7News: Major Review into the AFL, independent of the AFL & the 18 Clubs, will start early 2021.

[pablo668]

I dont disagree to a point, but consider for example since the introduction of your team to the afl in around 1990 that Melbournes population has grown from 3.1 million to 5.0 million today, and is expected to keep going.

Whilst a case could be made at this stage to relocate or merge up to 3 - 4 Melbourne based teams, the afl will be very cautious rationalising its heartland when the market is still growing unless it can as a minimum break even. It cant afford losing the majority of 40,000-50,000 members and 100,000s of fans per smaller club at the moment.

Between them, St.Kllda Bulldogs North and Melbourne represent a current market at least equal to any non Vic state. Its alot to lose even if you ignore the hurdle of tradition.

Maybe one team could be relocated to Tassie if the fans in Vic were looked after but unless things get reall grim i dont see much more happening at the moment. Longer term, could be a different story.

This is an aside, not exactly on topic but hey.
I know nothing of how Melbourne is laid out, how spread out it is etc.
One of the things that did the WAFL no favours over here was when the population here grew, the city spread right out (road city like Los Angeles), all the traditional WAFL clubs were inner city and this led to the comp losing a bit of relevance, despite the larger population.
Like I said, I don't know how this has played out in Melbourne, is that population growth conveniently situated/as into the footy as in previous years?

 

[Doggy Dan]

Geez the whinging about the GF location just won’t quit. It’ tradition, it’s a Melbourne based sport, it is the spiritual home of the game and the season has and always will culminate each year with the GF parade and Grand Final at the MCG. If you don’t like it follow another sport. I find this argument akin to saying the Tour De France shouldn’t finish in Paris every year!

 

[Veer Right]

Remove Steve Hocking permanently from anything umpiring related and that will be a huge win in itself for every fan in the AFL.

 

[beema limapep]

This is an aside, not exactly on topic but hey.
I know nothing of how Melbourne is laid out, how spread out it is etc.
One of the things that did the WAFL no favours over here was when the population here grew, the city spread right out (road city like Los Angeles), all the traditional WAFL clubs were inner city and this led to the comp losing a bit of relevance, despite the larger population.
Like I said, I don't know how this has played out in Melbourne, is that population growth conveniently situated/as into the footy as in previous years?

Its happened in Melbourne as well to an extent although you still get areas more prone to following certain teams. This is based on generational migration patterns from original suburbs and catchments.

I think that because football is so deeply engrained in our culture alot of new immigrants become interested and involved, although there are many who probably dont.

 

[Freshwater]

This is an aside, not exactly on topic but hey.
I know nothing of how Melbourne is laid out, how spread out it is etc.
One of the things that did the WAFL no favours over here was when the population here grew, the city spread right out (road city like Los Angeles), all the traditional WAFL clubs were inner city and this led to the comp losing a bit of relevance, despite the larger population.
Like I said, I don't know how this has played out in Melbourne, is that population growth conveniently situated/as into the footy as in previous years?

Melbourne was very well positioned to take on the growth of suburbia all through the 20th century even though all teams were established before WWI. Melbourne sits at the top of an A shaped bay and the suburbs go out like spokes of a wheel. It was actually South Melbourne and Fitzroy who were the most cramped in and looked what happened to them? Footscray was the most remote until the West Gate bridge was finished in 1978.

 

[Freshwater]

In public space, you never have a review unless you already know what the outcome is.

Likely outcome will be to do nothing, pat everyone on the back and shift more funds from rich clubs to poor clubs.

I suppose you see your own club as a rich club? But they are a ‘rich’ club because they are a participant and leverage off 100 plus years of traditional suburban rivalry. That cultural equity can not be counted by committees, but is still the glue that holds this competition together. Especially in teams going through lean periods.

 

[74561347]

Large crowds attending major sporting events are embedded in our sporting culture and have been for decades. Its a collective core value of Victorians which has helped underpin the growth of the game.

You dont get the same culture in qld and nsw, whilst SA and WA are just mini versions of vic in the same respect.

yeah, qld and nsw dont get crowds to anything. only if you ignore over 100 years of cricket, state of origin, olympics, 2 commonwealth games in qld, brisbane average crowds of 25k in a non afl state since 1997, sydney ave 27k since they moved up there in 82 (and were properly s**t for alot of that time), and holds the record for largest afl crowd outside of victoria. nsw holds the records for the largest crowds to a league game, union game, soccer game, tennis match, netball game, athletics event and swimming event. qld has pulled over 50k at suncorp for nrl games, and the highest ever a league crowd was in sydney.

yep. no culture of attending major sporting events in the northern states.

