Strategy A BIG.. BIG.. ISSUE.

Remove this Banner Ad

lukiuslion

Cancelled
Feb 9, 2010
1,567
1,436
Melbourne
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
actually think our midfield is becoming a concern as much as our forwards... you always need 8 quality mids to take you deep into finals and atm the only guys I see truely be of top quality are Rich, Beams, Rockliff, Bundy and Taylor... guys like redden & Mayes are stalled or going backwards. Other fringe players I just cant get excited over. I am now thinking our midfield isnt "Ready to Go" and will still need a A graders to take us forward. So far our whole season has been bottom down due to our inept midfield & HB/HF rotations.

This is true. That's why I have learn't completely hold back on the 'he is going to be a gun' when watching Mcgrath and cutler this year. We have had lots of first/ second year promise, likely just because of the fact our first year players actually get a decent run, but for one reason or another they just don't go on with it. I feel like Rich and to a lesser extent Zorko are the last 2 players to actually live up to the promise heading into into the middle stages of there career.

I have said many times we way over rate our players so maybe your right, maybe our midfield isn't set, which changes this argument all together as it assumes KPP's are our only draft/ trade/ FA need. Sam Mayes kills me the most, when he is on its a great thing to watch, gotta wonder why you play him out of position during his second year, totally lost his confidence.
 
Sep 14, 2012
14,718
15,189
Broadbeach
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
We still havn't seen how our first choice midfield works yet and it will take towards the end of the season for them to click. Although I think our midfield has some offensive capabilities we have been very poor defensively for years now. I think we should bring in a mature aged FA to teach them what hard two way running is.

Black IIRC is our midfield coach and he hasn't had to learn to run defensively much in his career so hopefully we can bring in a someone who knows how.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Quigley

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 23, 2006
8,700
10,315
Bangalla
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
actually think our midfield is becoming a concern as much as our forwards... you always need 8 quality mids to take you deep into finals and atm the only guys I see truely be of top quality are Rich, Beams, Rockliff, Bundy and Taylor... guys like redden & Mayes are stalled or going backwards. Other fringe players I just cant get excited over. I am now thinking our midfield isnt "Ready to Go" and will still need a A graders to take us forward. So far our whole season has been bottom down due to our inept midfield & HB/HF rotations.

You are missing Hanley who does add a lot to the midfield unit.

A Grade
Rockliff
Hanley
Beams
Rich
Christensen - needs to work both ways. Not playing A grade atm.

B Grade - key complimentary players
Redden - out of form but he is an above average mid
Zorko - another out of form but still above average

C Grade - average types who are fringe 22
Bewick
Lester
Robinson

To Be Determined - if they can step up they can make all the difference
Taylor
Aish - if he stays
Robertson
ZOB - just needs to clean up his disposal
Paparone - I think he ends up a running utility

With the Academy kids coming through (and Hanley mark II) I do not think we really need to add too much. Another A grade inside mid would be very handy but I do not think the situation is anywhere near as dire as up forward. They do need a good kick up the rear end though as they have been just coasting so far this year.
 
I'm confused as to what stage of development we're in as a whole relative to pushing for finals etc. Some posters have suggested we're now in a full rebuild...but surely that's not the case?
 
I'm confused as to what stage of development we're in as a whole relative to pushing for finals etc. Some posters have suggested we're now in a full rebuild...but surely that's not the case?

We're still on the starting line I would think. Mechanically sound and with a full tank of gas. But a couple of missing parts have meant that the engine has just stalled.

Every player on our list is capable of more than they have shown in the first four games. It is Leppa's role (and personal pride I would hope) to motivate them back to that level and beyond.
 
We're still on the starting line I would think. Mechanically sound and with a full tank of gas. But a couple of missing parts have meant that the engine has just stalled.

Every player on our list is capable of more than they have shown in the first four games. It is Leppa's role (and personal pride I would hope) to motivate them back to that level and beyond.

The bold is how I see it. We have a good enough core group of players (maybe)...but with a few missing parts. We're not in the position of a Carlton where people are suggesting we trade current players to get heaps of picks to start building.

But what I also think is that if we can't fill some of those empty slots soon then we run the risk of getting to the list age/management problem in a few years.
 

jjami15

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 16, 2011
5,211
7,093
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Without seeing the national champs yet it is hard to state whether that this draft of KPP's has the quality that we are crying out for. However our current KPP's are young and some untested and as seen with one or two injuries we don't really have too much depth in these ares outside of our youngsters. I look forward to seeing how Weitering and Schache go in these champs and as the best two respective KPD's and KPF's then I would be quite happy if we were to add them to our squad.

