Current 9yo Charlise Mutten - Blue Mountains * Justin Stein charged with murder

Interesting choice of words here. Difficult to contact her, difficult to approach her.

I'd expect something like "unable to question her further as she is receiving treatment/in medical care"

Why would it be difficult to contact someone in hospital? Is she refusing to take their calls?

Why say it's difficult to approach her? Implies they've tried to approach her but.... too distressed, too volatile, aggressive, violent?

And doctors not allowing police to speak with her? Is she that unwell? A child has been murdered. I wonder if she's at a hospital with a psych ward or she's had heart issues or what.

"Kallista suffered a medical episode after her daughter's disappearance, which she is still receiving treatment for in hospital.

It means police have not been able to interview her yet.

"It has been difficult to approach and contact her but at some stage hopefully when doctors allow, we will be talking further with her," Deputy Commissioner Hudson said."


In withdrawal?
 
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Some more new case facts reported this afternoon.
And some known ones with a bit more detail.

'Charlise Mutten’s accused killer Justin Stein drove around Sydney with her body'​

'drove around Sydney for up to five hours with her body in the back of a boat while he tried to work out where to dump her, police will allege.'

'Ms Mutten made the triple-0 call reporting her daughter missing on January 14 at 8.20am.'

'Central Local Court heard on Wednesday Stein had mental health issues that required large doses of drugs.'

'he also visited ... a Five Dock boat ramp and a Windsor boat ramp.'

'Police are waiting for the go-ahead from doctors to speak with Ms Mutten about her conversations with her fiance, with no evidence to suggest she was involved.
“We keep an open mind. We investigate, we don’t speculate,” Deputy Commissioner Hudson said.'

'Stein had been medicated for mental health issues at “high dosages” for “many years” and Magistrate Robert Williams agreed the medication should continue while he was on remand in jail.'
 
Do the police have some sort of new technology where they can access recordings of all our phone conversations or were the fiance and the mother texting each other about buying fuel and sand?

This all happened before the call was made to report Charlise missing so how do the cops know this?
They may have been onto them from the outset and got permission to check their phone records. (The FBI do it all the time, if the tv series Without a Trace is anything to go by 😉)
 
They may have been onto them from the outset and got permission to check their phone records. (The FBI do it all the time, if the tv series Without a Trace is anything to go by 😉)

I understand they would have got their phone records quickly but since when do phone records include actual details of what was discussed?

How do they know the mother and fiance discussed buying sandbags and fuel?
 
“No evidence to suggest she’s involved…”

Excuse Me Reaction GIF by Mashable
 

footscray1973

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Do the police have some sort of new technology where they can access recordings of all our phone conversations or were the fiance and the mother texting each other about buying fuel and sand?

This all happened before the call was made to report Charlise missing so how do the cops know the details of the conversations the mother and the fiance had?

Reading the last article link posted by Awakening, sounds like he made those calls after they reported her missing, so police must have been right onto him.
First and 4th paras:

1642576441909.png


Didn't he drive back and forwards to Penrith after the initial reporting of her being missing?

So trying to now re-align the time lines if she was missing for 3 days before the police were contacted, the night driving without lights when spotted by the neighbour was either to take the body (and barrel?) out near the river, or he's already taken her out there in the days before and was trying to work out how to dispose of the body perhaps.

Trying to decipher most recent media reports, he's then gone to Bunnings (after police were involved?), so by the nature of the disappearance police would be treating both mother and her boyfriend as suspects - standard practice I'd assume. Would have taken a record of their mobile numbers immediately, then default action would be to listen to their calls.

For a supposedly private-school educated member of a well-to-do family, sounds like all the brains reside with the brother who set up the wedding events company and property, although tbf accused's addiction has probably wiped a large part of any smarts he had left. If he was still trying to dispose of the body after police involvement, and the mother was involved in those conversations and didn't tell police, they both deserve everything they (hopefully) will get.

And I just come back to the grandmother - seems she is the maternal grandmother. Watches her daughter write-off her life, so at least salvages the grand-daughter from going down the same path, and becomes her primary carer. Now has effectively lost both of them. What a tragedy - for the grandmother and grand-daughter. Tbh, I don't have a drop of sympathy for the mother, hope she rots in prison.
 

DropBearess

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Do the police have some sort of new technology where they can access recordings of all our phone conversations or were the fiance and the mother texting each other about buying fuel and sand?

This all happened before the call was made to report Charlise missing so how do the cops know the details of the conversations the mother and the fiance had?

Maybe grandma had reason to think something was terribly wrong and alerted police before the mother did.
 
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Do the police have some sort of new technology where they can access recordings of all our phone conversations or were the fiance and the mother texting each other about buying fuel and sand?

