Player Watch # 8: Martin Gleeson

(Log in to remove this ad.)

eth-dog

Premium Gold
Jan 11, 2007
74,458
33,756
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Coburg Lions, All Boston sides
So fricken unlucky. Looked ready to be back in the seniors. At least it isn't an ankle injury.
 

Lore

Moderator
Dec 14, 2015
13,540
15,965
AFL Club
Essendon

eth-dog

Premium Gold
Jan 11, 2007
74,458
33,756
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Coburg Lions, All Boston sides
Back this week! Hope he goes to whichever of Rioli/Butler/Castagna/Baker is in the VFL and shuts them down.
 

ghostdog

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 18, 2008
5,311
1,951
gondawanaland
AFL Club
Essendon
Ridley + Redman + Francis + BZerk + Gleeson surely means one of them is trade bait. BZerk with no AFL experience is probably safe. Ridley and Gleeson currently not getting a game. All have upside.

Hooker or Hurley on the table suddenly looks possible as well, but if we still think we're finals possibility next year, perhaps we keep them for at least one more year (especially Hooker with question marks over Daniher).

The next three months will be vital for these players for an EFC future IMO. Two weeks ago I would have said it's Gleeson, then he makes the VFL TOTW.

I noticed that he was drafted having played on the wing and didn't realise he had great stamina. Might this be a key to keeping all of the young defenders?
 
Last edited:

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Kakkle

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 2, 2012
13,827
20,872
Melbourne/Los Angeles
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Los Angeles Dodgers
Ridley + Redman + Francis + BZerk + Gleeson surely means one of them is trade bait. BZerk with no AFL experience is probably safe. Ridley and Gleeson currently not getting a game. All have upside.

Hooker or Hurley on the table suddenly looks possible as well, but if we still think we're finals possibility next year, perhaps we keep them for at least one more year (especially Hooker with question marks over Daniher).

The next three months will be vital for these players for an EFC future IMO. Two weeks ago I would have said it's Gleeson, then he makes the VFL TOTW.

I noticed that he was drafted having played on the wing and didn't realise he had great stamina. Might this be a key to keeping all of the young defenders?

Hooker & Hurley will never be on the table. None of those players listed are even remotely the same calibre as those two in terms of ability or replaceability. Ridley will be shoehorned to play the 7th defender/wing/midfield along with Gleeson. Also how does making the VFL team of the week, change anything? It's a team selected by one guy who may or may not have watched the game.
 

ghostdog

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 18, 2008
5,311
1,951
gondawanaland
AFL Club
Essendon
Hooker & Hurley will never be on the table. None of those players listed are even remotely the same calibre as those two in terms of ability or replaceability. Ridley will be shoehorned to play the 7th defender/wing/midfield along with Gleeson. Also how does making the VFL team of the week, change anything? It's a team selected by one guy who may or may not have watched the game.
I don't think Hooker or Hurley will ever be on the table either; we have Woosha, not Clarko.

To say none of those young players will ever replace either of them also requires some kind of amazing insight that, frankly, you don't have. Hooker was once perceived not to have the tools to make it and was nearly traded to the Crows, if you recall. There's literally no telling how the youngers might develop, except to say all four of them look very promising. Gleeson making the VFL TOTW is an indication that, perhaps, Gleeson might be on his way to AFL form again very soon, that's all.

All I'm suggesting is that if we look at the emerging backline talent we have, and we want to trade for the future, then by November we may have a good idea of our needs balanced against surplus, and it may be that one of Hooker or Hurley could/should enter that discussion.

I don't think it would happen though because we're not ruthless enough.
 

blitzer

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 27, 2006
5,997
6,346
House
AFL Club
Essendon
I think its an interesting discussion as to whether any of our half back options might be on the trade table. Unfortunately none of them are at peak value except Redman who I definitely don't want to trade. Gleeson I suspect will continue to be a bit injury prone in the near future and this is the first time in Redman's and Francis' careers they've been fit for any real length of time. So I don't expect us to voluntarily be parting with these guys, particularly as Ridley/Redman definitely could develop into midfielders.

Anyway if it were up to me and everyone plays well til the end of the season and doesn't get injured:
Keep: Redman (he's my favourite of the entire group and just a walk up start when he's fit)
Keep but switch to wing: Ridley (I actually think he can succeed on the wing but otherwise he's still very good down back because of his agility and kicking)
Keep: Francis (Hooker's near the end of his career and its only one injury and he's clear next in line down back + he's improving as a key forward which gives him more opportunity to play seniors in the short term).
Keep: BZerk: Cheap backup taller defender. If he left for more opportunity I couldn't blame him though, he doesn't look likely to get games anytime soon.