I think that the 2013 draftees (-Aish) will be the bones of our future team that could make a push for finals in 5+. We have been slammed with the GC and GWS coming and the 'go home 5' but if we use that crop of draftees which have shown something to build on I'm quite bullish, plus you add in the likes of Green, Clarke and Mayes.
 
The Big Issue for us is that it is going to take time for all the young talent to develop. The club doesn't have time to wait though. The fans have had a gutful. We need some wins to get fans through the gate and more sponsors.
 

MacMum

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 6, 2007
22,930
14,900
Ballarat
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
IF we can get all our players back in the team, we have plenty who can kick goals......now, before anyone gets their knickers in a knot, I am aware that we need to replace Browny, but......

I see our major priority is in the back line.......therefor would rather see us go for a defender e.g. Rance, first.

Defenders stop the opposition getting goals (duh MM) and that simplistic look at the situation imo is a week to week problem that must be solved......No good having a player waiting in the goal square, if we are letting the opposition get their goals down the other end.
 

Skoob

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 6, 2010
13,912
21,163
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I'm confused as to what stage of development we're in as a whole relative to pushing for finals etc. Some posters have suggested we're now in a full rebuild...but surely that's not the case?
I see teams like Sydney and Hawthorn as solid & established, getting a patch & coat of paint each year.
swans.jpg


Gold Coast and GWS are shiny and new. Plenty of work to do, but most of their materials are there, waiting to be put together.
gc.jpg



The Lions? Well, we have a solid base, but waiting for the rest of the building blocks to come. We do have a shed full of finishing touches and fittings, but not a complete building to put them on.
bl.jpg
 
IF we can get all our players back in the team, we have plenty who can kick goals......now, before anyone gets their knickers in a knot, I am aware that we need to replace Browny, but......

I see our major priority is in the back line.......therefor would rather see us go for a defender e.g. Rance, first.

Defenders stop the opposition getting goals (duh MM) and that simplistic look at the situation imo is a week to week problem that must be solved......No good having a player waiting in the goal square, if we are letting the opposition get their goals down the other end.

The modern day role though isn't really to sit in the goal square. A quality KPF will get up the ground and help out defensively etc. The alternative to your argument is that we'll never win games because we're defending all of the time. The forward we recruit doesn't need to kick a goal every time we have an entry but they need to be able to split packs at a bare minimum to facilitate goal scoring from surrounding players.

TBH I think they're both major priorities anyway. I just think we have a few tall defenders who are already proving to be quite good in Clarke and Gardiner. We have 0 quality tall forwards.
 

Skoob

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 6, 2010
13,912
21,163
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
IF we can get all our players back in the team, we have plenty who can kick goals......now, before anyone gets their knickers in a knot, I am aware that we need to replace Browny, but......

I see our major priority is in the back line.......therefor would rather see us go for a defender e.g. Rance, first.

Defenders stop the opposition getting goals (duh MM) and that simplistic look at the situation imo is a week to week problem that must be solved......No good having a player waiting in the goal square, if we are letting the opposition get their goals down the other end.
But most of our goals conceded come from our midfield and forward line. Without a couple of reliable targets up forward, confidence going there is low. Indecision leads to turn overs and the ball finds it's way back to our under siege defenders. I'm confident the midfield can steady and excel, but they need that strong forward line to kick to with confidence of getting and keeping the ball down our end. The job for our defenders will suddenly become much easier.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

MacMum

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 6, 2007
22,930
14,900
Ballarat
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I do agree with you Skoob and Elixuh, no doubting the importance of a tall forward.....but I still feel the importance down back is equally or if not more so imo...again, just my opinion.

..and yes, I did take a very simplistic view of it. Both are much needed.
 
Last edited:
Sep 18, 2009
12,108
5,593
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
You are missing Hanley who does add a lot to the midfield unit.

A Grade
Rockliff
Hanley
Beams
Rich
Christensen - needs to work both ways. Not playing A grade atm.

B Grade - key complimentary players
Redden - out of form but he is an above average mid
Zorko - another out of form but still above average

C Grade - average types who are fringe 22
Bewick
Lester
Robinson

To Be Determined - if they can step up they can make all the difference
Taylor
Aish - if he stays
Robertson
ZOB - just needs to clean up his disposal
Paparone - I think he ends up a running utility

With the Academy kids coming through (and Hanley mark II) I do not think we really need to add too much. Another A grade inside mid would be very handy but I do not think the situation is anywhere near as dire as up forward. They do need a good kick up the rear end though as they have been just coasting so far this year.