This all happened before the call was made to report Charlise missing so how do the cops know the details of the conversations the mother and the fiance had?


I understand they would have got their phone records quickly but since when do phone records include actual details of what was discussed?

How do they know the mother and fiance discussed buying sandbags and fuel?
Pine Gap has some serious capabilities along those lines, primarily for military purposes, but it is not that new. It is just not known about by many. I would suggest the Police either have access to these services or have similar tech themselves for domestic purposes but I think they would need a reason to justify the expense of monitoring specific persons. I read somewhere that the accused was mixed up in handling large quantities of illegal drugs in the past so...

"it derives the phone numbers, it often derives the content of any communications,"

 

footscray1973

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Some more new case facts reported this afternoon.
And some known ones with a bit more detail.

'Charlise Mutten’s accused killer Justin Stein drove around Sydney with her body'​

'drove around Sydney for up to five hours with her body in the back of a boat while he tried to work out where to dump her, police will allege.'

'Ms Mutten made the triple-0 call reporting her daughter missing on January 14 at 8.20am.'

'Central Local Court heard on Wednesday Stein had mental health issues that required large doses of drugs.'

'he also visited ... a Five Dock boat ramp and a Windsor boat ramp.'

'Police are waiting for the go-ahead from doctors to speak with Ms Mutten about her conversations with her fiance, with no evidence to suggest she was involved.
“We keep an open mind. We investigate, we don’t speculate,” Deputy Commissioner Hudson said.'

'Stein had been medicated for mental health issues at “high dosages” for “many years” and Magistrate Robert Williams agreed the medication should continue while he was on remand in jail.'

****ing hell. I detest (as others have said) the constant references to 'mental health issues', and now 'large doses of drugs'.

Plenty of people have 'mental health issues' including in my immediate family. None of those people go around murdering 9yo kids and put their body in a towed boat.

If media are going to report those references, then they also need to include in the same sentence that both the accused and the mother are convicted criminals, with known drug issues unrelated to their mental health.
 

footscray1973

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“No evidence to suggest she’s involved…”

Excuse Me Reaction GIF by Mashable

That line in the article is weird, given the reporting has been that he discussed the sandbags with her, and fuel for a boat he was going to launch in Sydney. What did the mother think he was going to do - all while her daughter was apparently 'missing' - build a sandcastle out in the river?

It just defies logic. Daughter is missing for more than three days before reporting it, mother doesn't even have a record of what she was wearing (unsurprising if she was allegedly in a drug-addled state), mother talks to bf about sandbags AFTER disappearance, and she's 'not involved'! Very hard to believe.
 

footscray1973

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Reading the last article link posted by Awakening, sounds like he made those calls after they reported her missing, so police must have been right onto him.
First and 4th paras:

View attachment 1313367

Didn't he drive back and forwards to Penrith after the initial reporting of her being missing?

So trying to now re-align the time lines if she was missing for 3 days before the police were contacted, the night driving without lights when spotted by the neighbour was either to take the body (and barrel?) out near the river, or he's already taken her out there in the days before and was trying to work out how to dispose of the body perhaps.

Trying to decipher most recent media reports, he's then gone to Bunnings (after police were involved?), so by the nature of the disappearance police would be treating both mother and her boyfriend as suspects - standard practice I'd assume. Would have taken a record of their mobile numbers immediately, then default action would be to listen to their calls.

For a supposedly private-school educated member of a well-to-do family, sounds like all the brains reside with the brother who set up the wedding events company and property, although tbf accused's addiction has probably wiped a large part of any smarts he had left. If he was still trying to dispose of the body after police involvement, and the mother was involved in those conversations and didn't tell police, they both deserve everything they (hopefully) will get.

And I just come back to the grandmother - seems she is the maternal grandmother. Watches her daughter write-off her life, so at least salvages the grand-daughter from going down the same path, and becomes her primary carer. Now has effectively lost both of them. What a tragedy - for the grandmother and grand-daughter. Tbh, I don't have a drop of sympathy for the mother, hope she rots in prison.

Sorry, posted that then the details of him driving around with the body in the boat emerged. Time-line of all these events is a bit muddled, at least for me.

Assuming he killed her three days before mother reported her missing, is that when he discussed sandbags with the mother on the phone? Then that invalidates part of my post and Kurve is right, how could they be listening to their calls BEFORE the lass was reported missing?

At some point he must have taken the barrel option, but what was the drive out of the property at 4:30am with no lights for - to take the body to the Colo River, or take the barrel there, or both? At some point he tried dragging the barrel to the water too. I'm guessing all the specifics won't come out until it goes to trial.
 
