Past #7: Jack Ziebell [Part II] - retires post-RFC game/280gm&183gl/6yr captain - Shinboner - assaulted post-RFC game& in hospital - get well soon JZ

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NORTH MELBOURNE

Jack Ziebell in defence is a balancing act for David Noble

The North Melbourne skipper racked up a lot of the footy, took the game on by foot and showed he could offer plenty coming out of the backline.

Conversely, he was targeted by the Hawks and more than once found himself isolated against a far bigger opponent, with Jacob Koschitzke a key beneficiary at stages throughout the match.

Some of Ziebell’s attempts to open the game up backfired and led to opposition scores, too. Given Ziebell has been building for a positional switch all pre-season, it’s not likely coach David Noble is going to backflip on the move after one match.

The 30-year-old has a lot to give and there were several moments on Saturday that demonstrated how fruitful the change could prove to be as the season progresses.

It’s a balancing act Noble will have to consider throughout the year.
 

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DuckYeah said:
Sure, thats fine. It resulted in a Hawthorn goal. Thats the bottom line. Whether communication, exiting or blocking or whatever it is or how anyone would like to phrase it. There is a massive problem down back and it wasnt good enough. Its only a practice match so I take it with a grain of salt. Hopefully they can work on it hard over the next couple of weeks.
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Certainly wasn’t good enough from the backs as a unit, communication may improve somewhat with Tarrant when he returns.

In that situation the mark was the right option if the rest of the backs played their role as expected.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
The Anvil said:
Certainly wasn’t good enough from the backs as a unit, communication may improve somewhat with Tarrant when he returns.

In that situation the mark was the right option if the rest of the backs played their role as expected.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app
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Im not in disagreement. It was one example I used to sum up how the defence was poor, which really wasnt a result from what happened up the ground.
 
Just admit it won't work, don't be stubborn and end it now.

He has never given any indication his entire career that he could be a defender, if anything the opposite, and training and games so far confirm that.

We are lacking up fwd with Brown gone so he can play with Larkey and Walker. I'd rather him than Turner as a fwd.

If we need a mid rotation he can still do that especially if we have senior mids unavailable.
 
I blame the absence of Tarrant, and the inexperience of Jack in the backline for lack of organisation and system.
 
Unfortunately it's looking a bit like the Old Yeller treatment that Swallow got when he was moved to a forward flank which seemed to be as successful as Jack's move to the backline. He needs to be put out of his misery and go back to the forward line to give the younger forwards a chop out and a hardened body or else this move will taint his legacy. It makes no sense to have him in the backline 'for his leadership and voice' when you have Tarrant, Corr, McDonald and Atley there. It's the most experienced part of our team.

No doubt he's a warrior and tries his guts out but he's never been a very good player. For years we've watched him ignore a shorter option to hack the ball forward to the loose man in defence and trail opposition mids out the square much like DC Tosh Lines from The Bill would go after a villain. He seemed half decent in the forward line as a third marking option (albeit with limited forward pressure) but then he lost the ability to kick straight for goal.

On camera he says all the right things but I just wish our best leaders could be our best players (see JMac). Imagine copping a spray from him on the ground if you were someone like Tarryn Thomas or Bailey Scott when you see him getting outpointed by his opponents time and again, unable to keep his feet or run out of sight on a dark night? I suspect it might not carry too much weight.

Also given the debacle of the hub etc. last year - everyone else in the club has copped criticism apart from him, I can appreciate a lot of things were out of his hands and handled poorly by others but surely he has a degree of responsibility as the on-ground leader of the club.
 
Our leadership group worst in my lifetime.

I'm 40.

We are in big trouble.
 
One thing in Jack's defence - he seems to be the most dedicated to playing David Noble's game plan. He's going for those aggressive 45 kicks even after he turns it over a couple of times. The younger players need to follow his example and not go into their shells after they've made a mistake.
 
Roman Roy said:
One thing in Jack's defence - he seems to be the most dedicated to playing David Noble's game plan. He's going for those aggressive 45 kicks even after he turns it over a couple of times. The younger players need to follow his example and not go into their shells after they've made a mistake.
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He seemed to go for those kicks when our guy was covered though? Surely that is not the instruction? I can excuse fluffing the kick and turning it over but not kicking it inside when players are not open.
 
Masked Avenger said:
Jack's endeavour can't be questioned but making him captain when he hasn't locked down a position in the team is very questionable. There will be some very awkward team selection discussions throughout the year if Jack doesn't concrete a spot down there
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Who is actually saying he is not in the best 22 ? Next question i would put to the Captains knockers is if Noble is playing him in the backline or even at or in a lot of posters eyes does that make Noble clueless already. Dear me i love big footy. Give the guy a break if i want to listern to posters bagging out our Captain and other stalwarts other teams forums we dont need it on ours. Its fine to have an opinion but a little respect goes along way.
 

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muttley45 said:
I blame the absence of Tarrant, and the inexperience of Jack in the backline for lack of organisation and system.
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Tarrant played against St Kilda and it was just as bad.

If Jack wasn’t captain there would be no chance he’d be lining up round 1 and he would be given atleast a month in the VFL before senior selection. It will be like lamb to slaughter come round 1 if we persist.

I was trying to find the article from 2017 about how we tried to hide Swallow on a forward flank when his form dipped and this is all too similar.
Spitta got so much more out of his career and was our best captain since Carey. So the when the end finally came for a pick 45, the fact he had a couple of prelims under his belt and 8 or so finals, he was content to call it a day.
I don’t think Jack is there yet and I think his legacy as Captain from 2017-2021 hurts him deep down.
His winning record is the worst in the AFL era and time is running out to attest to that.
 
tazaa said:
Tarrant played against St Kilda and it was just as bad.

