7News: Major Review into the AFL, independent of the AFL & the 18 Clubs, will start early 2021.

[Kane McGoodwin]

As a slightly different view, is 20 teams really that bad an idea?

No more new Goldcoast/GWS project teams but surely Tassie and a third WA team would initially get similar crowds to the smaller vic clubs (25,000 plus) as well as decent tv interest.

10 teams interstate
9 teams in Melb
1 team in Geelong

We don't even have enough quality players for an 18 team competition.

Prefer reduced teams & proper home/away season with reserves competition & bigger squads.

 

[pablo668]

It'd be nice if a national agency was set up to manage the game itself, rules, custodianship, records et al.
And the AFL can manage itself and nothing else in the game.

 

[madmug]

It'd be nice if a national agency was set up to manage the game itself, rules, custodianship, records et al.
And the AFL can manage itself and nothing else in the game.

Bit like the FA & the EPL in the UK.

Unfortunately the AFL has usurped all power & money unto itself.

The rest of the game is like a football 3rd world getting some economic trickle down.

Covid19 has seen that worsen. The AFL is only concerned with itself. State leagues, suburban, regional & country football has been left to fend pretty much for themselves. Even junior development, except maybe the AFL's elite stream, has been left to its own devices.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Bit like the FA & the EPL in the UK.

Unfortunately the AFL has usurped all power & money unto itself.

The rest of the game is like a football 3rd world getting some economic trickle down.

Covid19 has seen that worsen. The AFL is only concerned with itself. State leagues, suburban, regional & country football has been left to fend pretty much for themselves. Even junior development, except maybe the AFL's elite stream, has been left to its own devices.

Why do people keep saying this, all those leagues fended for themselves before the AFL took control.

As for the state league, it was the VFA, they handed control to the AFL, they were broke.

 

[Freshwater]

It'd be nice if a national agency was set up to manage the game itself, rules, custodianship, records et al.
And the AFL can manage itself and nothing else in the game.

We had that for years with the AFC ( Australian Football Council) then we got rid of the clubs directly controlling the VFL/AFL with the commission. So we have had this to a degree. But if the AFL makes up a rule, it doesn’t take long for country leagues to follow. If there are coaching trends on field it doesn’t take country leagues long to follow. It can’t really happen.
min basketball if the world body makes rules that have to be followed in the Olympic Games,the NBA doesn’t care and just has their own rules, as they should.

 

[pablo668]

We had that for years with the AFC ( Australian Football Council) then we got rid of the clubs directly controlling the VFL/AFL with the commission. So we have had this to a degree. But if the AFL makes up a rule, it doesn’t take long for country leagues to follow. If there are coaching trends on field it doesn’t take country leagues long to follow. It can’t really happen.
min basketball if the world body makes rules that have to be followed in the Olympic Games,the NBA doesn’t care and just has their own rules, as they should.

Yeah, the problem was the VFL, it was able to go its own way and there was little the AFC or NFL or whatever could do about it. They were the biggest player so they had to be on board.
Now, if a national agency was set up, and all leagues had to be a part of it, all of its govt support, ground usage etc, basically dragged kicking and screaming to the table and made to cooperate, it could work.
That way we don't have the AFL running the entire game, and possibly it's a way to stop any of the AFL's sh*tf*ckery that it pulls in the lower leagues.
I'm not talking about the AFL's commercial interests or anything like that, just things that affect the game as a whole.

 

[Rich01]

That way we don't have the AFL running the entire game, and possibly it's a way to stop any of the AFL's sh*tf*ckery that it pulls in the lower leagues.
I'm not talking about the AFL's commercial interests or anything like that, just things that affect the game as a whole.

How do you propose they seperate the two?

 

[pablo668]

How do you propose they seperate the two?

Well, the two shouldn't considered one and the same. Basically you take away the power of the AFL to unilaterally make decisions on the laws of the game.
That becomes the job of the national agency. Remember the AFL would have to be a part of the national agency and follow its rule in this scenario.

It really is just spitballing though.

 

[The_Wookie]

Well, the two shouldn't considered one and the same. Basically you take away the power of the AFL to unilaterally make decisions on the laws of the game.
That becomes the job of the national agency. Remember the AFL would have to be a part of the national agency and follow its rule in this scenario.

It really is just spitballing though.

Why would the AFL ever agree to that though? The AFLs current position exists because ANFA saw the futility of trying to control it.

 

[pablo668]

Why would the AFL ever agree to that though? The AFLs current position exists because ANFA saw the futility of trying to control it.

