Player Watch # 8: Martin Gleeson - Recovering well but no ETA on full training - 28/11

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bombreys

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Still 2-3 weeks away according to the AFL injury list.
Would be close to sitting him for the year.

Would suggest they'll err on the side of caution and it'll be another 3 weeks out. Will take him at least 3 in the VFL. Is it worth bringing him back in at Round 21?

He's just signed a two year deal, he's going to be sticking around long-term.

We're out of the finals race - I think I'd rather see Long given a chance to see if he's worthy of a spot next year.
 

eth-dog

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Would be close to sitting him for the year.

Would suggest they'll err on the side of caution and it'll be another 3 weeks out. Will take him at least 3 in the VFL. Is it worth bringing him back in at Round 21?

He's just signed a two year deal, he's going to be sticking around long-term.

We're out of the finals race - I think I'd rather see Long given a chance to see if he's worthy of a spot next year.
Seems like he'll be out of the boot in 3 and a half weeks, then building towards maybe a couple of weeks after that :(
 

Lore

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Back in time for finals... lol. So that's season done.

The news wasn’t as encouraging for Marty Gleeson, who has suffered a setback in his rehabilitation.

“Last time we spoke (he) had an x-ray which showed good healing of his ankle injury.
The CT scan, which took place the next day, showed about an 80 per-cent heal,” Crow said.

“This led the surgeon to advise that we take longer before getting him out of the moon boot and Marty’s been gradually progressing out of the boot over a six-week period, which he’s about two and a half weeks into now.

“So that sets Marty back a little bit, but all going well his best case would be to return in finals at this stage.”
http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2018-06-19/skins-injury-update-rd-14
 
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Thing is i just don't think he has the body type to match his skillset. He was beaten by a bigger opponent and that's the clue.

We keep recruiting undersized guys and question why we get pushed around. I guess if we just train much harder and are smarter with the science than our opponents we can overcome it.
How often have you watched Rohan play? He has the strength to out body players much bigger than him.


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BrunoV

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The people that know have selected Gleeson in the best available team for the majority of his career.


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I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not and the problem I have is that all context of what I was posting will start to be lost if it hasn't already been.

For a start, I've supported Gleeson and argued for his inclusion over the last few years as much as anyone has. I'm not writing him off nor am I saying that he wont necessarily be a best 22 player.

What I've been saying is that he's played half a year of football which would justify automatic inclusion in a best 22, if you want to think of it that way. That half year has now been followed by a year ruined by injury in which three extremely talented players, Francis, Ridley and Redman, who in one way or another are all competing with Gleeson for a spot in the best 22 are all going to get the chance to prove themselves in a large part due to Gleeson's absence.

I then cast my mind back to Gleeson's VFL form after being dropped in 2017, and his general form at the start of 2017 and there was no indication that the quality of his second half was on the horizon. Contrast that with Redman and Francis who have been dominating VFL, we've even got Redman's match against Brisbane in which he was a class above all but a few on the ground as an indication of the level he is now at.

Why is it so impossible that players who are in better form than Gleeson was at the same time last year would end up playing to the same level that Gleeson reached in the second half of 2017? Yes, Gleeson was good but he was hardly that good that we would not expect other players to reach that level. If Francis and Redman reach that level, and I'm arguing that it's a much stronger chance than people seem to think, is there one logical reason that Gleeson would continue to own a spot in the best 22? There are emotional reasons but I can't think of a logical one.
 

Yoda_

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I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not and the problem I have is that all context of what I was posting will start to be lost if it hasn't already been.

For a start, I've supported Gleeson and argued for his inclusion over the last few years as much as anyone has. I'm not writing him off nor am I saying that he wont necessarily be a best 22 player.

What I've been saying is that he's played half a year of football which would justify automatic inclusion in a best 22, if you want to think of it that way. That half year has now been followed by a year ruined by injury in which three extremely talented players, Francis, Ridley and Redman, who in one way or another are all competing with Gleeson for a spot in the best 22 are all going to get the chance to prove themselves in a large part due to Gleeson's absence.

I then cast my mind back to Gleeson's VFL form after being dropped in 2017, and his general form at the start of 2017 and there was no indication that the quality of his second half was on the horizon. Contrast that with Redman and Francis who have been dominating VFL, we've even got Redman's match against Brisbane in which he was a class above all but a few on the ground as an indication of the level he is now at.

