AFLW A 14 team competition in 2018/19

[NoobPie]

OK, so given the news that the AFL is likely to add 6 teams in 18/19, this is my proposed fixture

Key is, that the season starts in the middle of october, not November....I am suspect that this will occur because the AFL will go conservative and and try to shoe horn a 7 game competition in between the tennis and round 1 of the mens regardless of the number of teams.

I think they would be missing a massive opportunity. They would be worried about cost and over exposure too soon no doubt but I think the first season suggested that people will be patient with the improvement in standards.

Spring is a far better climate for football than summer. With a shortened pre-season (starting at the start of September) you are looking to up to a 7 month season (2 months more than currently?)...with base salary of say $20k and perhaps an average of $30k than the total salary bill would be about $14M....with a total competition cost of perhaps $30 to $40 million. It is not inconceivable that the AFL/clubs could recover a fair chunk of that through sponsorship and membership and perhaps even some broadcast rights. eg (clubs / competition) pull an average $1million in sponsorship, $500k in membership and you are half way there

The opportunity is massive. It would be very hard for it to lose the moniker as the globally dominant women's contact football league even if it generally made poor decisions from here. If it goes hard early and pays $1m per club salaries and spans 4 to 5 months that then mens league isn't playing at suburban grounds than it could be a world leader across women's sport with only the the WNBA having its measure. In its first very short year it was paying similar amounts of money as the american and english womens soccer leagues.

It would also completely smash the W League (and give the A League a massive belt) and would pretty much make it impossible for the NRL to get anything meaningful off the ground in terms of women's league

What concerns me is the AFL will go softly and reduce its advantage. Alternatively they could push in to summer and get crowded out by the BBL and play in the most oppressive time of the year, or otherwise move in to the AFL season....

 

[wally funk]

I'd love to see a women's season that goes longer than two months, but adding six teams at once is bonkers. I can't see how diluting the talent pool so rapidly would make for a good spectacle. There are surely few who who genuinely suggest that there are fourteen teams worth of A-class female players by the start of 2019.

I also can't see the AFL signing off on a women's season that cuts right through the men's finals series. At least, not while the AFLW is so young. In ten years, I could picture some overlap. Hell, they might even decide the women's and men's seasons should both run through autumn/winter - something that seems more a matter of 'when' than 'if'.

I just really hope the AFL/AFLW doesn't go down any road that involves teams not playing every other team at all in a season. The rounds absolutely have to increase equally with the inclusion of each new womens team, or else be labelled a farce.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I'd love to see a women's season that goes longer than two months, but adding six teams at once is bonkers. I can't see how diluting the talent pool so rapidly would make for a good spectacle. There are surely few who who genuinely suggest that there are fourteen teams worth of A-class female players by the start of 2019.

I also can't see the AFL signing off on a women's season that cuts right through the men's finals series. At least, not while the AFLW is so young. In ten years, I could picture some overlap. Hell, they might even decide the women's and men's seasons should both run through autumn/winter - something that seems more a matter of 'when' than 'if'.

I just really hope the AFL/AFLW doesn't go down any road that involves teams not playing every other team at all in a season. The rounds absolutely have to increase equally with the inclusion of each new womens team, or else be labelled a farce.

A question I've put to the masses and nobody's really seem to be able to answer:

Of those who watched on TV and went to the games, how many went for the buzz of the initial season and not the actual quality of footy? How many will stop going and watching next year if the theoretically entire fixture was kept identical for next year?

How much of the drop-off late-season was because of the pre-season buzz momentum of the league dropping away (especially as teams fell away from Grand Final contention), and how much was merely because it started coming up against the JLT cup?

How much of the drop-off was late-season was because the grounds and times were shifted to worse grounds against the JLT, and now that the AFLW should take priority, how much will it recover?

How elastic is the crowds/attendance to the quality of footy on display? Will more people go to the games if it's a better quality, or will people not care because they love the fact females are playing footy and rock up anyway?

If the fans of teams not in the AFLW weren't going to neutral games or hadn't adopted a 2nd team, how much more likely will they go to their new team's games?

These are the key questions that need to be answered for introducing teams.

I fear that the improvements in ground locations, and scheduling (for example, Sydney as a city had two games - 5pm Friday and 12pm Saturday, many who would have wanted to go to a game in Sydney might have missed out) might not overcome the "buzz" that the inaugural season initiated. I then fear that the increase in teams and bringing in the fans of these teams won't overcome the decrease, or lack of increase in quality, because I fear there will be a large amount of viewers last year who will switch off once they see the quality won't improve.

