Past #8: Daniel Wells - joins Collingwood as a FA - North get pick #32 as compensation

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Gasometer

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Posts
46,353
Likes
51,991
Location
Gasometer Wing
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Kangaroos
Not that I am one to go back and re watch the tripe, but usually when he is getting a tag he biatches to the Umpire....he was biatching to the Umpire yday...any observations?
 

benbanjo

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Posts
6,837
Likes
5,557
AFL Club
North Melbourne
/facepalm

Go watch the first half against Essendon last September. Was yesterday's game more important?
Dont get so offended i like the bloke, but he has failed to perform many times throughout his career, saw him give up on a chase yesterday, was pathetic.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2001
Posts
20,881
Likes
50,207
Location
Windy Hill Safe Injecting Room
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
St Johnstone
Moderator #1,880
Will he be dropped? Of course not.
Of this I agree.

I know you're not a fan of this line of thinking but this is a senior coach believes he's rewired basic human psychology and to remove all traces of extrinsic motivation and pain/pleasure responses from his players.
 

ZACK WILD

Team Captain
Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Posts
325
Likes
126
Location
middle earth
AFL Club
North Melbourne
he looked slow and disinterested against the crows... I always defend him on here and in conversations - but he lost me on the weekend... hope he turns it around.... his classiness is something we dearly need
Same old wells could be an a grader but will only play like one when he feels like it
 

Spitter9

Club Legend
Joined
Jul 29, 2012
Posts
1,836
Likes
1,656
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Liverpool
It's not beyond the pale to suggest Wells should get dropped.

"With great power comes great responsibility." It isn't as if senior players in any team in history haven't been dropped as a message, example or wake up call. If it never happens I don't think it's unreasonable to think that the player has a certain (unconscious) complacency. A term that isn't inconsistent with Wellsy imo.

If everyone plays their part Wells isn't indispensable; if he is, god help us when he retires. I thought that, when it was hot in the kitchen (or should have been) he was largely absent. His performance is worse when you consider what he's capable of.

Will he be dropped? Of course not. But if he was it'd raise a few eyebrows and give genuine hope to those on the fringe that there is realistic hope of being rewarded for effort.
This part is spot on. If you look at a team like Hawthorn they are constantly giving new players a chance at the top level and for consecutive games too (anderson, hartung, ceglar, litherland to name a few). This is what a i feel Scott doesn't do enough of. It's a disgrace that Wood and Dumont have not played the amount of senior games that they should have. Their VFL form has more than warranted it, what more are they meant to do?
 

Higgins2Waite

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Joined
Aug 13, 2012
Posts
13,513
Likes
22,916
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
NORTH! 2016,2017,2018.
Those flying off the deep end need to settle. Being dropped or given the sub vest would open his eyes a little. He needs a kick up the arse because his best is elite...unfortunately for us he doesn't deliver it enough. With him firing we are a chance at the flag. if making an example out of him fires him up I'm all for it.
 

The Other Dean

Whirling Dervish
Joined
May 29, 2006
Posts
17,712
Likes
21,674
Location
Eyre, Qatar
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Rebecca Romney Book Club
It's not beyond the pale to suggest Wells should get dropped.

"With great power comes great responsibility." It isn't as if senior players in any team in history haven't been dropped as a message, example or wake up call. If it never happens I don't think it's unreasonable to think that the player has a certain (unconscious) complacency. A term that isn't inconsistent with Wellsy imo.

If everyone plays their part Wells isn't indispensable; if he is, god help us when he retires. I thought that, when it was hot in the kitchen (or should have been) he was largely absent. His performance is worse when you consider what he's capable of.

Will he be dropped? Of course not. But if he was it'd raise a few eyebrows and give genuine hope to those on the fringe that there is realistic hope of being rewarded for effort.
You're right, he won't be dropped. And fwiw, I don't think he should be either.

And while I'm not pointing the finger your way on this one, Kimbob, I think the notion put forward by some folk that Wellsy is icing rather than part of the cake is underselling him by quite a margin. Also, in Wellsy's defence, it's probably fair to say that what some people are remembering as "inconsistent form", is in fact "injury-affected form".

But that was then and this is now, and I kinda like where you're going with this post. Shirley the goodwill/credits/"great power" that these players enjoy is relative to their experience and ability. Shirley the bar is set higher, and/or these magical "credits in the bank" erode faster when the player in question fails to meet minimum requirements. (Someone should totally Steffi the crap out of this whole credits thing.)

In a post-match analysis on the radio, I think I caught a commentator saying that Daniel registered his first kick late in the third Quarter. I don't care whether he had a mythical hybrid of Cameron Ling, Brady Rawlings, and Pinchy McPincherson shadowing him (and what an attractive beast that would be!), for someone of Wellsy's ability, that's absolutely shitful. Particularly given his creativity by foot, and the value it adds to the team.