Trade: Gleeson (his role was really the 3rd tall intercept guy but honestly Francis can do the same thing, or Ambrose can lock down a player so Hurley can do the same thing and both are way stronger in one on one contests). I was never as much a fan of Gleeson as other's on here who really fell in love with him during his good half season in 2017. I always found him just too physically weak in one on one's (he's about as strong as Fantasia without being lightning quick) and his kicking is just OK, pace is just OK. So despite great ability to read the play and intercept mark I find him to be replaceable as a package.
 

ghostdog

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 18, 2008
5,311
1,951
gondawanaland
AFL Club
Essendon
I think its an interesting discussion as to whether any of our half back options might be on the trade table. Unfortunately none of them are at peak value except Redman who I definitely don't want to trade. Gleeson I suspect will continue to be a bit injury prone in the near future and this is the first time in Redman's and Francis' careers they've been fit for any real length of time. So I don't expect us to voluntarily be parting with these guys, particularly as Ridley/Redman definitely could develop into midfielders.

Anyway if it were up to me and everyone plays well til the end of the season and doesn't get injured:
Keep: Redman (he's my favourite of the entire group and just a walk up start when he's fit)
Keep but switch to wing: Ridley (I actually think he can succeed on the wing but otherwise he's still very good down back because of his agility and kicking)
Keep: Francis (Hooker's near the end of his career and its only one injury and he's clear next in line down back + he's improving as a key forward which gives him more opportunity to play seniors in the short term).
Keep: BZerk: Cheap backup taller defender. If he left for more opportunity I couldn't blame him though, he doesn't look likely to get games anytime soon.

Trade: Gleeson (his role was really the 3rd tall intercept guy but honestly Francis can do the same thing, or Ambrose can lock down a player so Hurley can do the same thing and both are way stronger in one on one contests). I was never as much a fan of Gleeson as other's on here who really fell in love with him during his good half season in 2017. I always found him just too physically weak in one on one's (he's about as strong as Fantasia without being lightning quick) and his kicking is just OK, pace is just OK. So despite great ability to read the play and intercept mark I find him to be replaceable as a package.
Of the four, Gleeson is also the player I would be willing to trade, for much the same reason; Francis, Redman and Ridley have shown far more class and versatility. I would also like to trade into the first round, though, and would be unhappy though willing to trade Hurley to do it. We have enough talent to cover him and, although they may not be as strong now, Francis or BZerk will be in time. I would be really chuffed if he got a couple of seasons under Clarko and came back to us as a coach. Hurley + Gleeson + Zaharakis on the table would position us well over the trade/draft period.
 

BrunoV

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2009
15,214
18,692
AFL Club
Essendon
I think its an interesting discussion as to whether any of our half back options might be on the trade table. Unfortunately none of them are at peak value except Redman who I definitely don't want to trade. Gleeson I suspect will continue to be a bit injury prone in the near future and this is the first time in Redman's and Francis' careers they've been fit for any real length of time. So I don't expect us to voluntarily be parting with these guys, particularly as Ridley/Redman definitely could develop into midfielders.

Anyway if it were up to me and everyone plays well til the end of the season and doesn't get injured:
Keep: Redman (he's my favourite of the entire group and just a walk up start when he's fit)
Keep but switch to wing: Ridley (I actually think he can succeed on the wing but otherwise he's still very good down back because of his agility and kicking)
Keep: Francis (Hooker's near the end of his career and its only one injury and he's clear next in line down back + he's improving as a key forward which gives him more opportunity to play seniors in the short term).
Keep: BZerk: Cheap backup taller defender. If he left for more opportunity I couldn't blame him though, he doesn't look likely to get games anytime soon.

Trade: Gleeson (his role was really the 3rd tall intercept guy but honestly Francis can do the same thing, or Ambrose can lock down a player so Hurley can do the same thing and both are way stronger in one on one contests). I was never as much a fan of Gleeson as other's on here who really fell in love with him during his good half season in 2017. I always found him just too physically weak in one on one's (he's about as strong as Fantasia without being lightning quick) and his kicking is just OK, pace is just OK. So despite great ability to read the play and intercept mark I find him to be replaceable as a package.


I don't see how Redman is part of the discussion. He's genuinely a small whereas the others are all 3rd talls and, excluding Ridley who does not have the dynamic run, nowhere near the same ground level players.

We have no depth or other good options to play Redman's role and we don't have that style of player either (i.e. hard running, quick, skillful and capable of playing small and even stretched to 3rd tall). If we don't have Redman we're relying on "Benny McNeice's...really good footy" as a small defender and we've seen more often than not how good that actually is.

