Player Watch #8 James Rowbottom

[Kennedy Parker]

James Rowbottom

The Sydney Swans recruited James Rowbottom

8

James Rowbottom

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.0

4star

K

8.1

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

2.2

2star

T

4.3

5star

CL

2.0

4star

D

14.6

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

5.6

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

2.5

4star

D

14.4

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.6

5star

CL

1.2

4star

with their second selection at the 2018 AFL Draft and the midfield bull impacted from the get-go. The Oakleigh Chargers product made his AFL debut against Richmond at Marvel Stadium in Round 5, 2019 and finished the season with 12 senior games beside his name. Rowbottom also led the NEAFL MVP voting when it was hidden from the public after Round 12. The young Swan is a ball magnet, explosive at the stoppages, an outstanding tackler and a clean user of the footy.

James Rowbottom

8

James Rowbottom

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.0

4star

K

8.1

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

2.2

2star

T

4.3

5star

CL

2.0

4star

D

14.6

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

5.6

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

2.5

4star

D

14.4

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.6

5star

CL

1.2

4star

DOB: 19 September 2000
DEBUT: 2019
DRAFT: #25, 2018 National Draft
RECRUITED FROM: Camberwell (Vic)/St Kevin's College (Vic)/Oakleigh U18

James Rowbottom | AFL

Follow James Rowbottom's progress through AFL

www.sydneyswans.com.au

 

[Tedeski]

So basically, he might be a good player, but you aren't sure, yet you'll sledge anyone who defends him by saying they're doing it for the likes, even though they might be right?

I don't care if other people have some fantasy-footy inspired arbitrary number of disposals they think players, mids even, have to reach to be important for the team (he's averaging 18.2, 4-5 less than Chad, Heeney). I don't care if people want to directly compare him to players with different roles and strengths/weaknesses, like Chad, as if it means anything. Though Chad himself has said if he could have one mid to start a new team with, it'd be Rowy as he makes everyone else better.

Comment on him having an off day where he doesn't appear to throw himself into the contest as much sure, but if all people do is say "oh Rowy only had X disposals, bad Rowy, low impact Rowy" then maybe they are the ones being lazy and looking for easy likes / "social capital".

If people don't care about or rate Rowy throwing his body around, tackling, pressuring, getting clearances, getting smothers in, doing the tough stuff that others seem to avoid at times, then that's on them. I hope they're happy sorting by disposals and watching highlight reels to know who is important to the team.

If Rowy stops throwing himself around, it’s because of what is going on around him. When he sees others not going hard or fulfilling their roles. It usually starts in the second quarters of our bad games.
The ‘team’ efforts dissipate after the first Q & then the selfish individuals take hold of the game.
Multiple unanswered goals are scored against us & then we kick a goal with a personal celebration of satisfaction with a finger twirl or high five with another ‘individual’ in close proximity with the same mindset.
By multiple unanswered goals, I mean multiple.
Honest teams put us to the sword early. Gold Coast kick 13 unanswered. The Dees had 11 shots in the second. It’s 18 v 18 on the ground still. It’s mindset & work ethic. Rowy has in spades. But he is human & knows a slack arse when he sees one.
He becomes broken for the game. There are a few like that & perhaps the other notable ones are Ramps & Lloyd who have given their all & know what hard working team mates are.
These 3 blokes probably think fk this. Not a good sign but the last ones to blame.

 

[MF]

Sick of squinting to see the good player with James.

In far far too many games you find yourself thinking "would you say a tackle is worth 2 possessions... and does that equal out to a good game or ..."

Just don't know if we can have one of our key midfielders be someone who will probably put in a 15 disposal 8 tackle game as a baseline.

We can speculate that this is happening because of how he's coached etc as Caesar is liable to do. But the thing is that's speculation. Maybe it's the case maybe it's not - but it's squinting to see why he's good and being let down rather than him actually just unambiguously being good. We here a lot about how much his communication and leadership etc helps everyone else. I'm not saying that's my true either ... But I'm sick of squinting I just want him to be unambiguously good.

Rowbottom is what, out 4th or 5th best midfielder? He's behind Heeney and Warner for sure. Arguably Mills or Errol if we say they're fit and playing as a midfielder etc. is he really good enough to be a locked on leading minute taker at our stoppages? I don't know.

He's had 3 sub 15 disposal games this year. He hasnt once had more than 24. Is he actually good?

I was okay with these sort of games when he was 22 / 23 and assumed he was still building to something but the lack of improvement this year is a real worry.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

So basically, he might be a good player, but you aren't sure, yet you'll sledge anyone who defends him by saying they're doing it for the likes, even though they might be right?

