Player Watch # 9: Dylan Shiel - Nominated for goal of the year - 22/7

fairbump_playon

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Jun 27, 2014
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It may also be symptomatic of having a forward line that is bush league.
No target puts pressure on the kicker to dispose of the ball, no one demanding it.

Too much is being made about our players inability to hit targets. The teams skill level is down yes and it will need to be turned around to get to where we want to but if you look around the league the skills are in the toilet.
A case study would also be the pies, their skills going inside 50 were atrocious up until they werent and became one of the best teams in the comp.

We have had a league where the entire plan has been create the loose and then work it down the field hitting open targets. Now we have a league where it's largely one on one and teams don't train skills. Recipe for some very poor displays right there.

It also seems pretty miserable to focus on nothing but some missed targets instead of being happy we have some speed away from clearance we haven't had in a decade.
Missed targets have such an incredible knock on effect. A bad kick is not just about us not scoring - it usually opens us up to massive defensive pain where we waste energy racing back the other way... when that energy could otherwise be used to pressure like hell and not let the opponent out of our forward 50.

Shiel's not on his own though and you're right that teams can mysteriously improve disposal efficiency overall. Maybe that's a confidence and flow thing.

I think the frustration with Shiel is the massive gap between his execution by foot and his incredible explosive run and carry. On balance I love watching him and am glad he's in red & black but if his kicking was better he would be truly incredible. And we paid in dollars and draft picks for someone incredible.
 

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Shane Heard

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Guys remember that he's Shane's new Stanton
That’s pretty unfair to keep bringing up the Stanton thing. Serves no purpose and just says to me you haven’t got anything constructive to say other than antagonistic retorts.

Its as plain as day the guy is a big disappointment as a top line, experienced midfielder recruit.

He’s played more than enough games with this team now to expect him to be in some kind of elite form.

But week after week he displays mediocre skills especially with his atrocious kicking and it’s incredibly frustrating to watch considering we all had such high hopes on how much value he would add.

I’ve already accepted he’s not going to be some kind of new bomber superstar.

He’s basically just going to be a hard working foot soldier who runs really fast with average kicking skills.

That’s just the way it is.

And people can defend him and try to cut down anyone who criticises him but the evidence is undeniable and right there in front of us.

He’s pretty average. That’s a fact.
 

MiguelM

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Feb 22, 2014
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That’s pretty unfair to keep bringing up the Stanton thing. Serves no purpose and just says to me you haven’t got anything constructive to say other than antagonistic retorts.

Its as plain as day the guy is a big disappointment as a top line, experienced midfielder recruit.

He’s played more than enough games with this team now to expect him to be in some kind of elite form.

But week after week he displays mediocre skills especially with his atrocious kicking and it’s incredibly frustrating to watch considering we all had such high hopes on how much value he would add.

I’ve already accepted he’s not going to be some kind of new bomber superstar.

He’s basically just going to be a hard working foot soldier who runs really fast with average kicking skills.

That’s just the way it is.

And people can defend him and try to cut down anyone who criticises him but the evidence is undeniable and right there in front of us.

He’s pretty average. That’s a fact.
Rubbish
 

Maxabillions

The don
Mar 17, 2018
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His hand balling has been pretty average as well as his kicking. It definitely has been frustrating but I’m optimistic he can improve.
 

Doss

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Aug 1, 2011
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That’s pretty unfair to keep bringing up the Stanton thing. Serves no purpose and just says to me you haven’t got anything constructive to say other than antagonistic retorts.

Its as plain as day the guy is a big disappointment as a top line, experienced midfielder recruit.

He’s played more than enough games with this team now to expect him to be in some kind of elite form.

But week after week he displays mediocre skills especially with his atrocious kicking and it’s incredibly frustrating to watch considering we all had such high hopes on how much value he would add.

I’ve already accepted he’s not going to be some kind of new bomber superstar.

He’s basically just going to be a hard working foot soldier who runs really fast with average kicking skills.

That’s just the way it is.

