7News: Major Review into the AFL, independent of the AFL & the 18 Clubs, will start early 2021.

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LoungeLizard

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 15, 2009
9,374
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gippsland
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Collingwood
No, its only sold that way, maybe I can offer you a 2021 Commodore?

We add 100 odd 2nd tier players & they are elite then?
I do concede that was the Vic belief in the VFL days, they called the VFL senior footy (Polly debuted at 27 with a couple of AAs to his name). Barrie Robran, et al.

Got a bit of the John Elliot about you Lizzie?
I think you have lost the plot.

Do you actually understand what i asked?

Actually don't bother, you make no sense anyway.
 

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Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
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You're kind of wrong and right at the same time, I'm talking about the 2020 GF in isolation. Take that out and I can't really argue your point.

The 2020 GF was at Freo oval, they only sold 10k tickets because of Covid, initially the number was lower. I'm not sure how they could have fit much more than 10k in tbh. But the demand was there for more tickets.
It was kind of an odd occasion tbh. Tight game, quiet crowd till the last few minutes.

Fwiw, South Freo are probably the most analagous team to Collingwood in th old WAFL. Huge following in back in the day, similar temperament, fan background, similarly passionate. Punchy when their team is losing.
Was East Freo pre the AFL.
Nothing like going down there & returning with a win - some of my best H&A memories are sitting on the banks at East Ftle Oval.
 

mcfazza28

Debutant
Jul 16, 2011
113
150
London
AFL Club
West Coast
In my opinion its about the game at the elite level & the game nationally ..... what we've got is neither.
Because it’s a national league with too many Victorian clubs diluting the quality and compromising the fixture.

This also leads to a myopic focus on Melbourne. Yes Melbourne is the home of the game and the most supporters but it’s a national league. The league needs to do some thing to make a statement about being national post this review.

The biggest statements would be reducing the amount of teams in Melbourne or sharing the GF.
 

mcfazza28

Debutant
Jul 16, 2011
113
150
London
AFL Club
West Coast
No, its only sold that way, maybe I can offer you a 2021 Commodore?

We add 100 odd 2nd tier players & they are elite then?
I do concede that was the Vic belief in the VFL days, they called the VFL senior footy (Polly debuted at 27 with a couple of AAs to his name). Barrie Robran, et al.

Got a bit of the John Elliot about you Lizzie?
I agree with Kwality. It’s badged as a national league but isn’t. It’s an expanded VFL run to offer just enough to interstate whilst maintaining as much of the status quo as possible.

That is what is being delivered sarcastically isn’t it Kwality
 

LoungeLizard

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 15, 2009
9,374
7,544
gippsland
AFL Club
Collingwood
I agree with Kwality. It’s badged as a national league but isn’t. It’s an expanded VFL run to offer just enough to interstate whilst maintaining as much of the status quo as possible.

That is what is being delivered sarcastically isn’t it Kwality
I agree it's an expanded comp, but whose fault is that?

If what i think Kwality was saying, is he wants to reduce clubs so we only get the top end of players, and we would, but at the moment the league is tier 1, the elite level, just because some are not up to it does not make it non elite.

Look at cricket, they only have 11 players, the best from each country, but some are just not up to test standard (elite)
 

Papa G

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 13, 2006
25,493
51,910
The Bitter End
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Because it’s a national league with too many Victorian clubs diluting the quality and compromising the fixture.

This also leads to a myopic focus on Melbourne. Yes Melbourne is the home of the game and the most supporters but it’s a national league. The league needs to do some thing to make a statement about being national post this review.

The biggest statements would be reducing the amount of teams in Melbourne or sharing the GF.
There's also a sense that completely undeserving clubs are in the league for no other reason but location and incumbency. Who now exist to simply backup the 6 Victorian clubs the league actually gives a sh*t about and to maintain the social cohesion of a fragile city as an opiate of the masses for a dystopian socialist state government.
 

mcfazza28

Debutant
Jul 16, 2011
113
150
London
AFL Club
West Coast
I agree it's an expanded comp, but whose fault is that?

If what i think Kwality was saying, is he wants to reduce clubs so we only get the top end of players, and we would, but at the moment the league is tier 1, the elite level, just because some are not up to it does not make it non elite.

Look at cricket, they only have 11 players, the best from each country, but some are just not up to test standard (elite)
That’s a really interesting point. That just because a player is in the tier 1 league it doesn’t mean they are elite.