Then on top of all that, you risk undermining the competition if all teams don't play each other once. That's another issue.

 

[Gigantor]

Should the AFLW become a summer competition?
By
Matt Marsden
-
August 25, 2017
With four teams expected to join the AFLW in 2019 and more clubs to follow in years to come, the league fixture is also destined for expansion.
The eight-team, two-month format will have its last hoorah next year, as the country’s top tier women’s footy league will begin to look like less of a championship carnival and more like a fledged competition come 2019.

http://[NB: girlsplayfooty domain h...uld-the-aflw-become-a-summer-competition.html

[article premised on there being 12 teams from 2019, throwing around various options, it's pretty clear that once you get to 14 teams, you have to start from early Dec, if not earlier, to not overlap the mens]

 

[The_Wookie]

I reckon they'll go to a division structure, to limit the length of time needed

 

[Teen Wolf]

I reckon they'll go to a division structure, to limit the length of time needed

Could also help to dramatically reduce travel costs and increase crowds, if done right. But it's a silly idea because I-don't-know-why-it-just-is.

 

[NoobPie]

I think this year there is no getting passed the Jan 2O kick off. With 7 games and two weeks of finals.

They could go down the path of creating two pools and stick with the same season lemgth but I now strongly support as per my op starting in late spring and playing a complete round robin following expansion.

In the case of a 14 team competition, play 9 rounds pre Christmas and 4 plus 3 weeks of knockout finals afterwards. All teams with at least 3 of 9 wins would stil be alive going into the break.

The reasons I'd imagine the afl would be reluctant include

Cost-a longer season would require bigger lists playing for longer. Meaning higher salaries and broader logistics and administrative costs

Over saturation - perception people might only have a certain appetite for the women's football and an extra 8 weeks could throw that off.

Pathways- a longer season would preclude the women from playing in the state leagues and the filter down effect that has on quality in the process

The afl is got to where it is with schrewd balance between risk and prudence. In my opinion a women's league of proper length would cement the game's dominance in this country as the preeminent code as much as anything there is left to do in the men's game.

The prospect as a Collingwood fan of playing six or seven matches at vic park, including against the likes of Carlton Essendon and Richmond, are off the charts exciting

 

[The_Wookie]

The prospect as a Collingwood fan of playing six or seven matches at vic park, including against the likes of Carlton Essendon and Richmond, are off the charts exciting

I reckon the league will go for a Princes Park match in all of those cases.

 

[NoobPie]

I reckon the league will go for a Princes Park match in all of those cases.

Well they'd be stupid.

 

[The_Wookie]

Well they'd be stupid.

Like it or not, Princes Park has the capacity and facilities needed for such a game and the AFL was very happy with it, and is exploring options to upgrade things at the ground already. Victoria park may not even be able to hold games if the council doesnt want it to.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Like it or not, Princes Park has the capacity and facilities needed for such a game and the AFL was very happy with it, and is exploring options to upgrade things at the ground already. Victoria park may not even be able to hold games if the council doesnt want it to.

Vic Park has Fitzroy YJFL Colts & VAFA Fitzroy games there. Surface is like a bowling green.
It is still magnificent, with 2 seated stands & an embankment-concrete standing room (so good for viewing) Should easily accomodate 15,000+ with its big standing room. Coll. fans would riot if games were not permitted there -even I would go there for the history (& I intensely dislike Coll. for its arrogance -because it is so rich, expects it should be entitled to"buy" premierships; inflated Football Dept. spending, which significantly impacts/reduces much needed GR development funding).

For those who think the AFLW can go to 14 teams in 2019, get ready for a big skills drop-off: tackleball/stoppages/rolling maul fest! Enjoy! And many teams kicking 0,1,or 2 goals only -which will hurt the AFLW.

Not even the AFL, as incompetent as it sometimes is, could be this stupid. Decent (doesn't have to be great) AFLW skill levels ARE very important! 95% must be able to kick well on their preferred, handball both sides, take an uncontested chest mark & overhead consistently.
Why expose the AFLW to ridicule. The ABC has a program this Th. @9.30 pm AEST on the birth of the AFLW, called "Heroes". Do some wish to see the goodwill to the AFLW evaporate! Hasten slowly.

 

[The_Wookie]

Vic Park has Fitzroy YJFL Colts & VAFA Fitzroy games there. Surface is like a bowling green.
It is still magnificent, with 2 seated stands & an embankment-concrete standing room (so good for viewing) Should easily accomodate 15,000+ with its big standing room. Coll. fans would riot if games were not permitted there -even I would go there for the history (& I intensely dislike Coll. for its arrogance -because it is so rich, expects it should be entitled to"buy" premierships; inflated Football Dept. spending, which significantly impacts/reduces much needed GR development funding).