 

[spenze]

As an interstate fan, I don't care that the final is held at the MCG...I mean it would be great for it to move around like the NFL but you know biggest stadium, tradition except when it was held at Waverly. What would be better is that interstate teams had a minimum of 4 games ( I'd prefer 5) a year on the ground as I believe that nullifies the whole "it's their home ground" thing. If you get 5 games a year there and you aren't able to feel comfortable there come GF, tough luck.

On topic though, if I was a low hanging fruit at AFL house, I'd be shitting myself about the review, cause there will be a sacrificial lamb but it's sure to be some poor campaigner who is barely making his mortgage repayments, not Gil and his cronies

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

As an interstate fan, I don't care that the final is held at the MCG...I mean it would be great for it to move around like the NFL but you know biggest stadium, tradition except when it was held at Waverly. What would be better is that interstate teams had a minimum of 4 games ( I'd prefer 5) a year on the ground as I believe that nullifies the whole "it's their home ground" thing. If you get 5 games a year there and you aren't able to feel comfortable there come GF, tough luck.

On topic though, if I was a low hanging fruit at AFL house, I'd be shitting myself about the review, cause there will be a sacrificial lamb but it's sure to be some poor campaigner who is barely making his mortgage repayments, not Gil and his cronies

I think having all clubs who made the finals the previous year guaranteed 5 games at the MCG would help a lot

 

[The Warlord]

The review needs to explore the sustainability of an 18 team competition and whether some teams should be axed (eg. small Victorian clubs, Gold Coast, GWS) to make the game better overall

Good call.

Best way to start is to axe the worst performing club and distribute their players among the rest.

We'll have McAsey.

Whoever finished bottom next year gets cut and then we're at 16.

Every chance that is Essendon.

 

[The 747]

As an interstate fan, I don't care that the final is held at the MCG...I mean it would be great for it to move around like the NFL but you know biggest stadium, tradition except when it was held at Waverly. What would be better is that interstate teams had a minimum of 4 games ( I'd prefer 5) a year on the ground as I believe that nullifies the whole "it's their home ground" thing. If you get 5 games a year there and you aren't able to feel comfortable there come GF, tough luck.

On topic though, if I was a low hanging fruit at AFL house, I'd be shitting myself about the review, cause there will be a sacrificial lamb but it's sure to be some poor campaigner who is barely making his mortgage repayments, not Gil and his cronies

This is one of the more obvious things that the AFL could do to make the system fairer (not fair). However it would probably open them up to claims from Docklands about the amount of games scheduled there, which means in other words the vested interests associated with the AFL would lose money.

 

[Laphroaig]

They built a facility for what they've got not what might come along some day. Reality is the Eagles are the only ones filling it, all 11 times a year.
As for whining, arent you being disingenuous to the max.

No I'm not.

I'm suggesting that the whingers from West Australia and West Horsham are being grossly disingenuos to blithely ignore the cutting the crowd in half (or less) as being inconsequential.

 

[telsor]

Before we get the chequebooks out, it might be an idea to build a ground that's not going to cut the Grand Final crowd in half.

WA had the opportunity and didn't. So I can't quite understand the continued whining from the West.

In any bid, grounds other than the MCG would need to put in millions before the MCC even needs to look up from their tea and crumpets, just to make up for the lost seats.

 

[RunningBounce]

Thats assuming we had a media with a capacity to ask the right questions. Current media lot are in the AFLs pocket. Many of these are barely coherent (see Tom Brown thread or AFL 360) and have no capacity or inclination (due to big $$$ contracts with the league) to criticise those in charge.

Good post.

I'd suggest that the current media ARE the AFL - not just in their pocket. AFL Media control most of the content. They also issue the media licenses to the external journos. They set the agenda for Croc Media to follow, and the few journos left outside that machine are stuck reporting what Gerard said on SEN.

 

[Obeanie1]

When you get a bid nobody else will be able to match, putting it out to tender is a waste of time and money.

Total and utter tripe. What a typical arrogant Victorian veiw full of self interest.

Its a Victorian boys club that has zero intention of risking being outbid.

Until an open bidding process is run you dont know what the market rate is for 10, 20 or 30 years of guaranteed finals plus the GF.