Like I said, dragged kicking and screaming, think of them joining ASADA. I'm thinking of the national agency being a gov't backed thing.
As I said in my last post, it's all spitballing, it would never happen.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

It'd be nice if a national agency was set up to manage the game itself, rules, custodianship, records et al.
And the AFL can manage itself and nothing else in the game.

That ceased being an option 30 odd years ago. Like the NFL the AFL basically is the sport these days and it's never going to change. Why would the AFL cede any power to an external agency when it doesn't have to?

 

[Obeanie1]

If it is a Victorian boys' club then why did your club want to join it so desperately and pay $4 million for the privilege? You are a bit like a Meghan Markle - joining the Royal Family and then wanting it to change rather than the other way around. Why didn't your club wait and lobby for an independent national-league to be formed?

PS I'm a West Australian.

Eagles joined under the impression the VFL was dead (And it was financially) and a new national competition was being built.

It will obviously take time for the embedded Victorian power brokers to slowly be eroded and evolve into a true national competition.

Still not there yet. Too many struggling teams in Victoria holding that back.

 

[The_Wookie]

Eagles joined under the impression the VFL was dead (And it was financially) and a new national competition was being built.

It was made abundantly clear to them prior to the vote to join that the VFL were not reducing its teams nor building a true national competition

• 1985, October 30. The Age reports that ‘the VFL was at great pains to say it is proposing an expansion of the existing competition to include interstate teams and not a national league’. (Behind the Play pg 198)
• 1986 – August 5. The VFL decides not to adopt rationalistion and announces it will take 12 teams into its proposed national competition in 1987.
• 1986 – August 7. SA and WA say they will reconsider joining the national competition after the VFL voted to retain all 12 clubs in the league. WA and SA had been working under the belief that there were be some rationalisation and the league would be composed of 12 clubs and not 14.
• 1986 – August 11. SANFL Directors unanimously vote against joining the VFL in 1987, citing a need for rationalisation of the Victorian clubs, and saying that the financial equation didnt work after being required to pay a 4 million license fee by the VFL.
• 1986, August 26. All six WAFL directors and six of the eight clubs voted to apply to join the VFL in 1987. Sth Fremantle and Swan Districts vote against. (Behind the play, pg 202). To get the clubs votes a $200,000 in finanical support was offered to each club (Behind the play pg 218) The 4 million license fee is demanded up front by the VFL instead of over 10 years as had been originally proposed (Behind the play pg 215)

 

[Papa G]

West Coast kind of ****ed up any hope of having anything representing a fair national league and the undeserving legacy VFL clubs were kept. West Coast are as responsible as anyone for the corrupt, bias s**t show the league is now.

 

[pablo668]

That ceased being an option 30 odd years ago. Like the NFL the AFL basically is the sport these days and it's never going to change. Why would the AFL cede any power to an external agency when it doesn't have to?

As I've said several times, under the scenario put forward, the AFL would be forced to, anyone with a modicum of sense/general knowedge/whatever knows this. They'd be forced, dragged kicking and screaming if you will.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

West Coast kind of f’ed up any hope of having anything representing a fair national league and the undeserving legacy VFL clubs were kept. West Coast are as responsible as anyone for the corrupt, bias sh*t show the league is now.

Agree somewhat but they went to SA to find out where they are at with it all thinking together they Woukd have a stronger case for a National comp as opposed to an expanded VFL and the WAFL left Adelaide in non belief that the SANFL thought they had things under control and will stay stand lone huge league.
If the SANFL and WAFL had got together they may of got better terms and better compromise.

 

[telsor]

West Coast kind of f’ed up any hope of having anything representing a fair national league and the undeserving legacy VFL clubs were kept. West Coast are as responsible as anyone for the corrupt, bias sh*t show the league is now.

and Port put the final nail in the coffin of that idea when they went behind the SANFL's back and begged to join the VFL, forcing the SANFL's hand.

 

[megadeth86]

Agree somewhat but they went to SA to find out where they are at with it all thinking together they Woukd have a stronger case for a National comp as opposed to an expanded VFL and the WAFL left Adelaide in non belief that the SANFL thought they had things under control and will stay stand lone huge league.
If the SANFL and WAFL had got together they may of got better terms and better compromise.

I see from the 1983 WA Footy Register that Rod Brown, West Perth president, applied to join the VFL in late-1982/early-1983. I wish they had been accepted and the VFL/AFL had gone along a model of only accepting traditional clubs - West Perth, East Perth, Norwood and Port Adelaide should have been admitted to the competition. The AFL would be in better shape now and we would have preserved the two most important derbies in Perth and Adelaide.