Obviously, dropping him off the back of a poor Round 1 performance is a little extreme, and I say the following working on the assumption that he is the type that responds to a good old-fashioned bollocking (he may not be), but I certainly hope Brad makes it crystal clear to Daniel that a repeat of that kind of performance against Brisbane simply won't be tolerated.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Kimbo

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Posts
18,056
Likes
24,868
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Sturt, Liverpool
Shirley the goodwill/credits/"great power" that these players enjoy is relative to their experience and ability. Shirley the bar is set higher, and/or these magical "credits in the bank" erode faster when the player in question fails to meet minimum requirements. (Someone should totally Steffi the crap out of this whole credits thing.)
An equation or a Steffi... something, yes. (And stop calling me Shirley.)

The Other Dean said:
In a post-match analysis on the radio, I think I caught a commentator saying that Daniel registered his first kick late in the third Quarter. I don't care whether he had a mythical hybrid of Cameron Ling, Brady Rawlings, and Pinchy McPincherson shadowing him (and what an attractive beast that would be!), for someone of Wellsy's ability, that's absolutely shitful. Particularly given his creativity by foot, and the value it adds to the team.
Hence "With great power..." quote (thanks Uncle Ben). Actually, it's shitful for anyone.

The Other Dean said:
Obviously, dropping him off the back of a poor Round 1 performance is a little extreme, and I say the following working on the assumption that he is the type that responds to a good old-fashioned bollocking (he may not be), but I certainly hope Brad makes it crystal clear to Daniel that a repeat of that kind of performance against Brisbane simply won't be tolerated.
"Extreme" can relate to the lynch-mob levels of hysteria that accompany the demands to drop players, or to an over-reaction relative to the situation. I'd like to think there are times when an objective, hard-nosed decision to drop a top line player isn't considered extreme, but appropriate. I get it's only Rd 1, but it's not like the match committee/coach couldn't back up such a decision with reasoning, such as the one you've provided above (no kicks till late in the third), and it would send a strong message to the whole group, as well as to Wells himself and to the senior players.
 

Grogg

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Posts
5,600
Likes
12,546
Location
Womb with a view
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I'd drop him.

Brad was a catalyst in bringing out the A Grade Wells, when he changed tact from Laidley's ethos of Outside Daniel, said just go and win your own ball and the result was a Syd Barker medal.

He needs to be aware of just what's happening here and the influence it has on the group. He's a Senior member of the club, his example is what others look to and judge us by as a club.

Maybe to go to the next level, the coach again needs to change tact. Not just for Wells benefit, but for the group as a whole.

He needs a jolt. No big speeches, no histrionics, just a simple you're out. That performance is nowhere near good enough from a young player, let alone a senior club champion that othets look up to.
 

Kimbo

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Posts
18,056
Likes
24,868
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Sturt, Liverpool
Of this I agree.

I know you're not a fan of this line of thinking but this is a senior coach believes he's rewired basic human psychology and to remove all traces of extrinsic motivation and pain/pleasure responses from his players.
I think a coach needs to recognise and 'exploit' (use) both forms of motivation. Fundamentally I like that Brad adopts an 'Appreciative Inquiry' philosophy that focuses on strengths. The thinking is that when you focus on them, and develop them, you get "strong strengths". It also links to the 'heliotropic effect' - that people turn to what it brightest and best (aspirations) and a facilitated approach is about evoking this from the players.

And/but, one way I view the 'extrinsic' issue here is akin to a 'boundary setting' technique (works with pets, kids and adults!) I learned once, that goes like this:
  1. Request. ('Charge neutral'/matter-of-fact request for what you want, and an explanation of why.)
  2. Remind and Restate the Request. (People are only human. They may have forgotten, or not fully understood the reason or priority etc.)
  3. Warn. (Again, 'charge neutral' letting them know that if "x" happens again (the request that they hopefully agreed to in step 1 is ignored), then there will be a certain commensurate consequence.)
  4. Sanction. You simply carry out the sanction communicated in the step above. No surprises, no angst.
The problem is when you do the unassertive thing (Steps 1, 2, and 3 but don't do 4... you're a toothless tiger). Or, when you go straight to Step 4 which misses the education that goes on in Steps 1-3 (and that's what those steps are about), then that confuses people and/or makes them resentful and trust and connection are diminished.

So what? I reckon Brad needs to have a clear Step 3 and 4 on occasion. The 'boundary' being certain minimum levels of performance.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 28, 2004
Posts
37,696
Likes
54,519
Location
Tender Touch
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
MVFC, Storm, Everton, Socceroos
Moderator #1,892
North Melbourne captain Andrew Swallow, coach Brad Scott issue Easter bakes to under-performing Kangaroos
Date April 6, 2015 - 9:10PM
Daniel Cherny
Sports reporter


The Roos trudge off Adelaide Oval on Sunday. Photo: Getty Images

North Melbourne's leaders have ensured that it wasn't just hot cross buns being baked this Easter weekend.

Captain Andrew Swallow and coach Brad Scott both dealt rebukes to the Kangaroos players they felt most let the side down in Sunday's 77-point loss to Adelaide at Adelaide Oval. Speaking after his recovery session at Elwood beach on Monday morning, Swallow said he issued some home truths to the biggest under-performers in the Roos lineup

"We just go in and have a good look and put it on a few blokes who aren't doing what we want," Swallow said.