All of the above may be true, and the council still wont care. In fact the prospect of larger crowds is likely to count against it.

 

[BringBackTorps]

A question I've put to the masses and nobody's really seem to be able to answer:

Of those who watched on TV and went to the games, how many went for the buzz of the initial season and not the actual quality of footy? How many will stop going and watching next year if the theoretically entire fixture was kept identical for next year?

How much of the drop-off late-season was because of the pre-season buzz momentum of the league dropping away (especially as teams fell away from Grand Final contention), and how much was merely because it started coming up against the JLT cup?

How much of the drop-off was late-season was because the grounds and times were shifted to worse grounds against the JLT, and now that the AFLW should take priority, how much will it recover?

How elastic is the crowds/attendance to the quality of footy on display? Will more people go to the games if it's a better quality, or will people not care because they love the fact females are playing footy and rock up anyway?

If the fans of teams not in the AFLW weren't going to neutral games or hadn't adopted a 2nd team, how much more likely will they go to their new team's games?

These are the key questions that need to be answered for introducing teams.

I fear that the improvements in ground locations, and scheduling (for example, Sydney as a city had two games - 5pm Friday and 12pm Saturday, many who would have wanted to go to a game in Sydney might have missed out) might not overcome the "buzz" that the inaugural season initiated. I then fear that the increase in teams and bringing in the fans of these teams won't overcome the decrease, or lack of increase in quality, because I fear there will be a large amount of viewers last year who will switch off once they see the quality won't improve.

Then on top of all that, you risk undermining the competition if all teams don't play each other once. That's another issue.

Good questions.

It was always obvious playing AFLW games concurrently with the men's JLT would cause a significant reduction in ratings/crowd/media coverage for the AFLW -which is what transpired.
5pm, 6pm workday games, as well as 11am or midday weekend games are obviously inappropriate also.
Proper Finals series is also essential. More teams are in contention, for longer: more "meaningful"games, thus generates longer interest.

Skills were OK -it is the intensity of the women pummelling each other that made the games interesting & exciting. Hopefully we never again see teams kick only 1 goal -a bad look.
I also suspect playing games on a balmy summer evening were a big attraction of the AFLW -& playing games at traditional, old suburban footy grounds. MAGIC!
If games start before Nov., fans craving for a football fix may not have developed -too soon after the GF? We will learn more from the SOO crowd: if it is very good, then perhaps an Oct. start to the AFLW is OK -but if it is poor, then it is arguable a late Nov. start is best.

Dont schedule games concurrently with BBL/Tennis finals ONLY.

Expansion must ensure average skill levels cannot be permitted to decline below 2017 average levels. There is a reason VFLW games attract only a few hundred spectators.

I suspect there is a "feminist advancement"element to the interest in the AFLW -if I'm correct, this won't decline.

The massive growth in female player nos. Aust. wide implies the interest in the AFLW is likely to increase, not decrease. And Councils/Govts/Sponsors have a strong desire to be seen pushing female sport (Council INITIATED contact with my jnr. Club, enquiring if we wanted Council financial assistance to expand our female facilities!).

 

[NoobPie]

The benefits to Collingwood and the aflw generally and Yarra of having Collingwood women's matches, including against traditional rivals, at vic park are overwhelming. Any agent, collingwood, Yarra, or the afl or combination of might prevent it through alterior motives or stupidity or some combination of.

Close part of lulienstreet off and put up a big screen if you are worried about overflow. If it doesn't happen it will ultimately because Collingwood didn't invest enough in making it happen

 

[The_Wookie]

The benefits to Collingwood and the aflw generally and Yarra of having Collingwood women's matches, including against traditional rivals, at vic park are overwhelming.

lol no they arent.

Any agent, collingwood, Yarra, or the afl or combination of might prevent it through alterior motives or stupidity or some combination of.

Or straight out practicality, it really depends on your view.

Close part of lulienstreet off and put up a big screen if you are worried about overflow. If it doesn't happen it will ultimately because Collingwood didn't invest enough in making it happen

Council might determine it doesnt matter regardless.

 

[NoobPie]

lol no they arent.

"Lol" who are you? Seriously? Pedantically correct my factual errors by all means you're in no position to "lol" my take on things that rely on vision,imagination or Collingwood for that matter.