Why is it so impossible that players who are in better form than Gleeson was at the same time last year would end up playing to the same level that Gleeson reached in the second half of 2017? Yes, Gleeson was good but he was hardly that good that we would not expect other players to reach that level. If Francis and Redman reach that level, and I'm arguing that it's a much stronger chance than people seem to think, is there one logical reason that Gleeson would continue to own a spot in the best 22? There are emotional reasons but I can't think of a logical one.
Gleeson's form was that good at AFL level. The guys you mention have shown as good a form at VFL level. If/when they show the same apparent form of Gleeson's in the seniors then perhaps we can have this conversation again.

At the moment it is (a fit) Gleeson > Francis/Ridley/Redman
 

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Pweter

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I have an idea.

Let's watch the 2nd half of the season and see how Redman, Ridley and Francis go should they get a sustained run in the seniors. Then, when the season is over, we compare how they went compared to Gleeson in 2017 and what the pecking order is.

I can see both sides of the argument but it's all pie in the sky stuff. On field results will be the only thing we have to go on.

For the record, I want Bruno to be right. If we have all of Redman, Francis and Ridley performing to the level Gleeson was last year then we're spoiled for choice. I'd make Ridley work a little harder for a little longer in the reserves in a Redman type was though, he's younger and needs to build his body and his tank while making the VFL his own playground.
 

bombreys

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I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not and the problem I have is that all context of what I was posting will start to be lost if it hasn't already been.

For a start, I've supported Gleeson and argued for his inclusion over the last few years as much as anyone has. I'm not writing him off nor am I saying that he wont necessarily be a best 22 player.

What I've been saying is that he's played half a year of football which would justify automatic inclusion in a best 22, if you want to think of it that way. That half year has now been followed by a year ruined by injury in which three extremely talented players, Francis, Ridley and Redman, who in one way or another are all competing with Gleeson for a spot in the best 22 are all going to get the chance to prove themselves in a large part due to Gleeson's absence.

I then cast my mind back to Gleeson's VFL form after being dropped in 2017, and his general form at the start of 2017 and there was no indication that the quality of his second half was on the horizon. Contrast that with Redman and Francis who have been dominating VFL, we've even got Redman's match against Brisbane in which he was a class above all but a few on the ground as an indication of the level he is now at.

Why is it so impossible that players who are in better form than Gleeson was at the same time last year would end up playing to the same level that Gleeson reached in the second half of 2017? Yes, Gleeson was good but he was hardly that good that we would not expect other players to reach that level. If Francis and Redman reach that level, and I'm arguing that it's a much stronger chance than people seem to think, is there one logical reason that Gleeson would continue to own a spot in the best 22? There are emotional reasons but I can't think of a logical one.
I’m one of the few who still isn’t sold on Gleeson. But he’s far and away ahead of any of those three.

Francis probably won’t get to AFL level this year, Ridley likely won’t get back and Redman has played one game.
 

TheGrizz

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You people fail the reading comprehension test.
No they just disagree with you. Big difference.

For what its worth i agree and disagree with you.

I love Marty as a player but i dont consider him an unassailable lock in the best 22. His back half of 2017 was impressive but 12 months out of AFL competition casts a shadow over anyones immediate place. Besides, as effectively a 192cm rebounding and intercepting tall he is competing with Dea, Hurley, Ridley, Francis, Ambrose etc for a spot. He has the added benefit of being able to play smaller but as i said above he is no lock to keep them out of the team round 1 next year with 12 months off and the added complexity of our clubs optimal team structure.

Where I disagree with you is your assessment of Ridley and Francis. Francis hasnt played a game at AFL level since April last year, and i dont care how well he has played at VFL level, the jump is too big to expect that output at senior level for prolonged periods. Ridley has already shown that he has not been able to continue the form he started with for very long. See the Richmond and GWS games for evidence.
To expect it is anything more than a remote chance at best that they play anywhere as consistently well as Marty did in the second half of last year is unreasonable.

Whether Marty can hold his spot when he returns next year is not dependant on the form of Ridley and Francis over the back end of this year. Firstly because i expect their form to be less impressive than you do. Secondly because the last 10 games of this year will not be the only factor; preseason form, marty progression from injury and how well the team meshes and strategic setup and team selectiom will all have a bearing.

