Psicosis said:
Tough decision to be made about Jack when he is back fit.. He is 100% best 22, I'm not questioning that. I just think that he can't get midfield minutes at the expense of Jy & TT.

My opinion is that he will have to play predominantly forward for the remainder of his career. Potentially deep forward, with a couple quick stints in center bounces every half. I'd be looking at this forward line moving forward:

Taylor - Larkey - Thomas
Ziebell - Brown - Anderson

Good mix of skill/toughness/poise/goal kicking in there.
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You could rotate him and Cunners thru the middle and forward line.

70/30 or 80/20 with Cunners predominantly a mid.
 
Psicosis said:
Tough decision to be made about Jack when he is back fit.. He is 100% best 22, I'm not questioning that. I just think that he can't get midfield minutes at the expense of Jy & TT.

My opinion is that he will have to play predominantly forward for the remainder of his career. Potentially deep forward, with a couple quick stints in center bounces every half. I'd be looking at this forward line moving forward:

Taylor - Larkey - Thomas
Ziebell - Brown - Anderson

Good mix of skill/toughness/poise/goal kicking in there.
Click to expand...

i'd like him to play 70% forward, 30% mid and Cunners the opposite.
 
Psicosis said:
Tough decision to be made about Jack when he is back fit.. He is 100% best 22, I'm not questioning that. I just think that he can't get midfield minutes at the expense of Jy & TT.

My opinion is that he will have to play predominantly forward for the remainder of his career. Potentially deep forward, with a couple quick stints in center bounces every half. I'd be looking at this forward line moving forward:

Taylor - Larkey - Thomas
Ziebell - Brown - Anderson

Good mix of skill/toughness/poise/goal kicking in there.
Click to expand...
Zurhaar having a spell?

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We probably erred playing Jack unfit. I'd guess he was given the grace of declaring himself fit and that's a difficult one, as a leader he's going to do that no matter how beaten up he is but it was probably to the team's detriment. That said, who knows how much his presence helped the team's confidence?

He's a ripping bloke and his leadership won't be appreciated until he's gone. Hopefully he gets himself nice and fit and back out there wreaking havoc again when things resume.

Just in reference to Taylor's poise near goal, that was Jack too once upon a time. You could safely assume he'd nail the goal everytime in his first few years.
 
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