The skipper flagged that those not living up to the accepted standards would likely pay this Thursday when the team to face the Brisbane Lions on Sunday is named.

"We spoke about before the game we've got some good depth so there are a lot of guys who could've played and didn't play so you sort of have to go back and look at the selection table then," he said.

Scott has been known to use kid gloves on his players, but Swallow confirmed that the coach had identified those he felt were weak links.

"Brad's always pretty calm and collected and I think he really likes to have a look at the vision and go back before he really gets fired up and gets into it but he definitely laid it on a few blokes. He thought their performances weren't acceptable. I'm sure there's going to be some choice words tomorrow."

There was little the Roos could hang their hat on from the showing against the Crows. Scott's side lost the contested ball count by 27, the clearances by 13, the tackles by 7 and the inside 50s by 16.

Swallow said that all areas of the ground were heavily under the microscope. "You could've looked across the whole ground, I think we had some poor performers in all of it."

"I play in the midfield and we got smashed. I haven't seen us lose the contested footy like that in a long time. We've got to rebound and we definitely made it hard for our defenders."

Just as they did in each of Scott's five previous years at the helm, North enter round two with 0 premiership points. The captain still could not put his finger on why the club's recent round one record is so poor.

"I can't put it down to anything in particular. It's just one of those things. You obviously want to get off to a good start, it's not a nice feeling sitting here today but that's football. It's a pretty harsh competition and it's a pretty even competition so you've got to bring your best every week."

In one good bit of news for the club, no injuries were sustained in the defeat.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...nderperforming-kangaroos-20150406-1mf2eu.html

We shall see.........

 

shintemaster

Premium Gold
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
13,916
Likes
21,131
Location
Ponderama
AFL Club
North Melbourne
We shall see.........

This is it for me. They've talked the talk before and given themselves outs due to injuries, inexperience or being behind the 8 ball to make the eight. Arguably we should have copped the hit previously and may be getting rewarded now.

The axe has never really fallen on core players IMHO.
 

Grogg

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Posts
5,600
Likes
12,546
Location
Womb with a view
AFL Club
North Melbourne
"The skipper flagged that those not living up to the accepted standards would likely pay this Thursday when the team to face the Brisbane Lions on Sunday is named."

Think this line is getting a little tired and to be honest if you're having to make these statements after 1 Round off the back of a Preliminary Final smashing, then something is seriously off.
 

TennisPlayerAndy

Klay Thompson's Jumpshot
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Posts
38,732
Likes
51,410
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Liverpool, Raiders, GSW
"The skipper flagged that those not living up to the accepted standards would likely pay this Thursday when the team to face the Brisbane Lions on Sunday is named."

Think this line is getting a little tired and to be honest if you're having to make these statements after 1 Round off the back of a Preliminary Final smashing, then something is seriously off.
Yep.

Those words now have lost all meaning.

They are never followed through.
 

shintemaster

Premium Gold
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
13,916
Likes
21,131
Location
Ponderama
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Likewise, along with the others I've given a spray, but he's just the sacrificial lamb for me in what I see as a much bigger issue.
That's it (if he is the choice). I have no doubt that each and every one will come out firing and prove their value. It shouldn't be happening though to begin with and there need to be clear consequences. Not every player will be "up" every week and at their best. But the minimum standard for each (and I would argue for each player it is different) needs to be set and maintained.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2001
Posts
20,881
Likes
50,207
Location
Windy Hill Safe Injecting Room
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
St Johnstone
Moderator #1,900
I think a coach needs to recognise and 'exploit' (use) both forms of motivation. Fundamentally I like that Brad adopts an 'Appreciative Inquiry' philosophy that focuses on strengths. The thinking is that when you focus on them, and develop them, you get "strong strengths". It also links to the 'heliotropic effect' - that people turn to what it brightest and best (aspirations) and a facilitated approach is about evoking this from the players.

And/but, one way I view the 'extrinsic' issue here is akin to a 'boundary setting' technique (works with pets, kids and adults!) I learned once, that goes like this:
  1. Request. ('Charge neutral'/matter-of-fact request for what you want, and an explanation of why.)
  2. Remind and Restate the Request. (People are only human. They may have forgotten, or not fully understood the reason or priority etc.)
  3. Warn. (Again, 'charge neutral' letting them know that if "x" happens again (the request that they hopefully agreed to in step 1 is ignored), then there will be a certain commensurate consequence.)
  4. Sanction. You simply carry out the sanction communicated in the step above. No surprises, no angst.
The problem is when you do the unassertive thing (Steps 1, 2, and 3 but don't do 4... you're a toothless tiger). Or, when you go straight to Step 4 which misses the education that goes on in Steps 1-3 (and that's what those steps are about), then that confuses people and/or makes them resentful and trust and connection are diminished.

So what? I reckon Brad needs to have a clear Step 3 and 4 on occasion. The 'boundary' being certain minimum levels of performance.
This is exactly why I outsource the clever bits to you. It's not a lack of a plan B afterall. It's lack of a step 3. (and 4)
 
Top Bottom