That line in the article is weird, given the reporting has been that he discussed the sandbags with her, and fuel for a boat he was going to launch in Sydney. What did the mother think he was going to do - all while her daughter was apparently 'missing' - build a sandcastle out in the river?

It just defies logic. Daughter is missing for more than three days before reporting it, mother doesn't even have a record of what she was wearing (unsurprising if she was allegedly in a drug-addled state), mother talks to bf about sandbags AFTER disappearance, and she's 'not involved'! Very hard to believe.

IMO the press has messed some details up, I don't think there's phone evidence of the fiance and mother discussing sand bags and fuel and I don't think for a second, those two would be texting about it back and forth.

It doesn't make sense.
 

Lions777

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IMO the press has messed some details up, I don't think there's phone evidence of the fiance and mother discussing sand bags and fuel and I don't think for a second, those two would be texting about it back and forth.
The cop mentioned they had evidence of a conversation regarding this but I didn’t catch the entire presser, because I have two screaming kidlets on school holidays.
 

footscray1973

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Boat. Sandbags. Sydney boat ramp. Hoping to dump the body out at sea? 😳

Sounds like it, but multiple 40kg bags of sand! What does a 9yo weigh, 25-30kg? What is he going to put all that sand in? I doubt he was thinking straight anyway, so possibly would have botched any attempt.
 

footscray1973

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The barrel was full of sand

Ah, ok, missed that. Barrel would be pretty likely to break down in sea water eventually though, or if he doesn't put a lid on dropping it in deep water would it stay vertical or would it deviate, making sand spill out? Sorry, just thinking about the method - and I'm assuming it was a wine barrel from the property, not some plastic agricultural one, which would likely have a lid.
 
At 7:45 the police say they have no evidence to support anything other than the accused acting alone.

At 8:44 the police state that AFTER some phone calls between the mother and the fiance, the fiance bought sandbags and fuel then tried to float a boat. The cops aren't suggesting that the two colluded by talking about buying sandbags and fuel, only that there was a flurry of calls between the two that were electronically registered and went into the timeline in tracking his movements. The context of the phone calls between the two is the timeline, not what they talked about.

The mother when she finally talks to the police, might even say her and the fiance had a fight and she thought Charlise was with him. That those phone calls were her trying to find out what was going on and demanding to speak to her daughter.

 
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Some more new case facts reported this afternoon.
And some known ones with a bit more detail.

'Charlise Mutten’s accused killer Justin Stein drove around Sydney with her body'​

'drove around Sydney for up to five hours with her body in the back of a boat while he tried to work out where to dump her, police will allege.'

'Ms Mutten made the triple-0 call reporting her daughter missing on January 14 at 8.20am.'

'Central Local Court heard on Wednesday Stein had mental health issues that required large doses of drugs.'

'he also visited ... a Five Dock boat ramp and a Windsor boat ramp.'

'Police are waiting for the go-ahead from doctors to speak with Ms Mutten about her conversations with her fiance, with no evidence to suggest she was involved.
“We keep an open mind. We investigate, we don’t speculate,” Deputy Commissioner Hudson said.'

'Stein had been medicated for mental health issues at “high dosages” for “many years” and Magistrate Robert Williams agreed the medication should continue while he was on remand in jail.'
This article was updated 6:53pm tonight.
Something new in it or that I missed in the initial version

'The Daily Telegraph can also reveal detectives believe last Tuesday night, the girl’s mother Kallista Mutten left her daughter in the care of her fiance Justin Laurens Stein at the Blue Mountains property where all of them had been holidaying.'


So where did the accused's fiance go that Tuesday night then?
 

Cyber_punk

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A pity execution is not a thing, like others have said hopefully the other inmates get to him
 
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We'll assume that a senior family member would give BF permission to identify Charlise, or that in this case, the NSW laws are an arse, and that they will eventually be changed, as the result of the current review into them.

'an absurd situation in which a deceased child cannot be identified by the media in public interest reporting once charges have been laid, even where they had been broadly identified before charges were laid.'

'NSW’s laws against identifying children involved in criminal proceedings go further than any other Australian state or territory.
It is the only state that expressly restricts publication of identifying material regarding deceased children and extends beyond child witnesses to children who are somehow connected to the proceeding but themselves have had no involvement at all.
A senior available next of kin can consent to the identification of a deceased child in NSW.'


'The NSW Law Reform Commission is undertaking a review of laws that encroach on the principle of open justice, including these laws.
The commission has sought submissions in relation to a proposal to make these provisions more consistent, including by removing the prohibition on publishing the identity of a deceased child.'

'A senior family member gave the Herald permission to identify Charlise.'
 
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