International cricket is an interesting comparison. You are correct that not all test playing nations are elite in terms of set up.

However, a national league where you control its composition yourself is a little different.

We have the power to change the league, make it better, higher standard and fairer. You notice I left out more profitable.

Vested interests and maintenance of the status quo is hard to disrupt. It’s hard to change something that has many merits but is also extremely biased towards one geographic area.

When I lived in Perth I was the small, forgotten about province ignored by the capital.

Now I live in London I’m the capital dweller ignoring the provincials.

That said, there is little geographic discrimination in English football. Much of this is due to the fact they have the FA above it. The FA are useless at many things but just saw off a power grab where the big teams tried to grab control of the Premier League.

The biggest problem in Australian Rules is that the AFL now run the game as well as the league and this is a massive conflict of interest. A national body could sit the AFL down and say “this is too Victorian centric and too focused on big Victorian teams revenue and small Victorian teams survival and it’s killing the standard, fixture and fairness.”

Can we agree that we need change? This league isn’t elite as it has too many Victorian teams reducing the quality and compromising the fixture.
 

mcfazza28

Debutant
Jul 16, 2011
113
150
London
AFL Club
West Coast
There's also a sense that completely undeserving clubs are in the league for no other reason but location and incumbency. Who now exist to simply backup the 6 Victorian clubs the league actually gives a sh*t about and to maintain the social cohesion of a fragile city as an opiate of the masses for a dystopian socialist state government.
You just described geographic entitlement in a much more succinct way than me Papa. Although, can’t comment on Dan Andrews. I also live in Fragile London so criticism would be hypocritical
 

LoungeLizard

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 15, 2009
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That’s a really interesting point. That just because a player is in the tier 1 league it doesn’t mean they are elite.

International cricket is an interesting comparison. You are correct that not all test playing nations are elite in terms of set up.

However, a national league where you control its composition yourself is a little different.

We have the power to change the league, make it better, higher standard and fairer. You notice I left out more profitable.

Vested interests and maintenance of the status quo is hard to disrupt. It’s hard to change something that has many merits but is also extremely biased towards one geographic area.

When I lived in Perth I was the small, forgotten about province ignored by the capital.

Now I live in London I’m the capital dweller ignoring the provincials.

That said, there is little geographic discrimination in English football. Much of this is due to the fact they have the FA above it. The FA are useless at many things but just saw off a power grab where the big teams tried to grab control of the Premier League.

The biggest problem in Australian Rules is that the AFL now run the game as well as the league and this is a massive conflict of interest. A national body could sit the AFL down and say “this is too Victorian centric and too focused on big Victorian teams revenue and small Victorian teams survival and it’s killing the standard, fixture and fairness.”

Can we agree that we need change? This league isn’t elite as it has too many Victorian teams reducing the quality and compromising the fixture.
The league isn't elite you say?

Name me an Australian Rules Football league that is better?

Change?
With less clubs, playing only the best of the best, would the game be a better standard?

Probably would, most likely would, but it's not a given.

Playing only the best players, you are also risking more congestion, the game could actually go backwards in standard.

As far as less clubs go, i am against culling clubs, just because some supporters think they are hard done by, my opinion on that is.
If the game is so bad, don't watch it, go watch a different sport, club supporters here have just as much invested as you have.
 

BringBackTorps

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2017
2,320
1,418
AFL Club
GWS
Really like to know just how bad the deals are for the tennant clubs at Marvel. I know that the SANFL makes on average around a million in revenue for each game at AO.
There is a whole recent Thread, as you know, answering your question- see "How The Small Melbourne Clubs Saved Footy" ie allowed DS to be built, & eventually owned by the AFL.
This Thread is about "how football will look in the next few decades"- & does not need to be hijacked further.


Girls footy is growing just as it is everywhere else. It is one priority but not the only one and the WAFC have far bigger things to sort than AFLW
I did not refer to the AFLW. I only referred to WA's (which is under WAFC control) very poor record in its GR female club player nos.
Qld., a RL state, puts WA to shame re GR female club nos. Ditto, on per capita terms, RL heartland Newcastle/ Hunter & Wollongong/Illawarra's GR female club nos.


In my opinion its about the game at the elite level & the game nationally ..... what we've got is neither.
Your complaint that the current AFL is not elite/Vic. Club nos. need to be reduced has been clearly refuted many times before, in various Threads, by many BF posters- but, like a broken record, you continue to regurgitate these false claims.