There is no way Yarra is stopping Collingwood women's games under any serious public pressure and financial (limited ) commitment from Collingwood and the afl. There is no way it is in collingwoods interest, and therefore the afl's, to play home games at a princess park

 

[The_Wookie]

"Lol" who are you? Seriously? Pedantically correct my factual errors by all means you're in no position to "lol" my take on things that rely on vision,imagination or Collingwood for that matter.

You wrote they are overwhelming. They most certainly arent that compelling we cant do without them. And Ill lol on whatever i think is funny.

There is no way Yarra is stopping Collingwood women's games under any serious public pressure and financial (limited ) commitment from Collingwood and the afl.

of course theres a way. The council have refused the Pies before.

There is no way it is in collingwoods interest, and therefore the afl's, to play home games at a princess park

Collingwoods interest and the AFLs interest arent always in step.

 

[NoobPie]

You wrote they are overwhelming. They most certainly arent that compelling we cant do without them. And Ill lol on whatever i think is funny.



of course theres a way. The council have refused the Pies before.



Collingwoods interest and the AFLs interest arent always in step.

Collingwood women playing at the spiritual home of Collingwood is overwhelmingly in the in interest of the aflw and therefore the afl. It is also also politically irresistible for Yarra council if there was serious commitment from Collingwood and the afl to that end,

If Collingwood were stupid, they would make meek efforts with an agenda to have Olympic park developed down the track

If the afl are stupid they'll load all big melbourne derbies into princes park and destroy the magic and point of difference that aflw clubs playing on their spiritual homes offers. They'll do this with a myopic focus on cost

Yarra would have uber progressive events event that wiykld gave far more support than a handful of resistant locals.

 

[The_Wookie]

Collingwood women playing at the spiritual home of Collingwood is overwhelmingly in the in interest of the aflw and therefore the afl. It is also also politically irresistible for Yarra council if there was serious commitment from Collingwood and the afl to that end,

There wont be a serious commitment from the AFL to that end.

If Collingwood were stupid, they would make meek efforts with an agenda to have Olympic park developed down the track

And yet witness what they've done to date.

If the afl are stupid they'll load all big melbourne derbies into princes park and destroy the magic and point of difference that aflw clubs playing on their spiritual homes offers. They'll do this with a myopic focus on cost.

The same magic and point of difference that had the magpies playing at olympic park and the demons at casey, with all their heritage and spiritual bullshit? right.

The AFL are paying the for it after all. The clubs certainly arent at this point. The magic last season was from playing at local grounds, not specifically heritage related - other than the Blues and Dogs not one other club played at a ground with any historical relationship to that club. And yes I mean Fremantle too.

Yarra would have uber progressive events event that wiykld gave far more support than a handful of resistant locals.

all im saying is that there is historical precedent for the council to knock back the Pies efforts to do things.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Collingwood women playing at the spiritual home of Collingwood is overwhelmingly in the in interest of the aflw and therefore the afl. It is also also politically irresistible for Yarra council if there was serious commitment from Collingwood and the afl to that end,

If Collingwood were stupid, they would make meek efforts with an agenda to have Olympic park developed down the track

If the afl are stupid they'll load all big melbourne derbies into princes park and destroy the magic and point of difference that aflw clubs playing on their spiritual homes offers. They'll do this with a myopic focus on cost

Yarra would have uber progressive events event that wiykld gave far more support than a handful of resistant locals.

You are 100% correct, palpably so. All the Coll. fans I know are salivating at going back to Vic. Park, with big crowds -even some who have shown little interest in the AFLW.

I went to several women's games at Oly. Park. It is a FLAT, suburban oval -so, without embankments, viewing is VERY poor. There is virtually NO seating, & no cover from the hot sun (unless you want to stand next to a building for shade -but this means people in front of you are likely to block your view! Queing up for the toilets, with the small crowds (c.3,000) was not enjoyable. AFAIK, there is no long term non-resident parking within a c.30 minute walk of Oly. Park -but the station is fairly close.

The City Of Yarra would not want to upset the Sisterhood, by putting roadblocks up for the AFLW/women's sport (But they told the blokes at Richmond Central VAFA club they could not put up TEMPORARY gameday sponsors' banners -because it detracted from the visual "pristine" parkland environment!).

Of course Yarra Council would want to promote economic activity for the many bars, restaurants , cafes nearby -for 15,000+ fans to sate their thirst/hunger before/after the game. And these businesses are paying high Commercial Yarra Council Rates & State Govt. land tax, & employ many workers. These businesses would be very unhappy if their Council knocked back Vic. Park (...actually, knowing the complexion of the City Of Yarra Proletarian United Front Council views, maybe I'm wrong).