And people can defend him and try to cut down anyone who criticises him but the evidence is undeniable and right there in front of us.

He’s pretty average. That’s a fact.
No, that’s your opinion. You should learn the difference.
 

CBombers17

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Jul 7, 2014
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Most of our best field kickers are in the forward line. We may need to get Tippa playing off half back more or Fantasia as they are better than anyone we have in the middle at creating with the football. i'd add Stringer and Daniher to that list as well but we need forwards of course.

I've got Shiel mid-table in terms of disposal in our best 22. You would probably want your new gun recruit to sit higher than that, especially when this was already a problem area for us through the middle of the ground.
 

bomberlegend2007

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That’s pretty unfair to keep bringing up the Stanton thing. Serves no purpose and just says to me you haven’t got anything constructive to say other than antagonistic retorts.

Its as plain as day the guy is a big disappointment as a top line, experienced midfielder recruit.

He’s played more than enough games with this team now to expect him to be in some kind of elite form.

But week after week he displays mediocre skills especially with his atrocious kicking and it’s incredibly frustrating to watch considering we all had such high hopes on how much value he would add.

I’ve already accepted he’s not going to be some kind of new bomber superstar.

He’s basically just going to be a hard working foot soldier who runs really fast with average kicking skills.

That’s just the way it is.

And people can defend him and try to cut down anyone who criticises him but the evidence is undeniable and right there in front of us.

He’s pretty average. That’s a fact.
Stats say otherwise. Is he elite? No. But he is above average.

I can produce evidence that backs it up, but, you seem so sure in your opinion, there is no point wasting time debating it.
 

814305627

Rookie
Mar 11, 2017
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Most of our best field kickers are in the forward line. We may need to get Tippa playing off half back more or Fantasia as they are better than anyone we have in the middle at creating with the football. i'd add Stringer and Daniher to that list as well but we need forwards of course.


I've got Shiel mid-table in terms of disposal in our best 22. You would probably want your new gun recruit to sit higher than that, especially when this was already a problem area for us through the middle of the ground.
We really lack decent kickers with penetration esp through the midfield. Zack when on is one of the better ones, but we need to find a way to play Ridley and redman together and through the midfield. Those two along with Francis are the ones I’d like to see delivering the ball inside 50 most of the time
 

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Shane Heard

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Look, his disposal could be better but his ability to break away from the contest is elite. To say he is average is unfair.

He hit targets at GWS but they have smart forwards.
But they have smart forwards? That’s a ridiculous statement...seriously.

Anyway, the goal posts never move and all one has to do is put it through the space in between.

We paid an absolute fortune for this guy in wages and draft picks used...thinking he’d use his supposedly elite kicking skills to drill passes to our forwards and mids.

But it’s not happening. It’s all very average disposals by hand and foot.

Yes he breaks lines, runs fast and carries the ball..that’s great...good stuff.

But any decent mid does that.

Seeing McGrath weave his way through traffic and creating opportunities with his A grade handpasses and kicks at full speed is what it’s all about. Compare him to Shiel and i feel disappointed in what we gave up to get him.

Doesn’t mean I don’t think he adds value to our team.

I just expected more that’s all. But it’s not to be. At his age and level of experience, this is how he is.
 

TheDinosaur

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2015 - 75% disposal efficiency
2016 - 72%
2017 - 71%
2018 - 69%
2019 - 65%

but he can turn it around... right guys....? i hope he just needs some focused training but thats a worrying trend.
 

Shane Heard

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His hand balling has been pretty average as well as his kicking. It definitely has been frustrating but I’m optimistic he can improve.
I watched him very closely during that WC game the other week. Seats I had were 10 rows back from fence, dead in line with the centre circle..so as good as it gets when watching everything that goes on out on the field.

There was a moment in play on the Eagles half forward line near boundary where Shiel tried to panic hand pass out of trouble in congestion and delivered it straight to a West Coast player’s hands and off he went banging down to his forwardline for an eventual goal.
It was embarrassing.