I have provided you with this HPNFooty link below several times, re the record no. of GR AF players in Aust., which justifies increasing the no. of AFL clubs to 18; & does not dilute the skill levels of the average player. There is also a much higher record now from NSW, ACT & Qld., where AF GR nos. are booming (& who currently have provided c. 105+ Drafted players in the AFL). The Draft Pool of players in recent years, therefore, has been considerably widened.

Furtermore, the kicking skills of the average AFL player is much higher now, cf the 70's & 80's (excluding set shots at goal, where there is little difference in goal kicking accuracy). Handballing is also, now, much more slick & speedy. Much heavier congestion now causes the game to be more scrappy.

Why don't you try, for the first time ever, to refute the figures/no dilution of quality etc. in the HPN article & evidence on increased Draft nos. from NSW, ACT, & Qld. etc. (& other info. in my post #319, linked below).

(Scroll to my post# 319)




Because it’s a national league with too many Victorian clubs diluting the quality
Ditto my comments to Kwality, to you.

The biggest statements would be reducing the amount of teams in Melbourne or sharing the GF.
You are entitled to your opinion- which you, & others, have made infinitum in this Thread. And many have also made convincing rebuttals in this Thread.

You have previously been advised there is a contract to hold the GF at the MCG to 2057, so it is extremely unlikely it will be part of the Scope of the Review.

Similarly, G. McLachlan said several months ago, paraphrasing, "18 teams went in pre-covid, & 18 will continue after covid". Thus, it is very unlikely the Scope of the Review will consider any change to the current 18 teams.
There is also the irrefutable importance of the Rights' $ quantum, requiring content: crucially, 18 teams, & 9 matches pw. You & others blithely ignore this.

Instead of continuing to hijack this Thread, if you wish to persevere with your preferred agendas (which are not relevant to this Thread), why don't you start your own Thread:

"The VFL/AFL forced WA & SA to join it, & forced them to agree to the GF being played at the MCG. Reduce the amount of teams In Melbourne, & share the GF with other states".
 
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Kwality

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Aug 14, 2011
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I agree with Kwality. It’s badged as a national league but isn’t. It’s an expanded VFL run to offer just enough to interstate whilst maintaining as much of the status quo as possible.

That is what is being delivered sarcastically isn’t it Kwality
Alleluia .... the Olympic 100 metre final is limited to the best 8 not increased every so often. Thats an elite sport at its purest.
 

1970crow

Hall of Famer
Jun 7, 2011
39,138
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Adelaide
As an interstate fan, I don't care that the final is held at the MCG...I mean it would be great for it to move around like the NFL but you know biggest stadium, tradition except when it was held at Waverly. What would be better is that interstate teams had a minimum of 4 games ( I'd prefer 5) a year on the ground as I believe that nullifies the whole "it's their home ground" thing. If you get 5 games a year there and you aren't able to feel comfortable there come GF, tough luck.

On topic though, if I was a low hanging fruit at AFL house, I'd be shitting myself about the review, cause there will be a sacrificial lamb but it's sure to be some poor campaigner who is barely making his mortgage repayments, not Gil and his cronies
I'd be worried if I was Gill. Wouldn't be surprised if it's a way to get him out.
 

Rich01

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 5, 2004
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There's also a sense that completely undeserving clubs are in the league for no other reason but location and incumbency. Who now exist to simply backup the 6 Victorian clubs the league actually gives a sh*t about and to maintain the social cohesion of a fragile city as an opiate of the masses for a dystopian socialist state government.
This is hilarious. Thank you!
 

Johnny Bananas

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 10, 2010
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Can we agree that we need change? This league isn’t elite as it has too many Victorian teams reducing the quality and compromising the fixture.
No. The league is elite. The quality is fine, and the fixture would be compromised even if you killed off the four smallest Victorian teams. I can see an argument for merging the smallest and poorest of them purely to ensure they're sustainable in the long term, but all of them are popular enough to survive in the short to medium term. On top of which, Melbourne was the fastest growing city in Australia before Covid.
 

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
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Instead of continuing to hijack this Thread, if you wish to persevere with your preferred agendas (which are not relevant to this Thread), why don't you start your own Thread:

"The VFL/AFL forced WA & SA to join it, & forced them to agree to the GF being played at the MCG. Reduce the amount of teams In Melbourne, & share the GF with other states".
I reacted to the claim that the comp is elite - whether any review goes there must address all the issues - what season 2021 is able to deliver will shape this.