I am not aware of any Coll. FC or Yarra Council or AFL officials publicly downplaying the chances for Vic. Park, with its seething masses, to return to all its fabled glory
McGuire is already encountering much internal disquiet from the Coll. faithful -failing to achieve a return to one of the icons of AF (& still a very good stadium) could be disastrous for his Presidency.

 

[NoobPie]

You are 100% correct, palpably so. All the Coll. fans I know are salivating at going back to Vic. Park, with big crowds -even some who have shown little interest in the AFLW.

I went to several women's games at Oly. Park. It is a FLAT, suburban oval -so, without embankments, viewing is VERY poor. There is virtually NO seating, & no cover from the hot sun (unless you want to stand next to a building for shade -but this means people in front of you are likely to block your view! Queing up for the toilets, with the small crowds (c.3,000) was not enjoyable. AFAIK, there is no long term non-resident parking within a c.30 minute walk of Oly. Park -but the station is fairly close.

The City Of Yarra would not want to upset the Sisterhood, by putting roadblocks up for the AFLW/women's sport (But they told the blokes at Richmond Central VAFA club they could not put up TEMPORARY gameday sponsors' banners -because it detracted from the visual "pristine" parkland environment!).

Of course Yarra Council would want to promote economic activity for the many bars, restaurants , cafes nearby -for 15,000+ fans to sate their thirst/hunger before/after the game. And these businesses are paying high Commercial Yarra Council Rates & State Govt. land tax, & employ many workers. These businesses would be very unhappy if their Council knocked back Vic. Park (...actually, knowing the complexion of the City Of Yarra Proletarian United Front Council views, maybe I'm wrong).

I am not aware of any Coll. FC or Yarra Council or AFL officials publicly downplaying the chances for Vic. Park, with its seething masses, to return to all its fabled glory
Maguire is already encountering much internal disquiet from the Coll. faithful -failing to achieve a return to one of the icons of AF (& still a very good stadium) could be disastrous for his Presidency.

Yep, agreed. I suspect we'll end up with 2 games at vic park (against vic) and 2 at the holden centre (against non vic). All four should be at vic park but the club wants to utilise the corporate facilities at olympic park. The majority of the Yarra councillers would be either pro, or politically inclined to support women;'s football at Vic park. A commiment from Collingwood with any vision and imagination would make it happen

 

[BringBackTorps]

Yep, agreed. I suspect we'll end up with 2 games at vic park (against vic) and 2 at the holden centre (against non vic). All four should be at vic park but the club wants to utilise the corporate facilities at olympic park. The majority of the Yarra councillers would be either pro, or politically inclined to support women;'s football at Vic park. A commiment from Collingwood with any vision and imagination would make it happen

Why would Coll. want to play 2 games at tiny OP -it is FLAT, so attrocious viewing; virtually no seating/cover from the sun. It would be insulting to the AFLW & the big crowds who obviously prefer ol'time footy at Vic. Park.
Why would anyone want to deny the AFLW, & women's AF generally, the big boost by having games at a packed Vic. Park? How could it be justified?

 

[NoobPie]

Why would Coll. want to play 2 games at tiny OP -it is FLAT, so attrocious viewing; virtually no seating/cover from the sun. It would be insulting to the AFLW & the big crowds who obviously prefer ol'time footy at Vic. Park.
Why would anyone want to deny the AFLW, & women's AF generally, the big boost by having games at a packed Vic. Park? How could it be justified?

Because it's not about the supporters at all....its about the plush corporate facilities http://theglasshouse.com.au/about/

 

[The_Wookie]

Why would anyone want to deny the AFLW, & women's AF generally, the big boost by having games at a packed Vic. Park? How could it be justified?

The same way the AFL justifies non Etihad teams having to play at Etihad or Geelong not getting home finals or 11 games a year at Kardinia Park. The league will do what it feels is best for the league, not necessarily what is best for Collingwood.

 

[BringBackTorps]

The same way the AFL justifies non Etihad teams having to play at Etihad or Geelong not getting home finals or 11 games a year at Kardinia Park. The league will do what it feels is best for the league, not necessarily what is best for Collingwood.

The AFL has a policy of MAXIMISING crowds -which is why, sometimes against "big"opponents, Geelong wont get home finals; or always having its home games at KP.
Their policy of maximising crowds must also apply to the AFLW -Vic.Park can easily take 15,000+, Oly. Park c3500.
Therefore, the AFL will not be following its own policy -and will expose itself to an uproar from Coll. fans, & women's football supporters if Coll. plays AFLW games at its little suburban oval/training ground.