I don't care if other people have some fantasy-footy inspired arbitrary number of disposals they think players, mids even, have to reach to be important for the team (he's averaging 18.2, 4-5 less than Chad, Heeney). I don't care if people want to directly compare him to players with different roles and strengths/weaknesses, like Chad, as if it means anything. Though Chad himself has said if he could have one mid to start a new team with, it'd be Rowy as he makes everyone else better.

Comment on him having an off day where he doesn't appear to throw himself into the contest as much sure, but if all people do is say "oh Rowy only had X disposals, bad Rowy, low impact Rowy" then maybe they are the ones being lazy and looking for easy likes / "social capital".

If people don't care about or rate Rowy throwing his body around, tackling, pressuring, getting clearances, getting smothers in, doing the tough stuff that others seem to avoid at times, then that's on them. I hope they're happy sorting by disposals and watching highlight reels to know who is important to the team.

Point of order: you can't get clearances without disposals.

He had a down game on Sunday (as did pretty much our entire team). 12 disposals for an inside mid (who wasn't sub or subbed) is not a good game, no matter which way you look at it.

I think Rowy is a fine AFL footballer - the question is whether or not he's out-of-form due to injury, or if its just symptomatic of what's going on around him.

 

[Bloods86]

Point of order: you can't get clearances without disposals.

He had a down game on Sunday (as did pretty much our entire team). 12 disposals for an inside mid (who wasn't sub or subbed) is not a good game, no matter which way you look at it.

I think Rowy is a fine AFL footballer - the question is whether or not he's out-of-form due to injury, or if its just symptomatic of what's going on around him.

Rowy had as many clearances as Heeney on the weekend and only 2 separate them at the top of our clearance ladder for the year. Chad is just under a clearance per game behind them in third place.

Again, I don't think Rowy had a great game or anything (I've said this already), but sorting by the disposals column didn't tell me that and I don't consider it a factor in evaluating performance, if said player is doing other things to help the team.

I think it might be a mixture of things. In the Chad quote I mentioned he goes on to say Rowy is often carrying something, which is no surprise given the contested nature of his role and how he manically throws himself around.

I guess my main annoyance is that players like Rowy battle away regularly and fairly consistently (averaging 18 touches if that matters), yet are often disregarded (not by you) in comparison to flashier, more bruise free types who turn it on for a quarter or half and get lauded as a player we rely on.

Even on the weekend Rowy was still tackling, pressuring, smothering, albeit didn't look quite as intense at times, and his place in the bests was questioned, while very few picked up on "Warner" (probably Chad) being in the bests, for disposal quantity I guess and a goal, despite regularly missing teammates without the same pressure Rowy is often under.

Luckily the club and his teammates understand Rowy's importance, even if some fans don't.

 

[grimlock]

I think he'd be more effective in his role if he handballed it more than kicking it. He's not a great kick at the best of times, and particularly under pressure will just bomb it long. Get in and under and shovel it out. He should look at someone like Tom Atkins

30

Tom Atkins

Age

30

Ht

180cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

6.5

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

4.3

5star

CL

1.3

3star

D

6.5

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.5

2star

M

0.8

1star

T

1.5

2star

CL

0.5

3star

D

11.6

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

4.8

5star

CL

1.2

4star

who is also a player who racks up the tackles, but unlike Rowbottom handballs more than he kicks.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I think he'd be more effective in his role if he handballed it more than kicking it. He's not a great kick at the best of times, and particularly under pressure will just bomb it long. Get in and under and shovel it out. He should look at someone like Tom Atkins who is also a player who racks up the tackles, but unlike Rowbottom handballs more than he kicks.

I agree 100% but to make that change, not just for Rowy but for everyone, we need to increase separation so that we can get the ball to the outside more effectively. We have four excellent outside players in Heeney, Warner, Gulden and McInerney (the first 2 can play inside as well) who can all deliver well into 50. I don't count Lloyd in that group because his delivery is less effective.
Campbell and Bice reasonable too. Blakey another species.

 

[Deccas]

So basically, he might be a good player, but you aren't sure, yet you'll sledge anyone who defends him by saying they're doing it for the likes, even though they might be right?

I don't care if other people have some fantasy-footy inspired arbitrary number of disposals they think players, mids even, have to reach to be important for the team (he's averaging 18.2, 4-5 less than Chad, Heeney). I don't care if people want to directly compare him to players with different roles and strengths/weaknesses, like Chad, as if it means anything. Though Chad himself has said if he could have one mid to start a new team with, it'd be Rowy as he makes everyone else better.