As for the cost. How often would the tender be done? Once every 20 years? Wow.

I would bet a body part that the benefit of an open tender process would pay for the tender cost 1000 times over. When only one party is talkedd to what incentive is there for them to offer the best deal. They sit back (sipping their tea and nibbling crumpets) knowing they will get it anyway so why pay more.

That is how business works.

 

[beema limapep]

yeah, qld and nsw dont get crowds to anything. only if you ignore over 100 years of cricket, state of origin, olympics, 2 commonwealth games in qld, brisbane average crowds of 25k in a non afl state since 1997, sydney ave 27k since they moved up there in 82 (and were properly sh*t for alot of that time), and holds the record for largest afl crowd outside of victoria. nsw holds the records for the largest crowds to a league game, union game, soccer game, tennis match, netball game, athletics event and swimming event. qld has pulled over 50k at suncorp for nrl games, and the highest ever a league crowd was in sydney.

yep. no culture of attending major sporting events in the northern states.

I didnt say you dont get the odd large crowd, and one could provide examples and the odd record as you have, but its inherently not the same as the depth of melbournes sporting culture, consistency of large turnouts, size of crowds etc etc.

The fact that you are spruiking an average crowd in Sydney with a 2 in front of it and that Brisbane has pulled 50000 to an NRL game is evidence enough.

 

[beema limapep]

Chicken and the egg.

Not going to build huge stadiums with no chance to host big games such as the AFL grand final.

So rich get richer and the not so rich don't get the opportunity to compete.

There are ways around that but when you are in a dark room negotiating with your mates why would you invite competition. You might not get your 'bonus'.

Youve got no proof. Thats based on your perception.

What are the chances - that the AFL simply wants the biggest event in the biggest stadium for its most watched showpiece game of the year - or that circumstances have been suspended in an exact manner to support the distant theory of a bigfooty poster from West Australia who thinks his club and state (the richest in the afl and often touted as the richest state respectively) is the victim of economic conspiracy?

Even if your right on the chicken and egg comment - its WA's issue. Do something about it. Your problem. Not Victoria's. You have choices. Building a 60,000 seat stadium was WAs choice. Not Victorias. Not the AFLs.

 

[beema limapep]

Geez the whinging about the GF location just won’t quit. It’ tradition, it’s a Melbourne based sport, it is the spiritual home of the game and the season has and always will culminate each year with the GF parade and Grand Final at the MCG. If you don’t like it follow another sport. I find this argument akin to saying the Tour De France shouldn’t finish in Paris every year!

Even better my doggies friend, maybe:-

The FA cup final should be held at Bradford City.
The Melbourne cup should be held at Tabcorp Park.
The Australian Grand Prix should be held at a GoCart track in Bunbury.

What does it matter?

 

[74561347]

I didnt say you dont get the odd large crowd, and one could provide examples and the odd record as you have, but its inherently not the same as the depth of melbournes sporting culture, consistency of large turnouts, size of crowds etc etc.

The fact that you are spruiking an average crowd in Sydney with a 2 in front of it and that Brisbane has pulled 50000 to an NRL game is evidence enough.

consistency of large turnouts? only 3 vic teams have averaged 40k plus since 1997 (when pretty much all the suburban grounds were gone), and north, geelong and bulldogs have had averages that begin with a 2 in that time.

only collingwood have averaged home crowds above 50k in that time. 1 team that only fills half the mcg on a regular basis. doesnt seem like consistency of large crowds to me.

 

[beema limapep]

consistency of large turnouts? only 3 vic teams have averaged 40k plus since 1997 (when pretty much all the suburban grounds were gone), and north, geelong and bulldogs have had averages that begin with a 2 in that time.

only collingwood have averaged home crowds above 50k in that time. 1 team that only fills half the mcg on a regular basis. doesnt seem like consistency of large crowds to me.

Yes ok friend.

 

[telsor]

Total and utter tripe. What a typical arrogant Victorian veiw full of self interest.

Its a Victorian boys club that has zero intention of risking being outbid.

Until an open bidding process is run you dont know what the market rate is for 10, 20 or 30 years of guaranteed finals plus the GF.

As for the cost. How often would the tender be done? Once every 20 years? Wow.

I would bet a body part that the benefit of an open tender process would pay for the tender cost 1000 times over. When only one party is talkedd to what incentive is there for them to offer the best deal. They sit back (sipping their tea and nibbling crumpets) knowing they will get it anyway so why pay more.