 

[FootyJunkie]

Utopia would have been...

16 team league with 4x4 divisions. Play your division twice, play another division twice (over a 3 year rotation), play the rest once = 22 games.
4 division winners plus 4 wild cards make up the Final 8.

1 side in QLD, NSW, ACT, TAS
2 sides in WA, SA
8 legacy VFL sides

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I see from the 1983 WA Footy Register that Rod Brown, West Perth president, applied to join the VFL in late-1982/early-1983. I wish they had been accepted and the VFL/AFL had gone along a model of only accepting traditional clubs - West Perth, East Perth, Norwood and Port Adelaide should have been admitted to the competition. The AFL would be in better shape now and we would have preserved the two most important derbies in Perth and Adelaide.

As much as I think and wish that my beloved Cardies were in the AFL, I am not sure the league itself would be any different or in better shape. The reality in WA and SA is that unless all clubs are in the best model financially is the set up we have now.

 

[Obeanie1]

West Coast kind of f’ed up any hope of having anything representing a fair national league and the undeserving legacy VFL clubs were kept. West Coast are as responsible as anyone for the corrupt, bias sh*t show the league is now.

How exactly?

 

[Papa G]

How exactly?

Once West Coast joined the VFL, it was all over. Any hope of anything close to a truly national and representative league was dashed. It was the straw that broke the camel's back. The VFL had effectively won. All other options were now off the table.
Contrary to what that awful Richmond Banshee stated above, Port then read the tea leaves and decided to make an application to join the Vafl because it was abundantly clear that's where the future lied.
West Coast's entry to the VFL effectively snuffed out what could have been and left us with what we have now with the VFL Legacy history and legacy teams the over riding narrative.
Let me say I don't particularly have anything against West Coast, they have become the biggest, richest and most supported club in the land despite the Victorian Bias, corruption, favour and nepotism. Kudos to them. But there is no doubt them entering the comp in 87 was the death knell of any hopes for what could have been. Great clubs relegated over night. Bit clubs elevated.

 

[Obeanie1]

Once West Coast joined the VFL, it was all over. Any hope of anything close to a truly national and representative league was dashed. It was the straw that broke the camel's back. The VFL had effectively won. All other options were now off the table.
Contrary to what that awful Richmond Banshee stated above, Port then read the tea leaves and decided to make an application to join the Vafl because it was abundantly clear that's where the future lied.
West Coast's entry to the VFL effectively snuffed out what could have been and left us with what we have now with the VFL Legacy history and legacy teams the over riding narrative.
Let me say I don't particularly have anything against West Coast, they have become the biggest, richest and most supported club in the land despite the Victorian Bias, corruption, favour and nepotism. Kudos to them. But there is no doubt them entering the comp in 87 was the death knell of any hopes for what could have been. Great clubs relegated over night. Bit clubs elevated.

Well that isn't much of an explanation at all.

So I will try and fill some gaps.

Are you saying that because the Eagles joined the national comp first that meant that other expansion clubs didn't have a choice on what competition to join?

So what would you have done differently?

The fact that the VAFL invited in expansion teams one at a time was smart as they retained the whip. Hell of alot easier pushing around one new club than negotiating with two or three or four at the same time.

If the Eagles had of said, "nah, we won't join until you get a group together and we all negotiate together" the VAFL would have just said no problem, we will go to SA or QLD first and add one team at a time starting there. WA can wait until last then.

 

[Papa G]

Well that isn't much of an explanation at all.

So I will try and fill some gaps.

Are you saying that because the Eagles joined the national comp first that meant that other expansion clubs didn't have a choice on what competition to join?

So what would you have done differently?

The fact that the VAFL invited in expansion teams one at a time was smart as they retained the whip. Hell of alot easier pushing around one new club than negotiating with two or three or four at the same time.

If the Eagles had of said, "nah, we won't join until you get a group together and we all negotiate together" the VAFL would have just said no problem, we will go to SA or QLD first and add one team at a time starting there. WA can wait until last then.

Umm they did enter a QLD team. The Brisbane Bears, who were a complete disaster. The important states were WA and SA. Both were holding out for better deals and VFL club rationalization. Once West Coast jumped, it was all over.

 

[The Warlord]

Anyone up for discussing the actual review or just the same old WA/SA sookfest that's been going since I first logged on here in 2006?