List Mgmt. 7 Players wanting out? (only 7?)

[Crowboto]

"they loved Pyke in the early going, but they don't now."

I'm sorry, but it's obviously losing the Grand Final that has sewn all of this. Everything went up the s**t after that. Not before. It was completely fine before.

But they lost the Grand Final because they are participating in an unfair league.

Now, the players - and the fans - aren't going to internalise it that way. The players can't afford to and the fans, well, also sort of can't afford to. But it is the reason. And we are going to go through a lot of pain over many, many years before fans are ready to handle that this is the reason.

All the fallout is what happens when something like this happens. These are the ramifications for getting f’ed in the arse.

The women would not be able to be the beautifully executed, ruthless, happy and successful unit they are with the player retention record they have, if the same people at the top were as useless as made out.

It's the same people. Phil Harper. Andrew Fagan. Rob Chapman. Matthew Clarke. We literally have one of our assistant coaches from our men's squad coaching our women.

It doesn't follow.

Maybe in 20 years people will be ready to talk, but West Coast potting one from the boundary after conceding a 5 goal start hasn't erased anything. It will not go away, it is just how long until people get sick of Victoria hogging all the flags.

The Eagles,Lions and Swans have a pretty good record of "hogging flags". Last time i checked none of them are Victorian based.

 

[marty36]

I reiterate - most opinion is garbage. Almost all of the staff writers on the AFL had Melbourne winning a flag this year or playing off in a GF at the very least. They were very, very wrong. They could well be as wrong about the quality of each lists under 23s.

So in your opinion who is most qualified to report on these things

Maybe we should as Collingwood or Richmond

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[Miss Vanessa]

So in your opinion who is most qualified to report on these things

Maybe we should as Collingwood or Richmond

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I’m happy for people to write opinion pieces and for people to then talk about them. Hell, I love talking crap about sport. But to definitively state that the Crows have the worst under 23 talent in the league because staff writers at the AFL website say so is more than a little silly. Again, wait five years. Then we’ll actually know about this crop of players and how they go.

 

[hey shorty]

The Eagles,Lions and Swans have a pretty good record of "hogging flags". Last time i checked none of them are Victorian based.

2 of those 3 clubs were heavily assisted in doing so.

West Coast are who we should be benchmarking ourselves against. Yeah they've done some poor things and had a terribly toxic culture..... but it works.

 

[marty36]

I’m happy for people to write opinion pieces and for people to then talk about them. Hell, I love talking crap about sport. But to definitively state that the Crows have the worst under 23 talent in the league because staff writers at the AFL website say so is more than a little silly. Again, wait five years. Then we’ll actually know about this crop of players and how they go.

That's fair but I also think it's fair for the afl to be accepted as the most reliable source

And if we wait 5 years the opinion will be about u/28 s not u/23s

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[Mismatched]

"Once we found out what we were up against with Phil, we put an offer together ... that was way, way, way over any offer to a 20-game player in the history of this football club," Harper said.

"It still wasn't in the ballpark ... I don't think we as a club could have done any more to keep Phil here.”

Phil’s an interesting one, was clearly a highly talented player whom we could build our defense around, future captain even. The thing with Phil though is we managed to draw reasonable value from his departure, plus if he’d stayed Talia potentially lacks opportunity and doesn’t develop.

Dangerfield and Cameron are probably the biggest losses, plus possibly Lever and McGovern.

Tippett hurt by the fact that not only did we lose him for nothing, but we lost key draft picks because of it. Whilst his best was probably better and more valuable than Jenkins, he never achieved great consistency in form or injury at Sydney.

Gunston hurt, but probably managed to cover cheaply with Lynch.

Bock was elite, but his departure offered opportunity to Davis and later Talia. Plus he was always injured.

Not necessarily excusing the loss of these players, but we did do well to cover the loss of a number of them. The trouble is it meant we were always chasing our tail from a recruiting perspective and perhaps unable to address other areas as a result.

