Current 9yo Charlise Mutten - Blue Mountains * Justin Stein charged with murder

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Lady O

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Would we still be thinking the police might find she was involved, even after they've said she wasn't there and her statements are consistent, if we didn't know of her history?

Genuine question.
Well, we do know in another case, the Police stated the foster carers weren't considered suspects. Then 7 years later they were.
 

Black Hawk

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Would we still be thinking the police might find she was involved, even after they've said she wasn't there and her statements are consistent, if we didn't know of her history?

Genuine question.
Absolutely not.

The fact that the police were not able to clear her of any involvement for a week after Charlise was found gave the whole world time to pick her life apart piece by piece. She was judged on her history and not on the facts... because we didn't know the facts.

We know KM was trying to get her life back on track. Why would she do anything to put that in jeopardy?

All at once she lost her future and her child. Imagine the guilt she feels leaving Charlise with the accused. It’s any wonder she broke down.

Never thought I’d say this but I actually feel very sorry for her.
 

footscray1973

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Absolutely not.

The fact that the police were not able to clear her of any involvement for a week after Charlise was found gave the whole world time to pick her life apart piece by piece. She was judged on her history and not on the facts... because we didn't know the facts.

We know KM was trying to get her life back on track. Why would she do anything to put that in jeopardy?

All at once she lost her future and her child. Imagine the guilt she feels leaving Charlise with the accused. It’s any wonder she broke down.

Never thought I’d say this but I actually feel very sorry for her.
But aren't you assuming some facts in the same way that people assuming the worst are? While not charged and not a person of interest, we also don't know if her life actually was back on track, whether she inadvertently contributed to circumstances, or was entirely a victim of those same circumstances. You can't accuse people of assuming facts against her, then counter that to assume everything in her life was going swimmingly. There are still gaps in details that, when filled may well support your assumption, or they may well lend support to the opposite.
 

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Dogs_R_Us

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I might be naive but I think Mother’s only crime was getting involved with JS and then trusting him to have Charlise alone in his care. Mother must beside herself knowing she is carrying a baby fathered by Charlise’s alleged murderper. Personally I couldn’t keep the baby under the circumstances.
Other things we don’t know:
When did Charlise arrive for the holiday?
When did KM go to the caravan park, and why?
Why did she allow JS to take C back to Wildensteen?

Suggestion: the holiday actually commenced at the caravan park and perhaps they were meant to stay there for the two weeks. KM might have promised her mother it would be just the two of them staying there or grandma might not have allowed it. After a while - Tuesday: JS turned up and found there was no room for him. Possibly an argument… some reason … JS said how about I take C to see Wildenstein and come back tomorrow? Something happened, might have had the gun in the ute, unknown circumstances in which C was killed. Mega panic… what to do, with my record, parole etc etc… makes plan. Wednesday: KM phones, how is C? JS: fine, outside somewhere. Gotta do some chores here, buy some sand, get fuel for the boat, might go for a spin in it, we’ll stay here another night. Thursday: KM wants to come and join them, maybe a bit worried, gets to Wildenstein somehow, can’t find C, questions JS, he says he saw her earlier that afternoon, she’s out exploring but he’s sure she’ll come back. Friday morning: C hasn’t turned up, K calls the police.

This is just a theory trying to make some sense of it all.
 
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Black Hawk

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But aren't you assuming some facts in the same way that people assuming the worst are? While not charged and not a person of interest, we also don't know if her life actually was back on track, whether she inadvertently contributed to circumstances, or was entirely a victim of those same circumstances. You can't accuse people of assuming facts against her, then counter that to assume everything in her life was going swimmingly. There are still gaps in details that, when filled may well support your assumption, or they may well lend support to the opposite.
Definitely am making assumptions as I don't know all the facts. But from what I've read and heard, especially since she's spoken with the police, don't think she was involved at all. The gaps in her story I'm struggling to find. Seems to be a logical explanation for everything she's said and done.
 