If Jack wasn’t captain there would be no chance he’d be lining up round 1 and he would be given atleast a month in the VFL before senior selection. It will be like lamb to slaughter come round 1 if we persist.

I was trying to find the article from 2017 about how we tried to hide Swallow on a forward flank when his form dipped and this is all too similar.
Spitta got so much more out of his career and was our best captain since Carey. So the when the end finally came for a pick 45, the fact he had a couple of prelims under his belt and 8 or so finals, he was content to call it a day.
I don’t think Jack is there yet and I think his legacy as Captain from 2017-2021 hurts him deep down.
His winning record is the worst in the AFL era and time is running out to attest to that.
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Like i said earlier who says if Jack was not Captain he would not get a game. Has the coach mentioned it any ass coaches anyone on the commitee or is it just a handful of posters on big footy oinion.
 
pupstar said:
Like i said earlier who says if Jack was not Captain he would not get a game. Has the coach mentioned it any ass coaches anyone on the commitee or is it just a handful of posters on big footy oinion.
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People on this forum do talk shallot of s**t, so I'll go with the last one.

Plus back in the real world, I hardly think Nobes or any of the butt coaches are about to come out and publicly say "Yeah nah, top bloke, but wouldn't be getting a game if he wasn't Captain", so to be fair it's a bit of a weird scenario that you're suggesting.
 
The Other Dean said:
People on this forum do talk shallot of sh*t, so I'll go with the last one.

Plus back in the real world, I hardly think Nobes or any of the butt coaches are about to come out and publicly say "Yeah nah, top bloke, but wouldn't be getting a game if he wasn't Captain", so to be fair it's a bit of a weird scenario that you're suggesting.
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Don't underestimate the role of the butt coaches this year. We'll cop a reaming or 3 so repair work will be necessary.
 
pupstar said:
Like i said earlier who says if Jack was not Captain he would not get a game. Has the coach mentioned it any ass coaches anyone on the commitee or is it just a handful of posters on big footy oinion.
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Were you around in 2017? There is no right way or rule book on how to treat a leader in decline. Swallow went from leading the club out in a final to literally five games later being dropped altogether after find himself on a forward flank. The end comes quickly once the game goes past you. It’s unforgivingly brutal.

Did you not see how Coniglio was treated last year when he was dropped? Noble has to be very careful how he approaches this and I feel for him cause hiding Jack behind the ball seems the honorable and right thing to do towards a man who has broken bones for the jumper. Tbh Noble could probably only get away with this tactic this year.

Keeping off field discretions aside, being a captain and out of form would have to be the one of the most stressful positions a footballer could find themselves in.
There is no way a leader of 44 men and an organization as large as an AFL football club is going to be hung out to dry. Especially by his coach.
It doesn’t happen.

Ziebell was saved from the forward line by Nobel because he literally had the yips last year and it got worse after 2019.
If he was to play midfield ahead of Jy, LDU, Thomas and co - Noble would be doing himself a disservice as he’s stunting the development of the team to accommodate a club champion.

Its just a s**t position to find ourselves in.
 
Watching live, I was bearish on Jack as a defender. On the tape it was a little more positive.

He looks like he can read it well if allowed to always be the spare and he has good movement swiveling out of trouble (or through it) and kicking long.

If it works, he's Hurn or Rich rather than Houli or Saad.
 
I'm pretty bullish about Jack in this position. I've always thought it suited him.

He reads the play well, and is a good field kick when not winning his own ball. We know he can win his own pill.

We also desperately need someone who can win or halve a ground ball contest in the back half, and we need someone to throw their weight around down there.

The main negative I have foreseen is him not keeping his feet. Losing his feet has been a big feature of his game for years now and is likely borne out of being at the coalface for so long. If he can fix this I reckon he'll shock a few naysayers this year.

His move back there will benefit Atley the most, IMO.
 
Jack’s proud, he’ll come back, being a defender is team first and honestly the move should’ve happened years ago, it’ll probably be an eye opener for him watching back the tapes.
In 5 games I suspect we’ll have a player.
onwards and upwards Jack.
 
The Other Dean said:
People on this forum do talk shallot of sh*t, so I'll go with the last one.

Plus back in the real world, I hardly think Nobes or any of the butt coaches are about to come out and publicly say "Yeah nah, top bloke, but wouldn't be getting a game if he wasn't Captain", so to be fair it's a bit of a weird scenario that you're suggesting.
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Why is it weird with all the in the knows on this board i hear about surly some one would have herd it said if he was not Capt he would not get a game .Thing like that do not get un said if it has been mentioned and everyone knows things like that are always leaked to the media or ITK. Every one knocked Brad for playing players not deserving of a game. So is Noble doing this already right at the start of his coaching career So posters that truly believe 100% that Zebs should not be in the team and there is plenty of them how can they have faith in Nobles coaching plans playing a player not worthy of a game or the other option is he is a lot smarter than all of us and has 100% trust in him. I believe the 2nd option 100%.
 
pupstar said:
Why is it weird with all the in the knows on this board i hear about surly some one would have herd it said if he was not Capt he would not get a game .Thing like that do not get un said if it has been mentioned and everyone knows things like that are always leaked to the media or ITK. Every one knocked Brad for playing players not deserving of a game. So is Noble doing this already right at the start of his coaching career So posters that truly believe 100% that Zebs should not be in the team and there is plenty of them how can they have faith in Nobles coaching plans playing a player not worthy of a game or the other option is he is a lot smarter than all of us and has 100% trust in him. I believe the 2nd option 100%.
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Noble still hasn't coached a single senior game. The pre-season is for trying these things. If after round six Ziebel has given up 24 goals to his direct opponents, is still regularly giving away poor turnovers, and gets picked for round 7, then maybe you would have a valid complaint.
 
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