Agree...my point was I dont think we have the midfield that is ready to roll as most people (including me until recently) think
 

carnthemlions

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 19, 2012
10,473
10,836
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
San Francisco 49ers, Hertha Berlin
But most of our goals conceded come from our midfield and forward line. Without a couple of reliable targets up forward, confidence going there is low. Indecision leads to turn overs and the ball finds it's way back to our under siege defenders. I'm confident the midfield can steady and excel, but they need that strong forward line to kick to with confidence of getting and keeping the ball down our end. The job for our defenders will suddenly become much easier.
This is why I think spending lots of money on Rance might be a mistake(if we even end up in a position to do so). We could have 6 elite defenders at the moment and they would still be made to look silly a lot of the time.
 
But most of our goals conceded come from our midfield and forward line. Without a couple of reliable targets up forward, confidence going there is low. Indecision leads to turn overs and the ball finds it's way back to our under siege defenders. I'm confident the midfield can steady and excel, but they need that strong forward line to kick to with confidence of getting and keeping the ball down our end. The job for our defenders will suddenly become much easier.

I imagine that if our midfield had been running the ball forward and kicking for Lynch/Brown/Bradshaw (in their day) they would have had a lot more confidence thus less hesitation and better delivery... conversely if we had had Voss/Black/Aker/Lappin/Power (also in their day) kicking to the forward line we had on the weekend would they have looked quite as polished?
 
Sep 18, 2009
12,108
5,593
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I imagine that if our midfield had been running the ball forward and kicking for Lynch/Brown/Bradshaw (in their day) they would have had a lot more confidence thus less hesitation and better delivery... conversely if we had had Voss/Black/Aker/Lappin/Power (also in their day) kicking to the forward line we had on the weekend would they have looked quite as polished?

Big forwards certainly do straighten up a team, but Voss & co would have still moved the ball nicely along to HF. The difference with those players and our current apart from skill & class was they actually all demanded the ball or worked hard to protect the ball carrier. Our team is full of guys who expect others to do the hard work
 

Kevvo

Premium Platinum
Oct 17, 2013
2,568
4,985
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
This is why I think spending lots of money on Rance might be a mistake(if we even end up in a position to do so). We could have 6 elite defenders at the moment and they would still be made to look silly a lot of the time.

There's probably something in this, but I think its bidirectional. Stick another 1-2 high quality defenders back there and maybe our mids and half forwards would be playing a bit more assertively and confidently on opex. It seems a bit of chicken and egg to me. We just need to plug whatever holes we can I guess.
 

lukiuslion

Cancelled
Feb 9, 2010
1,567
1,436
Melbourne
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
yup. Merrett and Goose could both be gone by the end of the season and we would have to rely on Gardiner and Clarke to hold down the defence. We don't have much known depth down there. Rance will complete our defence for the next 6 years easy.

I will never take having a back
Line for granted again. Always just seemed like our back six has been pretty set. We really need rance. I think Merrett for all his shortcomings is a great defender, I can remember him being so bad in his early days, he looked so lost, gotta wonder if we would have persisted with him in this day and age? Goes back to the whole cutting KPP after an average year or two - I am not saying he is the answer, but you have to wonder if Lisle (even if still developing) could be of use as a 25-26 year old tall defender right now. That's why I think we should get Paine on the ground, and give him half a year to have a crack - forward or back, we honestly have nothing to lose.
 

lukiuslion

Cancelled
Feb 9, 2010
1,567
1,436
Melbourne
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
The sickest part of all of this is and I am not resigned to the wooden spoon yet, however.. - I heard a draft guru on SEN, one of those blokes that's waffles on after hours (don't know his name) say for the first time in a decade there is no standout big forward in this years draft?

Does anyone know of any or if this is true? A pattern, hogan or mccartin would usually be well and truely in the frame by now, just our bloody luck.
 

James North

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 18, 2013
9,551
18,016
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Goes back to the whole cutting KPP after an average year or two - I am not saying he is the answer, but you have to wonder if Lisle (even if still developing) could be of use as a 25-26 year old tall defender right now. That's why I think we should get Paine on the ground, and give him half a year to have a crack - forward or back, we honestly have nothing to lose.

Despite his physical size, Lisle wasn't a physical presence. In the seconds, he was still fairly average (he kicked a few bags, but he was on the end of good lead up work mostly). Merrett was always forceful, regardless of the early year brain fades.

Paine is actually out injured, so this isn't an option.

The whole thing is that we've given these non-ideal KPPs a chance over the years and none of them have worked out.

This first step to attracting good players (environment/culture) seems to have been met - we now need to start playing some exciting football to pull some better KPPs.

Rance would be a huge get, but I'm wary of his drive to play for the next 5 years.
 
Back