Rob R

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There's a possbility the mother had covid and that's why Charlise was taken to Wildenstein. About a week in hospital where the cops couldn't approach her, fits with the isolation period.
Would have come out if it was COVID to try get sympathy. More likely in hospital to delay questioning while a story is developed and maybe to get something out of her system.

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Kurve

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Would have come out if it was COVID to try get sympathy. More likely in hospital to delay questioning while a story is developed and maybe to get something out of her system.

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While we can assume both of them have some knowledge in how to work the system to their advantage, we're in a pandemic and paramedics have better things to do than rig records to justify transport to the hospital to take up precious space and resources.
 

Rob R

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While we can assume both of them have some knowledge in how to work the system to their advantage, we're in a pandemic and paramedics have better things to do than rig records to justify transport to the hospital to take up precious space and resources.
No way would paramedics fake things but it is easy to fake mental issues and there are limits to what medical staff can share with the police. With a death already caused by her and the gaps in her story (missing days), she is a suspect until fully investigated and cleared.

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Kurve

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No way would paramedics fake things but it is easy to fake mental issues and there are limits to what medical staff can share with the police. With a death already caused by her and the gaps in her story (missing days), she is a suspect until fully investigated and cleared.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Is it really easy to fake mental issues? How do you know that? My reading says that it actually is not that easy.

Also, comparing a fatal dangerous driving incident and the firearm murder of her daughter where someone else has been charged is fundamentally different. It's apples and oranges.
 

footscray1973

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Other things we don’t know:
When did Charlise arrive for the holiday?
When did KM go to the caravan park, and why?
Why did she allow JS to take C back to Wildensteen?

Suggestion: the holiday actually commenced at the caravan park and perhaps they were meant to stay there for the two weeks. KM might have promised her mother it would be just the two of them staying there or grandma might not have allowed it. After a while - Tuesday: JS turned up and found there was no room for him. Possibly an argument… some reason … JS said how about I take C to see Wildenstein and come back tomorrow? Something happened, might have had the gun in the ute, unknown circumstances in which C was killed. Mega panic… what to do, with my record, parole etc etc… makes plan. Wednesday: KM phones, how is C? JS: fine, outside somewhere. Gotta do some chores here, buy some sand, get fuel for the boat, might go for a spin in it, we’ll stay here another night. Thursday: KM wants to come and join them, maybe a bit worried, gets to Wildenstein somehow, can’t find C, questions JS, he says he saw her earlier that afternoon, she’s out exploring but he’s sure she’ll come back. Friday morning: C hasn’t turned up, K calls the police.

This is just a theory trying to make some sense of it all.
All valid suppositions, sounds reasonable.
(You did leave out the bit about JS running over the tent though! :))
 

Kurve

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Still trying to work out where else Stein might have stopped in that 200kms round trip and dumped the gun.

Mr Doherty said there were still some “gaps” in the movements of that vehicle, noting it was relevant to the investigation that the blue tarp was no longer visible in the ute’s tray after the vehicle stopped at the Colo River.

“When you see the CCTV footage there’s a tarp on the back of the ute. What I can also say is that at some stage after leaving the Colo River, that item wasn’t on the ute when it stopped at another service station on Bells Line Road at Kurmond,” he said.

Police will allege in court Stein travelled from Wildenstein, to the north west and inner west suburbs of Sydney, and back to the Colo River near the Hawkesbury with Charlise’s body.

The alleged trip would have seen him spend up to five hours driving upwards of 200kms.

 

Kurve

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Nobody rang to tell her Charlise died from a gunshot, she heard it on the news.

EXCLUSIVE: Harrowing moment the mother of murdered girl Charlise Mutten 'ran screaming down a corridor' when she heard on the NEWS her daughter died from a gunshot wound - and sobbed about being pregnant with the alleged killer's baby

  • Kallista Mutten broke down screaming after learning details of daughter's death
  • Neighbours say she cried after police said Charlise Mutten died from a gunshot
  • Ms Mutten is being housed in temporary accommodation in western Sydney
  • Residents recognised Mutten from recent media reports about daughter's death
  • Ms Mutten told a neighbour who consoled her that she is pregnant
 

Dogs_R_Us

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Nobody rang to tell her Charlise died from a gunshot, she heard it on the news.