Spent the whole game listening to various Eagles fans around me laughing at our prized recruit.

That doesn’t happen for no good reason.

All the footy world knows we have givin up a hell of a lot for this guy expecting him to be out best player week after week by now.

But that’s footy sometimes.
 

MiguelM

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Feb 22, 2014
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But they have smart forwards? That’s a ridiculous statement...seriously.

Anyway, the goal posts never move and all one has to do is put it through the space in between.

We paid an absolute fortune for this guy in wages and draft picks used...thinking he’d use his supposedly elite kicking skills to drill passes to our forwards and mids.

But it’s not happening. It’s all very average disposals by hand and foot.

Yes he breaks lines, runs fast and carries the ball..that’s great...good stuff.

But any decent mid does that.

Seeing McGrath weave his way through traffic and creating opportunities with his A grade handpasses and kicks at full speed is what it’s all about. Compare him to Shiel and i feel disappointed in what we gave up to get him.

Doesn’t mean I don’t think he adds value to our team.

I just expected more that’s all. But it’s not to be. At his age and level of experience, this is how he is.
Yeah ok, dumb statement re GWS Fwds. We just don't have good forward craft which doesn't help our mids.

Certainly needs to improve disposal, but has been good on the whole imo.
 

Shane Heard

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Yeah ok, dumb statement re GWS Fwds. We just don't have good forward craft which doesn't help our mids.

Certainly needs to improve disposal, but has been good on the whole imo.
Yes, our forwardline is a 3 ring circus of blokes running around waving arms and indecisive leading patterns that don’t make it easy for a mid as he looks up to deliver by foot.

We really are a mess of a team in general.

Winging it qrt by qrt and basic skill errors are killing us at times.

The players obviously have an all round lack of confidence in our structure as a side.

Hurley’s brief interview after the game in the rooms told the story of this lack of belief.

We have a fair way to go as a side before we look like a genuine top 4 team.
 

Maxabillions

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Mar 17, 2018
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I watched him very closely during that WC game the other week. Seats I had were 10 rows back from fence, dead in line with the centre circle..so as good as it gets when watching everything that goes on out on the field.

There was a moment in play on the Eagles half forward line near boundary where Shiel tried to panic hand pass out of trouble in congestion and delivered it straight to a West Coast player’s hands and off he went banging down to his forwardline for an eventual goal.
It was embarrassing.

Spent the whole game listening to various Eagles fans around me laughing at our prized recruit.

That doesn’t happen for no good reason.

All the footy world knows we have givin up a hell of a lot for this guy expecting him to be out best player week after week by now.

But that’s footy sometimes.
Yeah it seems like the whole teams skills are pretty average... maybe we’ll do some skills training over summer
 

MiguelM

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Feb 22, 2014
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Yes, our forwardline is a 3 ring circus of blokes running around waving arms and indecisive leading patterns that don’t make it easy for a mid as he looks up to deliver by foot.

We really are a mess of a team in general.

Winging it qrt by qrt and basic skill errors are killing us at times.

The players obviously have an all round lack of confidence in our structure as a side.

Hurley’s brief interview after the game in the rooms told the story of this lack of belief.

We have a fair way to go as a side before we look like a genuine top 4 team.
Agreed. Lack of confidence a big factor.

Skill level across the AFL as bad as I have seen. The Pies/Hawks game similar to ours. I think it is a result of defensive pressure.
 

Shane Heard

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Yeah it seems like the whole teams skills are pretty average... maybe we’ll do some skills training over summer
It’s not so much the skills that’s the problem. We lack team cohesion and structure when things don’t go our way and the other side start controlling the ball.

Good disciplined sides get on top of that stuff and ramp up the pressure.

We struggle to maintain momentum and play good team footy.

But of course we’re not the only ones struggling. It’s a tough competition.
 

Shane Heard

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Agreed. Lack of confidence a big factor.

Skill level across the AFL as bad as I have seen. The Pies/Hawks game similar to ours. I think it is a result of defensive pressure.
Yes, how a team reacts to the ebbs and flows of the opposition pressure is the difference.