Comment on him having an off day where he doesn't appear to throw himself into the contest as much sure, but if all people do is say "oh Rowy only had X disposals, bad Rowy, low impact Rowy" then maybe they are the ones being lazy and looking for easy likes / "social capital".

If people don't care about or rate Rowy throwing his body around, tackling, pressuring, getting clearances, getting smothers in, doing the tough stuff that others seem to avoid at times, then that's on them. I hope they're happy sorting by disposals and watching highlight reels to know who is important to the team.

I didn't sledge you or anyone, I described a dynamic that exists on sports forums in general. People love to put in for unflashy meat and potatoes types. This is true of me as well it's just part of the culture of these sorts of places. If this got under your skin im sorry but given it wasn't targeted at you, or anyone, and was a comment on the general nature of things have a think about why?

I like Rowbottom, I've said it a lot for several years. But I'd like him to stop being a player who gets under 15 disposals in 25 percent of his games. I'd like him to occasionally break the 25 or even 30 barrier and win a handful of best on ground awards.

He's graduated from being a young guy whose worked his way into the midfield with great effort and grunt work into one of our leaders and one of our players who has the most opportunity to win possessions and move the ball our way.


It's not obvious that having him attend 80 odd percent of the ball ups for a season is better than if Sheldrick or Adams or Cleary did. That what I'm complaining about . I want to have no doubt in my mind that he's part of our best midfield. But there's doubt. I think he's probably better to have in there than Gus? Probably?

The idea that this criticism is coming because of sorting by possessions after one poor game. He's good for a half dozen sub 15 games a season and has been for years. That's not true of any other one of our locked on mids, and it's not true of many (any?) midfielders that are established 1st choice players around the competition. This sort of point will get raised after a poor game, but it won't happen if it's the first time a poor game like this has happened.

Everyone knows there is far more to footy than possession counts, but there is a reason that it's a short hand for influence. If Rowbottom doesn't get his hands on it someone else does. if he's not getting it very much then our other players have to be getting it more.

 

[McGowan3]

I agree 100% but to make that change, not just for Rowy but for everyone, we need to increase separation so that we can get the ball to the outside more effectively. We have four excellent outside players in Heeney, Warner, Gulden and McInerney (the first 2 can play inside as well) who can all deliver well into 50. I don't count Lloyd in that group because his delivery is less effective.
Campbell and Bice reasonable too. Blakey another species.

His kicking is under rated I reckon. He has an awkward looking style but he is quite effective and penetrating. Also a good shot for goal. Just wish he got more of it.

 

[Kbroome]

I think he'd be more effective in his role if he handballed it more than kicking it. He's not a great kick at the best of times, and particularly under pressure will just bomb it long. Get in and under and shovel it out. He should look at someone like Tom Atkins who is also a player who racks up the tackles, but unlike Rowbottom handballs more than he kicks.

I think he would be able to handball more if Juzzy and Errol were on the park. They both provide that outside run that has basically been missing for most of the season and without them Rowbottom would rather not pass it to Lloyd or Florent and just get it into the dysfunctional forward line anyway

Handball efficiency is still at 83%, KE down from 57.2% to 55.6% but its just the extra possessions that are making his efficiency numbers worse.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I didn't sledge you or anyone, I described a dynamic that exists on sports forums in general. People love to put in for unflashy meat and potatoes types. This is true of me as well it's just part of the culture of these sorts of places. If this got under your skin im sorry but given it wasn't targeted at you, or anyone, and was a comment on the general nature of things have a think about why?

I like Rowbottom, I've said it a lot for several years. But I'd like him to stop being a player who gets under 15 disposals in 25 percent of his games. I'd like him to occasionally break the 25 or even 30 barrier and win a handful of best on ground awards.

He's graduated from being a young guy whose worked his way into the midfield with great effort and grunt work into one of our leaders and one of our players who has the most opportunity to win possessions and move the ball our way.


It's not obvious that having him attend 80 odd percent of the ball ups for a season is better than if Sheldrick or Adams or Cleary did. That what I'm complaining about . I want to have no doubt in my mind that he's part of our best midfield. But there's doubt. I think he's probably better to have in there than Gus? Probably?

The idea that this criticism is coming because of sorting by possessions after one poor game. He's good for a half dozen sub 15 games a season and has been for years. That's not true of any other one of our locked on mids, and it's not true of many (any?) midfielders that are established 1st choice players around the competition. This sort of point will get raised after a poor game, but it won't happen if it's the first time a poor game like this has happened.