In short i agree that none of the three (Marty, Francis and Ridley) have a spot sewn up once Marty gets back. However i disagree in that i dont think the probable form of Ridley or Francis will do as much to prove their case as you seem to.
 

BrunoV

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No they just disagree with you. Big difference.

For what its worth i agree and disagree with you.

I love Marty as a player but i dont consider him an unassailable lock in the best 22. His back half of 2017 was impressive but 12 months out of AFL competition casts a shadow over anyones immediate place. Besides, as effectively a 192cm rebounding and intercepting tall he is competing with Dea, Hurley, Ridley, Francis, Ambrose etc for a spot. He has the added benefit of being able to play smaller but as i said above he is no lock to keep them out of the team round 1 next year with 12 months off and the added complexity of our clubs optimal team structure.

Where I disagree with you is your assessment of Ridley and Francis. Francis hasnt played a game at AFL level since April last year, and i dont care how well he has played at VFL level, the jump is too big to expect that output at senior level for prolonged periods. Ridley has already shown that he has not been able to continue the form he started with for very long. See the Richmond and GWS games for evidence.
To expect it is anything more than a remote chance at best that they play anywhere as consistently well as Marty did in the second half of last year is unreasonable.

Whether Marty can hold his spot when he returns next year is not dependant on the form of Ridley and Francis over the back end of this year. Firstly because i expect their form to be less impressive than you do. Secondly because the last 10 games of this year will not be the only factor; preseason form, marty progression from injury and how well the team meshes and strategic setup and team selectiom will all have a bearing.

In short i agree that none of the three (Marty, Francis and Ridley) have a spot sewn up once Marty gets back. However i disagree in that i dont think the probable form of Ridley or Francis will do as much to prove their case as you seem to.


No, they're saying that Gleeson is a better player now and that's because the year hasn't played out yet. No shit?!
 

Towno78

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Gleeson's form was that good at AFL level. The guys you mention have shown as good a form at VFL level. If/when they show the same apparent form of Gleeson's in the seniors then perhaps we can have this conversation again.

At the moment it is (a fit) Gleeson > Francis/Ridley/Redman
I didn't realise this was a retrospective only forum? I'm pretty sure BrunoV and anyone else can make predictions as they please. And his prediction is quite reasonable at that. Probably takes a bit longer than he believes, but still quite reasonable.
 

boncer34

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Coz he is and someone's inflated opinion of themselves refuses to let them concede they made a silly statement and rather then back down they're now arguing semantics and ridiculing people through misrepresenting what they're saying without actually offering anything substantial?
 

IHurley

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I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not and the problem I have is that all context of what I was posting will start to be lost if it hasn't already been.

For a start, I've supported Gleeson and argued for his inclusion over the last few years as much as anyone has. I'm not writing him off nor am I saying that he wont necessarily be a best 22 player.

What I've been saying is that he's played half a year of football which would justify automatic inclusion in a best 22, if you want to think of it that way. That half year has now been followed by a year ruined by injury in which three extremely talented players, Francis, Ridley and Redman, who in one way or another are all competing with Gleeson for a spot in the best 22 are all going to get the chance to prove themselves in a large part due to Gleeson's absence.

I then cast my mind back to Gleeson's VFL form after being dropped in 2017, and his general form at the start of 2017 and there was no indication that the quality of his second half was on the horizon. Contrast that with Redman and Francis who have been dominating VFL, we've even got Redman's match against Brisbane in which he was a class above all but a few on the ground as an indication of the level he is now at.

Why is it so impossible that players who are in better form than Gleeson was at the same time last year would end up playing to the same level that Gleeson reached in the second half of 2017? Yes, Gleeson was good but he was hardly that good that we would not expect other players to reach that level. If Francis and Redman reach that level, and I'm arguing that it's a much stronger chance than people seem to think, is there one logical reason that Gleeson would continue to own a spot in the best 22? There are emotional reasons but I can't think of a logical one.
What I want to know is, why are there only a limited number of spots in the team for tall players who can kick, run, mark and tackle? Assuming they all get up to AFL standard fitness, why can't they all be in the same team ahead of smaller players whose skill set is no better overall?
 
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