That is how business works.

So when selling media rights, should the AFL talk to everyone, or just the big players?

After all, that single radio station in outback nowheresville 'network' might come up with a surprising offer!

Or do they talk to the big player(s), be professional enough to know the financial situation of all concerned well enough to know when they're getting a good deal and accept that without wasting time talking to those who wont realistically be able to match the already offered deal anyway?

It's a long deal, because what the AFL wanted is big money infrastructure investments, and those sums require years to pay off. To repeat...It's because that's what the AFL wants.

 

[Kwality]

No I'm not.

I'm suggesting that the whingers from West Australia and West Horsham are being grossly disingenuos to blithely ignore the cutting the crowd in half (or less) as being inconsequential.

In the context of a claim of being a major national comp, 25,000 seats are allocated to a suburban cricket club.

 

[JackFlash]

Review?
The fans are not happy with the way the game is played. This is not a low scoring game we follow!
The AFL will never get away with another season like 2020...what will be the plan?
Rules changes? It's a yearly ritual. Speed? Holding the ball? Disposal? Kicking distance extension?, Kicking backwards? Out of Bounds?
The TV deal, the game is structured for TV presentation, how will that look moving forward?
The evenness of the fixture...I can't see them playing twice with 18 teams?
Get the Grand Final back to the MCG ASAP with crowds and for a long time to come!
Tasmania? They must set a date.
16 or 18 teams including Tassie, fans won't be happy no matter what happens? 14 and you can play twice!
Teams will fold or merge, this is inevitable, what to do about it?
* Get Goal umpires back in white coats and hats!
* All players must wear socks up!
* Ground surfaces, are they too hard for our game?
* All teams must play an away game in Geelong on a rotating roster
* Bring back curtain raisers.

That will keep them busy until the break for tea and biscuits!
I would just like a good tough game of footy again and 100 points will win it !

 

[Kwality]

Review?
The fans are not happy with the way the game is played. This is not a low scoring game we follow!
The AFL will never get away with another season like 2020...what will be the plan?
Rules changes? It's a yearly ritual. Speed? Holding the ball? Disposal? Kicking distance extension?, Kicking backwards? Out of Bounds?
The TV deal, the game is structured for TV presentation, how will that look moving forward?
The evenness of the fixture...I can't see them playing twice with 18 teams?
Get the Grand Final back to the MCG ASAP with crowds and for a long time to come!
Tasmania? They must set a date.
16 or 18 teams including Tassie, fans won't be happy no matter what happens? 14 and you can play twice!
Teams will fold or merge, this is inevitable, what to do about it?
* Get Goal umpires back in white coats and hats!
* All players must wear socks up!
* Ground surfaces, are they too hard for our game?
* All teams must play an away game in Geelong on a rotating roster
* Bring back curtain raisers.

That will keep them busy until the break for tea and biscuits!
I would just like a good tough game of footy again and 100 points will win it !

Do you reckon any of your points would get a gig at the review called for by Pridham.

 

[Laphroaig]

Total and utter tripe. What a typical arrogant Victorian veiw full of self interest.

Its a Victorian boys club that has zero intention of risking being outbid.

Until an open bidding process is run you dont know what the market rate is for 10, 20 or 30 years of guaranteed finals plus the GF.

As for the cost. How often would the tender be done? Once every 20 years? Wow.

I would bet a body part that the benefit of an open tender process would pay for the tender cost 1000 times over. When only one party is talkedd to what incentive is there for them to offer the best deal. They sit back (sipping their tea and nibbling crumpets) knowing they will get it anyway so why pay more.

That is how business works.

Lets try another tack then.

Lets imagine the howls of outrage in the whiney states if the GF was put out to tender, with the provision that (for example) a 40,000 seat venue was required to start their bid at minus $25,000,000. Which is a very lowball estimate of the income the event has to give up by putting it in a pissy little ground.

The real figure is probably twice or three times that amount.

In the context of a claim of being a major national comp, 25,000 seats are allocated to a suburban cricket club.

You mean the owner of the 100,000 seat stadium which STILL admits 30,000 spectators more than any other ground in the country AFTER their members fill the members seats?

Over the 30 odd years left on the current contract that's 30 x 30,000 fewer spectators can go to the Grand Final. 900,000 less.

But that doesn't matter, right?