Gleeson, Francis, Ridley and Zerk-Thatcher are very much similar players as defenders, each with his respective strength's and weaknesses.

Gleeson has hardly set the world on fire in his game time this year, and he had a run of 5-7 games (including the VFL practice matches?). His run at the end of 2017 was great but I don't think it is relevant to whether or not we keep him. What we need to focus on is what is happening now and what I see now is very little difference between Gleeson and Zerk-Thatcher. Zerk-Thatcher has Gleeson covered in terms of raw pack marking ability and as a 1v1 defender. Gleeson is currently a smarter player who is better at playing angles, cutting the ball off, etc. Gleeson is a better kick without being a great kick but then BZT turns no more over than anyone else but he looks a bit awkward and his kicking probably lacks penetration.

Francis should be in the discussion because I still can't shake the feeling that his best is not really sustainable and not really going to be more than good quarters (as opposed to dominant games).

Difficulty is that I also see no value in trading Francis for anything outside of the first round as I'd just as soon continue the project with a 22 year old who may well turn those quarters into full games.

You could also question whether we are really gaining anything if all we can do is turn Gleeson into a pick which is >30. I wouldn't go out of my way to trade him unless it was for a player that really adds something to the list (e.g. someone like Sier for the middle) or a too good to refuse deal for picks.
 
Last edited:

blitzer

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 27, 2006
5,997
6,346
House
AFL Club
Essendon
I don't see how Redman is part of the discussion. He's genuinely a small whereas the others are all 3rd talls and, excluding Ridley who does not have the dynamic run, nowhere near the same ground level players.

We have no depth or other good options to play Redman's role and we don't have that style of player either (i.e. hard running, quick, skillful and capable of playing small and even stretched to 3rd tall). If we don't have Redman we're relying on "Benny McNeice's...really good footy" as a small defender and we've seen more often than not how good that actually is.

Gleeson, Francis, Ridley and Zerk-Thatcher are very much similar players as defenders, each with his respective strength's and weaknesses.

Gleeson has hardly set the world on fire in his game time this year, and he had a run of 5-7 games (including the VFL practice matches?). His run at the end of 2017 was great but I don't think it is relevant to whether or not we keep him. What we need to focus on is what is happening now and what I see now is very little difference between Gleeson and Zerk-Thatcher. Zerk-Thatcher has Gleeson covered in terms of raw pack marking ability and as a 1v1 defender. Gleeson is currently a smarter player who is better at playing angles, cutting the ball off, etc. Gleeson is a better kick without being a great kick but then BZT turns no more over than anyone else but he looks a bit awkward and his kicking probably lacks penetration.

Francis should be in the discussion because I still can't shake the feeling that his best is not really sustainable and not really going to be more than good quarters (as opposed to dominant games).

Difficulty is that I also see no value in trading Francis for anything outside of the first round as I'd just as soon continue the project with a 22 year old who may well turn those quarters into full games.

You could also question whether we are really gaining anything if all we can do is turn Gleeson into a pick which is >30. I wouldn't go out of my way to trade him unless it was for a player that really adds something to the list (e.g. someone like Sier for the middle) or a too good to refuse deal for picks.
I personally would regard Redman as a medium sized back who has the pace to play on smalls and I agree that with what you said that he's a stretch option for 3rd tall. To me he's different from Saad and McKenna who I would class as small backs. He would beat Gleeson and Ridley in a one on one marking contest more often than not despite them being taller.

I agree with your points about putting up Gleeson/Francis for trades. It would have to be for something that we clearly need. I doubt we'd get enough currency for it to be worth it for us. Of course there is the other perspective of freeing up salary cap for a free agent potentially which does blur the equation.
 

BrunoV

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2009
15,214
18,692
AFL Club
Essendon
I personally would regard Redman as a medium sized back who has the pace to play on smalls and I agree that with what you said that he's a stretch option for 3rd tall. To me he's different from Saad and McKenna who I would class as small backs. He would beat Gleeson and Ridley in a one on one marking contest more often than not despite them being taller.

I agree with your points about putting up Gleeson/Francis for trades. It would have to be for something that we clearly need. I doubt we'd get enough currency for it to be worth it for us. Of course there is the other perspective of freeing up salary cap for a free agent potentially which does blur the equation.

To take it a bit further, it's that Saad and McKenna are limited to playing small whereas at 188cm with the athleticism he has Redman can play small or even as a third tall which is why he's not a player I would consider for trade.

No one else on the lost has that flexibility.

I'd have little hesitation playing him on Elliott, Betts, Stephenson, Rohan, T. Lynch (Adelaide), for example.
 