The extreme example is the Gold Coast team yesterday just jogging around like they are all completely uninterested in playing hard footy. Mentally they gave up before qrt time and Richmond just waltzed around doing what they liked.

At least we haven’t got to that level yet in any match this year.

In the WC game we just got totally outplayed by a highly regimented side who know exactly what their doing all the time on the field.

6 players came into that Eagles side that night and all just slotted into their roles without a problem.

That’s the sign of a team full of confidence in how they want to play in an attacking way with the discipline and mindset of relentless hard work.
 

Zach Package

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It may also be symptomatic of having a forward line that is bush league.
No target puts pressure on the kicker to dispose of the ball, no one demanding it.

Too much is being made about our players inability to hit targets. The teams skill level is down yes and it will need to be turned around to get to where we want to but if you look around the league the skills are in the toilet.
A case study would also be the pies, their skills going inside 50 were atrocious up until they werent and became one of the best teams in the comp.

We have had a league where the entire plan has been create the loose and then work it down the field hitting open targets. Now we have a league where it's largely one on one and teams don't train skills. Recipe for some very poor displays right there.

It also seems pretty miserable to focus on nothing but some missed targets instead of being happy we have some speed away from clearance we haven't had in a decade.
No that’s just because we’re all negative pricks who can’t enjoy anything. The reality of the situation is that the forward line has had so much flux this year there’s been no chance for anyone to develop any kind of understanding or combination, let alone someone who’s new at the club.

Shiel’s forward half turnovers are mostly the result of expecting someone to zig who then proceeds to zag, which is frustrating because he’s creating so many gold plated chances on the back of breakaway speed and him putting the ball to where he thinks the forward should be going.
 

TheGreatBarryB

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2015 - 75% disposal efficiency
2016 - 72%
2017 - 71%
2018 - 69%
2019 - 65%

but he can turn it around... right guys....? i hope he just needs some focused training but thats a worrying trend.
Stat on its own is crap anyway, difference of ‘5%’ is last four years at Giants means bugger all. This year now team, teammates etc. to get used to.

Too much attention on the small amount he shanks. He’ll improve on that as Jobe did and Hepp has improved that side of his game as well.
 

BrunoV

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2015 - 75% disposal efficiency
2016 - 72%
2017 - 71%
2018 - 69%
2019 - 65%

but he can turn it around... right guys....? i hope he just needs some focused training but thats a worrying trend.

Would not have gone down the path of disposal efficiency as the stat is a complete waste of time.

The difference in the numbers there is a grand total 1 to 1.5 possessions a game. What would that bring Shiel down to, 7 complete howlers a game?

There is no point haveing efficient disposal going forward. Anything but hitting a target stuffs the whole entry up at least from the perspective of the intended entry. A player ought not be credited with efficient disposal because the forwards may convert a skill error into a "chaos ball".

The amount of s**t forwards cop both in terms of coaching and fan expectations you'd have be a sadomasochist to be a forward.

You're notionally there to score when that doesnt get in the way of defending.

You get few opportunities a game and cant even expect players on 800k a year to hit a target under no pressure.
 
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YEMOC NAYR

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That’s pretty unfair to keep bringing up the Stanton thing. Serves no purpose and just says to me you haven’t got anything constructive to say other than antagonistic retorts.

Its as plain as day the guy is a big disappointment as a top line, experienced midfielder recruit.

He’s played more than enough games with this team now to expect him to be in some kind of elite form.

But week after week he displays mediocre skills especially with his atrocious kicking and it’s incredibly frustrating to watch considering we all had such high hopes on how much value he would add.

I’ve already accepted he’s not going to be some kind of new bomber superstar.

He’s basically just going to be a hard working foot soldier who runs really fast with average kicking skills.

That’s just the way it is.

And people can defend him and try to cut down anyone who criticises him but the evidence is undeniable and right there in front of us.

He’s pretty average. That’s a fact.
What a load of dribble
 
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