Everyone knows there is far more to footy than possession counts, but there is a reason that it's a short hand for influence. If Rowbottom doesn't get his hands on it someone else does. if he's not getting it very much then our other players have to be getting it more.

I posted earlier that I noted last game that Rowy got tackled with the ball quite often and very quickly at stoppages. No free against and no stat for that but denies the opposition possession. Not advancing the "is Rowy good or not?" debate but very noticeable.

 

[Bloods86]

I didn't sledge you or anyone, I described a dynamic that exists on sports forums in general. People love to put in for unflashy meat and potatoes types. This is true of me as well it's just part of the culture of these sorts of places. If this got under your skin im sorry but given it wasn't targeted at you, or anyone, and was a comment on the general nature of things have a think about why?

I like Rowbottom, I've said it a lot for several years. But I'd like him to stop being a player who gets under 15 disposals in 25 percent of his games. I'd like him to occasionally break the 25 or even 30 barrier and win a handful of best on ground awards.

He's graduated from being a young guy whose worked his way into the midfield with great effort and grunt work into one of our leaders and one of our players who has the most opportunity to win possessions and move the ball our way.


It's not obvious that having him attend 80 odd percent of the ball ups for a season is better than if Sheldrick or Adams or Cleary did. That what I'm complaining about . I want to have no doubt in my mind that he's part of our best midfield. But there's doubt. I think he's probably better to have in there than Gus? Probably?

The idea that this criticism is coming because of sorting by possessions after one poor game. He's good for a half dozen sub 15 games a season and has been for years. That's not true of any other one of our locked on mids, and it's not true of many (any?) midfielders that are established 1st choice players around the competition. This sort of point will get raised after a poor game, but it won't happen if it's the first time a poor game like this has happened.

Everyone knows there is far more to footy than possession counts, but there is a reason that it's a short hand for influence. If Rowbottom doesn't get his hands on it someone else does. if he's not getting it very much then our other players have to be getting it more.

You said, in response to a post defending Rowy, that people defend him for the social capital and to project themselves as knowledgeable, therefore not because they think he's good. Maybe dishonesty isn't a sledge to you I guess.

Rowy has been among our best many times, I'm not sure what your point is.

Yes yes, you recognise there's more to footy than disposals, but apparently it's still shorthand for influence.

I'm going to just keep watching a very important player do things that help the team, with a different focus than others, and have no doubt he's part of our best midfield. Others can keep an eye on the disposals column to see who is playing well.

 

[Deccas]

I posted earlier that I noted last game that Rowy got tackled with the ball quite often and very quickly at stoppages. No free against and no stat for that but denies the opposition possession. Not advancing the "is Rowy good or not?" debate but very noticeable.

As I understand it you get a possession but not a disposal for that?

 

[Arrr]

I think in the defensive half he tends to just throw the ball on the foot to hoof it forwards at stoppage. I don't know if this is for any reason in particular (coaches orders, lack of faith in defenders, panic under pressure).
In the forward half he tends to be a bit more likely to take an extra second to have a look for a good option or kick the occasional goal himself.
I think that these hacks out of packs in the defensive half are what people really notice about his ball use especially when they go to an unmarked opposition player. I think that the kicks where he takes that extra second are actually pretty good but he needs to be able to do that at both ends of the ground.

 

[Bloods86]

As I understand it you get a possession but not a disposal for that?

Possession = disposal. They don't count them separately.

It just means you've forced a stoppage and the oppo didn't get to it first. Maybe you might get a ground ball get.

 

[Bloods86]

I think in the defensive half he tends to just throw the ball on the foot to hoof it forwards at stoppage. I don't know if this is for any reason in particular (coaches orders, lack of faith in defenders, panic under pressure).
In the forward half he tends to be a bit more likely to take an extra second to have a look for a good option or kick the occasional goal himself.
I think that these hacks out of packs in the defensive half are what people really notice about his ball use especially when they go to an unmarked opposition player. I think that the kicks where he takes that extra second are actually pretty good but he needs to be able to do that at both ends of the ground.

The quick kick forward without looking is practically a trademark of our, and many other, inside mids in congestion. Rowy is following in the footsteps of JPK, Parker etc in that regard.

Some of his field kicking/inside 50s, when in space, are excellent as you say. He's just not usually in space.

 

[killablood]

He is a good honest worker. If his pressure is off then something is wrong with him physically, I don't think anyone could question his effort...but we need more from him, he is more or less the same player from debut to now. He has really plateaued since 22 season.