Last edited:

ghostdog

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 18, 2008
5,311
1,951
gondawanaland
AFL Club
Essendon
I don't see how Redman is part of the discussion. He's genuinely a small whereas the others are all 3rd talls and, excluding Ridley who does not have the dynamic run, nowhere near the same ground level players.

We have no depth or other good options to play Redman's role and we don't have that style of player either (i.e. hard running, quick, skillful and capable of playing small and even stretched to 3rd tall). If we don't have Redman we're relying on "Benny McNeice's...really good footy" as a small defender and we've seen more often than not how good that actually is.

Gleeson, Francis, Ridley and Zerk-Thatcher are very much similar players as defenders, each with his respective strength's and weaknesses.

Gleeson has hardly set the world on fire in his game time this year, and he had a run of 5-7 games (including the VFL practice matches?). His run at the end of 2017 was great but I don't think it is relevant to whether or not we keep him. What we need to focus on is what is happening now and what I see now is very little difference between Gleeson and Zerk-Thatcher. Zerk-Thatcher has Gleeson covered in terms of raw pack marking ability and as a 1v1 defender. Gleeson is currently a smarter player who is better at playing angles, cutting the ball off, etc. Gleeson is a better kick without being a great kick but then BZT turns no more over than anyone else but he looks a bit awkward and his kicking probably lacks penetration.

Francis should be in the discussion because I still can't shake the feeling that his best is not really sustainable and not really going to be more than good quarters (as opposed to dominant games).

Difficulty is that I also see no value in trading Francis for anything outside of the first round as I'd just as soon continue the project with a 22 year old who may well turn those quarters into full games.

You could also question whether we are really gaining anything if all we can do is turn Gleeson into a pick which is >30. I wouldn't go out of my way to trade him unless it was for a player that really adds something to the list (e.g. someone like Sier for the middle) or a too good to refuse deal for picks.
I actually didn't realise Redman was that much shorter. He must be able to play taller than he is or something because that's the impression I had.
 

Yoda_

Brownlow Medallist
May 6, 2007
24,878
11,475
South East Suburbs
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspurs, Melbourne Vixen
People suggesting they’d trade Gleeson before any of Ridley, Redman, BZT or even Francis is laughable. Gleeson has shown he is capable of making an impact on AFL games where as the other guys have either (i) shown glimpses at AFL level or (ii) or done nothing to suggest they will be better than Marty.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Zach Package

Kyle Langfourd
Sep 21, 2012
23,860
32,365
Parish, Francis
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Piggy Smith, SFG, Heat, Raiders
Trading out our strongest small interceptor and most composed distributor when we’re right up the pointy end for forward half turnovers and scores from them and getting butchered by the high ball is so delightfully Essendon I can’t see us not doing it.
 

ghostdog

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 18, 2008
5,311
1,951
gondawanaland
AFL Club
Essendon
People suggesting they’d trade Gleeson before any of Ridley, Redman, BZT or even Francis is laughable. Gleeson has shown he is capable of making an impact on AFL games where as the other guys have either (i) shown glimpses at AFL level or (ii) or done nothing to suggest they will be better than Marty.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
BZT doesn't have the currency, so he's out. Both Redman and Francis have shown themselves to be more talented, and those two and Ridley are more versatile. Redman can play back, wing and possibly in the middle. Francis has shown he could play forward or back and will possibly replace Hooker. Ridley can play back or wing, and some think he could also play through the middle.

Gleeson has a been injured for a long time and those three have gone past him. He also only plays back. By the time the trade period comes around he will be a logical consideration. I don't see a way around that.
 

BrunoV

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2009
15,214
18,692
AFL Club
Essendon
People suggesting they’d trade Gleeson before any of Ridley, Redman, BZT or even Francis is laughable. Gleeson has shown he is capable of making an impact on AFL games where as the other guys have either (i) shown glimpses at AFL level or (ii) or done nothing to suggest they will be better than Marty.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That line is so June 2018.

BZT aside, no point trading a payer with no value, who hasn't done enough at AFL level to suggest he couldnt be better?
 

TheGrizz

Club Legend
Sep 29, 2016
2,371
2,904
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Bayern Munich
Would trade Francis before Gleeson provided Marty returns to some semblance of the form he showed in 2017 and the 2018 pre season. Marty can also play on smaller, quicker players which Franga cant


Francis is 4 preseasons in and still cant develop a tank to play either end at AFL level, which is a worry. Also if the club was bent on him making it as a defender, they wouldnt be playing forward with Brown available.

Francis would have the most currency, probably a pick between 25-35 at this stage and so for a pick around there i would be very tempted.
 
Top Bottom