EXCLUSIVE: Harrowing moment the mother of murdered girl Charlise Mutten 'ran screaming down a corridor' when she heard on the NEWS her daughter died from a gunshot wound - and sobbed about being pregnant with the alleged killer's baby

  • Kallista Mutten broke down screaming after learning details of daughter's death
  • Neighbours say she cried after police said Charlise Mutten died from a gunshot
  • Ms Mutten is being housed in temporary accommodation in western Sydney
  • Residents recognised Mutten from recent media reports about daughter's death
  • Ms Mutten told a neighbour who consoled her that she is pregnant
Wow, that's rough.
 

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jason_recliner

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Still trying to work out where else Stein might have stopped in that 200kms round trip and dumped the gun.

Mr Doherty said there were still some “gaps” in the movements of that vehicle, noting it was relevant to the investigation that the blue tarp was no longer visible in the ute’s tray after the vehicle stopped at the Colo River.

“When you see the CCTV footage there’s a tarp on the back of the ute. What I can also say is that at some stage after leaving the Colo River, that item wasn’t on the ute when it stopped at another service station on Bells Line Road at Kurmond,” he said.

Police will allege in court Stein travelled from Wildenstein, to the north west and inner west suburbs of Sydney, and back to the Colo River near the Hawkesbury with Charlise’s body.

The alleged trip would have seen him spend up to five hours driving upwards of 200kms.

Do we know that he dumped it? If it was a gun owned by the family, maybe he used it and then put it back. Unlikely, but the guy's a moron.
 

Awakening

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Do we know that he dumped it? If it was a gun owned by the family, maybe he used it and then put it back. Unlikely, but the guy's a moron.

But then, wouldn't the police have found it? Presumably they've search his known residences, the caravan, his mothers place.
 

jason_recliner

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But then, wouldn't the police have found it? Presumably they've search his known residences, the caravan, his mothers place.
Sure, but I haven't heard that they're looking for a murder weapon. Not to say they aren't, I just haven't heard anything about it.
 

Kurve

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Do we know that he dumped it? If it was a gun owned by the family, maybe he used it and then put it back. Unlikely, but the guy's a moron.

I can't imagine they haven't already taken the house apart looking for it. They might be able to get a conviction without but they really need to try find it for the forensics, serial number etc.
 

jason_recliner

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I can't imagine they haven't already taken the house apart looking for it. They might be able to get a conviction without but they really need to try find it for the forensics, serial number etc.
For sure. I'm wondering if they already have it
 

BFew

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Nobody rang to tell her Charlise died from a gunshot, she heard it on the news.
Maybe the authorities thought they might be more likely to get the most natural and reaction from her, if she was not in the direct presence of Police when she got the news. A reaction that might assist Kallista in a number ways moving forwards.

Just like it has now probably done via that the Daily Mail article today that reported her reaction.
 

Lady O

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Maybe the authorities thought they might be more likely to get the most natural and reaction from her, if she was not in the direct presence of Police when she got the news. A reaction that might assist Kallista in a number ways moving forwards.

Just like it has now probably done via that the Daily Mail article today that reported her reaction.
If she is being treated like the mother of a victim I think they would be keeping her informed. So the fact that she did not find out until it was on TV is telling, don't you think?
 

BFew

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If she is being treated like the mother of a victim I think they would be keeping her informed. So the fact that she did not find out until it was on TV is telling, don't you think?
That's a good question.
One I thought long and hard about before I made my last post.
It's probably just a case of Charlise's sole legal carer (biological grandmother) having been informed before the media and Kallista was informed.

Maybe NSW Police policy needs to be reviewed/changed to make sure that in cases like this, where there is still some known contact with the biological parents, in the case of either the child having foster parents, or other sole carers in the family, that all of them are informed for things like cause of death, before the information is released to the public or the media.
 

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