Can any of the more tactical minded posters on here identify a handful of players from other teams that play the similar role to him? I'm thinking Dunkley ? I'd like to measure him against like types around the comp rather than against a Heeney or Warner.
My guess is, he is probably around the mark but he is a first picked player so I would like to see him exceed expectation of same role players, or simply develop and evolve into a more rounded midfielder.

 

[giantsully]

Possession = disposal. They don't count them separately.

It just means you've forced a stoppage and the oppo didn't get to it first. Maybe you might get a ground ball get.

Actually my understanding there is a difference between possession and disposal. For example, if you took a mark before the siren goes but don't take the kick, that's a possession but not a disposal. Not sure about the situation that Deccas refers to.

 

[grimlock]

Possession = disposal. They don't count them separately.

It just means you've forced a stoppage and the oppo didn't get to it first. Maybe you might get a ground ball get.

They are counted separately.

Disposal: Legally getting rid of the ball, via a handball or kick.
Possession: When a player grabs the ball with a reasonable amount of time to dispose of it. Includes groundball-gets, marks, handball receives, effective contested knock-ons and frees for.

Glossary – AFL – Champion Data

www.championdata.com

Most of the time a possession also results in a disposal, but as pointed out with the example you can get a possession but not a disposal. You can also in the rarer case have a disposal but not a possession e.g. ground kicks

 

[ashep]

I think discussion of his limitations is fair, and the variance between his best and worst is wider than you'd like, but there is enormous value in being able to count on a bloke to be available for every game and generally make life tough for the opposition.

With at least 1 of Mills or Adams doing the tough stuff alongside, he'd have more of a chance to shine IMO.

 

[Bloods86]

They are counted separately.

Disposal: Legally getting rid of the ball, via a handball or kick.
Possession: When a player grabs the ball with a reasonable amount of time to dispose of it. Includes groundball-gets, marks, handball receives, effective contested knock-ons and frees for.

Glossary – AFL – Champion Data

www.championdata.com

Most of the time a possession also results in a disposal, but as pointed out with the example you can get a possession but not a disposal. You can also in the rarer case have a disposal but not a possession e.g. ground kicks

Cheers, good to know the official definitions.

I think in the example given, Rowy doesn't get either disposals or possessions, given he doesn't have reasonable time to dispose of the ball, because his CP + UP = disposals, despite him getting wrapped up at contests several times.

 

[Bloods86]

I think discussion of his limitations is fair, and the variance between his best and worst is wider than you'd like, but there is enormous value in being able to count on a bloke to be available for every game and generally make life tough for the opposition.

With at least 1 of Mills or Adams doing the tough stuff alongside, he'd have more of a chance to shine IMO.

He definitely has limitations, though I think the variance is often just put down to disposal numbers by some. Doesn't mean he isn't good at his role or important to the team (which you're not saying).

 

[Deccas]

Possession = disposal. They don't count them separately.

It just means you've forced a stoppage and the oppo didn't get to it first. Maybe you might get a ground ball get.

Straight up that's not the case. Don't say things with confidence that are wrong.

Champion data who produce these statistics record both and have a different definition for each. disposals is getting rid of the ball, possession is taking possession of it.

Why are you making things up? Genuinely why did you say that if you didn't know? Are you so frustrated that I think Rowbottoms contribution is fuzzier than I'd like that you're saying the first true sounding thing that comes to mind to defend him? Why is that?

 

[Bloods86]

Straight up that's not the case. Don't say things with confidence that are wrong.

Champion data who produce these statistics record both and have a different definition for each. disposals is getting rid of the ball, possession is taking possession of it.

Why are you making things up?

Yes, I was wrong. Someone has provided the official definition which I thanked them for (not the same as yours, which you've also said confidently).

In the example being discussed, Rowy getting the ball is neither a disposal nor a possession.

 

[Bloods86]

Why are you making things up? Genuinely why did you say that if you didn't know? Are you so frustrated that I think Rowbottoms contribution is fuzzier than I'd like that you're saying the first true sounding thing that comes to mind to defend him? Why is that?

Calm down mate. First you say people are defending Rowy for reasons other than what they actually believe, now you're painting a genuine mistake, which I admit, as some panicked attempt to defend Rowy (on a topic I didn't even think to bring up in the main impacts Rowy has). For the examples being discussed, it's not a possession either.

 

[McRobie]

Rowbottom is all heart, but atm the reality is he’s not getting a game in half AFL teams right now.