 

[hey shorty]

Probably shows you can find talented defenders pretty easily

 

[arrowman]

That's fair but I also think it's fair for the afl to be accepted as the most reliable source

Oh for pity's sake. It's not "the AFL" giving a definitive assessment, it's a journo employed by the AFL to create media content, giving an opinion.

How anyone could describe that as "the most reliable source" is beyond me.

 

[arrowman]

Phil’s an interesting one, was clearly a highly talented player whom we could build our defense around, future captain even. The thing with Phil though is we managed to draw reasonable value from his departure, plus if he’d stayed Talia potentially lacks opportunity and doesn’t develop.

Dangerfield and Cameron are probably the biggest losses, plus possibly Lever and McGovern.

Tippett hurt by the fact that not only did we lose him for nothing, but we lost key draft picks because of it. Whilst his best was probably better and more valuable than Jenkins, he never achieved great consistency in form or injury at Sydney.

Gunston hurt, but probably managed to cover cheaply with Lynch.

Bock was elite, but his departure offered opportunity to Davis and later Talia. Plus he was always injured.

Not necessarily excusing the loss of these players, but we did do well to cover the loss of a number of them. The trouble is it meant we were always chasing our tail from a recruiting perspective and perhaps unable to address other areas as a result.

Very good assessment.

On McGovern, though - I'm not convinced he was such a great loss. Sure he was important in 2017, but the 2 seasons since, when he should have been a key player and best 22 every week for Carlton, have shown that maybe our club was right to be a bit meh about him leaving. Maybe they knew him better than the supporters did.

 

[tinman]

On McGovern, though - I'm not convinced he was such a great loss. Sure he was important in 2017, but the 2 seasons since, when he should have been a key player and best 22 every week for Carlton, have shown that maybe our club was right to be a bit meh about him leaving. Maybe they knew him better than the supporters did.

Supporters love to watch players with talent and remember the little "cameos" that guys like Greenwood and McGovern love to show sporadically.

Coaches love the guys who work hard and get the best out of themselves, even if they have limited talent.

Teams need a bit of a balance of both, and of course the coaches want the talented players to work harder. If you look at us at the moment, it's the guys with talent getting dropped like Gibbs and Greenwood, even Jenkins. Limited guys like Murphy and Mackay get games.

Mind you, the data says that we're the worst running team in the comp. So maybe the coaches are onto something.

At the moment though, it's not working well.

 

[marty36]

Oh for pity's sake. It's not "the AFL" giving a definitive assessment, it's a journo employed by the AFL to create media content, giving an opinion.

How anyone could describe that as "the most reliable source" is beyond me.

So who would you suggest is the most reliable source?

Elite crow

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[arrowman]

So who would you suggest is the most reliable source?

Elite crow

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Terry Wallace, obviously.

 

[kulak]

So who would you suggest is the most reliable source?

Elite crow

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AFL player ratings has a relative rating they update each week which compares players output to the average for their position and age

If you believe that, ROB is our only above average young player. Atkins Kelly Milera are about average.

Would it look better if Fog Jones etc were playing regular football? Are they missing out because of awful selection or are they just not that good?

Time will tell

 

[MRB37]

AFL player ratings has a relative rating they update each week which compares players output to the average for their position and age

If you believe that, ROB is our only above average young player. Atkins Kelly Milera are about average.

Would it look better if Fog Jones etc were playing regular football? Are they missing out because of awful selection or are they just not that good?

Time will tell

AFL player ratings are always weird though. Patrick Cripps doesn't make their team of the year for example.

 

[MRB37]

Supporters love to watch players with talent and remember the little "cameos" that guys like Greenwood and McGovern love to show sporadically.

Coaches love the guys who work hard and get the best out of themselves, even if they have limited talent.

Teams need a bit of a balance of both, and of course the coaches want the talented players to work harder. If you look at us at the moment, it's the guys with talent getting dropped like Gibbs and Greenwood, even Jenkins. Limited guys like Murphy and Mackay get games.