By the way I dont accept your statement, its based in folklore no more.
 

Kwality

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No. The league is elite. The quality is fine, and the fixture would be compromised even if you killed off the four smallest Victorian teams. I can see an argument for merging the smallest and poorest of them purely to ensure they're sustainable in the long term, but all of them are popular enough to survive in the short to medium term. On top of which, Melbourne was the fastest growing city in Australia before Covid.
Happy to disagree.
 

mcfazza28

Debutant
Jul 16, 2011
113
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There is a whole recent Thread, as you know, answering your question- see "How The Small Melbourne Clubs Saved Footy".
This Thread is about "how football will look in the next few decades"- & does not need to be hijacked further.


I did not refer to the AFLW. I only referred to WA's (which is under WAFC control) very poor record in its no. of GR female club nos.
Qld., a RL state, puts WA to shame re GR female club nos. Ditto, Newcastle/ Hunter & Wollongong/Illawarra's female GR club record.


Your complaint that the current AFL is not elite has been refuted many times before, in various Threads, by many BF posters- but, like a broken record, you continue to make this false claim.

I have provided you with this HPNFooty link below several times, re the record no. of GR AF players in Aust., which justifies increasing the no. of clubs/does not dilute the average quality. There are also a much higher record no. from NSW, ACT & Qld., where AF GR nos. are booming (& who currently have provided c.105+ Drafted players in the AFL).
The Draft Pool of players, therefore, has been considerably widened. The kicking skills of the average AFL player is now much higher now, cf the 70's & 80's (excluding set shots at goal, where there is little difference in goal kicking accurracy)

Why don't you try, for the first time ever, to refute the figures etc. in the HPN article on increased Draft nos. from NSW, ACT, & Qld. (& other info. in my post #319).






Ditto my comments to Kwality, to you.


You are entitled to your opinion- which you, & others, have made infinitum in this Thread. And many have also made convincing rebuttals in this Thread.

You have previously been advised there is a contract to hold the GF at the MCG to 2057, so it is extremely unlikely it will be part of the Scope of the Review.

Similarly, G. McLachlan said several months ago, paraphrasing, "18 teams went in pre-covid, & 18 will continue after covid".
Thus, it is very unlikely the Scope of the Review will include considerations to change the current 18 teams. There is also the irrefutable importance of the Rights' deals quantum requiring content: crucially, 18 teams, & 9 matches pw. It will not change.

Instead of continuing to hijack this Thread, if you wish to persevere with your preferred agendas (which are not relevant to this Thread), why don't you start your own Thread:

"The VFL/AFL forced WA & SA to join it, & forced them to agree to the GF being played at the MCG. Reduce the amount of teams In Melbourne, & share the GF with other states".
As often in life there are different points of view. I accept you point of view and you accept mine. However, you wish to suppress my point of view and limit the terms of the thread to your perception of what is correct.

I have had some great chats on here and it opens my eyes to the small Victorian club supporters view.

I may be right, I may be wrong but I have the right to articulate my view. Many other people agree.

When I post I try to look for solutions and not attack or offend.

One football future may be less clubs and one may be more.

Let’s at least discuss it. I went to the first Eagles game in 1987 and it’s still too Victorian centric in stricture. I get the money is there but one of the 3 biggest, if not the biggest, club is in WA!
 

mcfazza28

Debutant
Jul 16, 2011
113
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No. The league is elite. The quality is fine, and the fixture would be compromised even if you killed off the four smallest Victorian teams. I can see an argument for merging the smallest and poorest of them purely to ensure they're sustainable in the long term, but all of them are popular enough to survive in the short to medium term. On top of which, Melbourne was the fastest growing city in Australia before Covid.
Not if the league was:
Carlton
Collingwood
Richmond
Essendon
Hawthorn
Geelong
Sydney
GWS
Brisbane
Gold Coast
Adelaide
Port Adelaide
West Coast
Fremantle

Melbourne still has 5 teams which is 3 more than any other city. E.g Perth 2m with 2 teams v Melbourne 5m with 5 teams. Seems fair geographically and respects Melbourne as the home of Oz sport with 6 of 14 teams and triple what any other state has.

If we want the volume route go to 20 with 19 rounds and no double ups. Oh and the 2 new teams must be interstate.

I’m flexible
 

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