Mind you, the data says that we're the worst running team in the comp. So maybe the coaches are onto something.

At the moment though, it's not working well.

The loss of McGovern was his one elite trait balanced out our entire forward line. His production is easily replaceable, but having the guy there to crash a pack and cause some havoc in the air complimented the other forwards perfectly.

Hopefully McAdam can bring some of that next year.

 

[marty36]

AFL player ratings has a relative rating they update each week which compares players output to the average for their position and age

If you believe that, ROB is our only above average young player. Atkins Kelly Milera are about average.

Would it look better if Fog Jones etc were playing regular football? Are they missing out because of awful selection or are they just not that good?

Time will tell

The u/23 players are rated on the games they play if it's SANFL or afl

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[marty36]

AFL player ratings has a relative rating they update each week which compares players output to the average for their position and age

If you believe that, ROB is our only above average young player. Atkins Kelly Milera are about average.

Would it look better if Fog Jones etc were playing regular football? Are they missing out because of awful selection or are they just not that good?

Time will tell

I know the apricot slice brigade won't like the fact we have been rated worst u23 talent

But it is what it is

Maybe the external review will see these and say we have NFI how to recruit obviously with this wonderful assessment of our u23 talent by a neutral

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[Mike Smyth]

Since the premiership years we have not missed finals for 3 consecutive years. I think we might win 1 more game this year and just miss out. If we finally start the rebuild next year then you think we will miss in 2020 for the 3rd consecutive year. No way in hell will PYKE survive into 2021.

 

[mtbkym]

Terry Wallace, obviously.

Of course “The List Manager” knows all lol

 

[pjcrows]

We won't win a game again, and Don will be sacked.

 

[arrowman]

Of course “The List Manager” knows all lol

I think marty is Terry Wallace.

 

[marty36]

I think marty is Terry Wallace.

Young Terry would rate our u23 as low as the AFL bofins

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[1991firstgamer]

"they loved Pyke in the early going, but they don't now."

I'm sorry, but it's obviously losing the Grand Final that has sewn all of this. Everything went up the s**t after that. Not before. It was completely fine before.

But they lost the Grand Final because they are participating in an unfair league.

Now, the players - and the fans - aren't going to internalise it that way. The players can't afford to and the fans, well, also sort of can't afford to. But it is the reason. And we are going to go through a lot of pain over many, many years before fans are ready to handle that this is the reason.

All the fallout is what happens when something like this happens. These are the ramifications for getting f’ed in the arse.

The women would not be able to be the beautifully executed, ruthless, happy and successful unit they are with the player retention record they have, if the same people at the top were as useless as made out.

It's the same people. Phil Harper. Andrew Fagan. Rob Chapman. Matthew Clarke. We literally have one of our assistant coaches from our men's squad coaching our women.

It doesn't follow.

Maybe in 20 years people will be ready to talk, but West Coast potting one from the boundary after conceding a 5 goal start hasn't erased anything. It will not go away, it is just how long until people get sick of Victoria hogging all the flags.

At this point it's endemic and therefore futile
It's why the game will never see a another dollar from me

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[Kane McGoodwin]

I think marty is Terry Wallace.

That Doedee is a dud as I have never heard of him...

Jonty Sharenberg is a gun.

Hard to judge our under 23 talent properly until they start playing AFL... which unfortunately they should be playing more games given the ordinary form of some older players.

 

[marty36]

That Doedee is a dud as I have never heard of him...

Jonty Sharenberg is a gun.

Hard to judge our under 23 talent properly until they start playing AFL... which unfortunately they should be playing more games given the ordinary form of some older players.

They are judged at the SANFL level as they are playing weekly

You can ignore if you like, but a neutral employed by the AFL rates our u23 talent the worst in the AFL

And yet you still believe we have the best recruitment manager in the league, which lets be honest is hilarious in itself

Face the facts but I'm sure you will come up with some lame excuses, but go ahead

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