A bit of an impasse on some SRP topics?

[Jello_B]

For the same reason a discussion on violent races can't be undertaken generally.

And I think you're being disingenuous with relation to my reference towards men being more responsible for violence than Islam is.

So no one is allowed to talk about violence in cultures? Is that a rule?
I'm not interested in your games about being genuine. I'm a new poster here and think I can contribute. My reading of the op was suggestions for making this a more valuable board were being requested and I offered an opinion. I'm neither right or left wing before you try and put me in a basket.

 

[DemonTim]

Lol and here it goes. I didn't take a side. I'm not here to take sides, I come here to read opinion and learn. You can believe what you want about what I have and have not read its up to you.

You did take a side, you negatively spoke about what malifice said. You called his response ridiculous, that's pretty clearly taking a side opposing his point (even though you failed to understand his point)
I think it's fairly clear you're lying about your readings, since this discussion has already happened in this thread, and you misrepresenting what happens in other threads

You claim to want discussion, go for it then. What did you think malifices point was? Are you okay with users making claims they are not willing to back up? Why do you call malifices post ridiculous, yet fail to do it of the user stating things without evidence? For your criticism of this board, do you think it's okay to make statements in a debate and refuse to support them?

 

[DemonTim]

So no one is allowed to talk about violence in cultures? Is that a rule?
I'm not interested in your games about being genuine. I'm a new poster here and think I can contribute. My reading of the op was suggestions for making this a more valuable board were being requested and I offered an opinion. I'm neither right or left wing before you try and put me in a basket.

They're not games. It's now been pointed out to you, why your claim is disingenuous.
You're complaining about taboo topics, yet not actually adding anything apart from vague statements here, it's strange if you actually want discussion

 

[Jello_B]

You did take a side, you negatively spoke about what malifice said. You called his response ridiculous, that's pretty clearly taking a side opposing his point (even though you failed to understand his point)
I think it's fairly clear you're lying about your readings, since this discussion has already happened in this thread, and you misrepresenting what happens in other threads

You claim to want discussion, go for it then. What did you think malifices point was? Are you okay with users making claims they are not willing to back up? Why do you call malifices post ridiculous, yet fail to do it of the user stating things without evidence? For your criticism of this board, do you think it's okay to make statements in a debate and refuse to support them?

You interpreted I took a side that's your fault not mine. You could have asked did I agree the other poster uploaded stupid images and repeated the same posts over and over but you didn't. Again not my problem.
Your other questions:
Malifice has his own point so he can talk for himself. I'm assuming it was that generalising a group is stupid.
Half the people on here make claims they can't back up. It's an opinion so nevertheless so it doesn't bother me that much.
You're not serious in saying that I need to defend a comment that men are the most violent culture.
Yes it's ok to provide an opinion without researching everything behind it and offering extensive evidence. It's an opinion.

 

[Malifice]

So no one is allowed to talk about violence in cultures? Is that a rule?
I'm not interested in your games about being genuine. I'm a new poster here and think I can contribute. My reading of the op was suggestions for making this a more valuable board were being requested and I offered an opinion. I'm neither right or left wing before you try and put me in a basket.

I'm not putting you in any basket mate.

And you can talk about violence within cultures. Saying 'there is a strong problem with violence in the USA' is fine.

Not that Islam/ Muslims are a culture but hey.

If you go back to the thread you're complaining about I actually compared views on violence between different religions (Islam and others) via polls and showed the claim 'Muslims are more violent than other religions' to be false.

The problem lies with the extremists. And I've always said the extremists are fair game.

 

[DemonTim]

You interpreted I took a side that's your fault not mine. You could have asked did I agree the other poster uploaded stupid images and repeated the same posts over and over but you didn't. Again not my problem.
Your other questions:
Malifice has his own point so he can talk for himself. I'm assuming it was that generalising a group is stupid.
Half the people on here make claims they can't back up. It's an opinion so nevertheless so it doesn't bother me that much.
You're not serious in saying that I need to defend a comment that men are the most violent culture.
Yes it's ok to provide an opinion without researching everything behind it and offering extensive evidence. It's an opinion.

you called it ridiculous, and said you wanted to discuss the other posters points. Now you're just being deliberately misleading
Malifices point has been explained, you called it ridiculous, I've asked you what you think he means (since you're still assuming his comment about men being the most violent was genuine, and not acknowledging anything that doesn't fit that) and why it's ridiculous

You're very adamant on posting without actually adding anything

And no, allowing anyone to post opinion without anything to support it is not a good idea (that user wasn't claiming it was an opinion however, he implied it was factually correct). You're going to end with threads going nowhere, people spouting of random s**t, with no support, and shouting it for pages and pages (just like what they do now). That's not debate.

An opinion is only as valid as the persons ability to support it

Also where did i ask you to defend that?

It's strange, you seem to just be parroting a poster from about 10 pages back (who stopped responding when three seperate people explained malifices post to him)

 

[DemonTim]

I'm not putting you in any basket mate.

And you can talk about violence within cultures. Saying 'there is a strong problem with violence in the USA' is fine.

Not that Islam/ Muslims are a culture but hey.

If you go back to the thread you're complaining about I actually compared views on violence between different religions (Islam and others) via polls and showed the claim 'Muslims are more violent than other religions' to be false.

The problem lies with the extremists. And I've always said the extremists are fair game.

I don't see this user changing their mind. If they feel that it's fine for people to make claims in a debate, with nothing to support it, then really any comment made is reasonable.

If we allow that the board will just get worse, it'll just be page after page of users saying something, having it rebutted, saying it again, having it rebutted, saying it again, having it rebutted, shouting that they're right, more shouting etc etc

 

[Jello_B]

I'm not putting you in any basket mate.

And you can talk about violence within cultures. Saying 'there is a strong problem with violence in the USA' is fine.

Not that Islam/ Muslims are a culture but hey.

If you go back to the thread you're complaining about I actually compared views on violence between different religions (Islam and others) via polls and showed the claim 'Muslims are more violent than other religions' to be false.

The problem lies with the extremists. And I've always said the extremists are fair game.

I did read your stats and found them interesting full credit. My comment to those stats was that they were polls, and unfortunately it only takes a few extremists to attack.
If my initial post was taken as targeting you I apologise.

 

[Jello_B]

you called it ridiculous, and said you wanted to discuss the other posters points. Now you're just being deliberately misleading
Malifices point has been explained, you called it ridiculous, I've asked you what you think he means (since you're still assuming his comment about men being the most violent was genuine, and not acknowledging anything that doesn't fit that) and why it's ridiculous

You're very adamant on posting without actually adding anything

And no, allowing anyone to post opinion without anything to support it is not a good idea (that user wasn't claiming it was an opinion however, he implied it was factually correct). You're going to end with threads going nowhere, people spouting of random s**t, with no support, and shouting it for pages and pages (just like what they do now). That's not debate.

An opinion is only as valid as the persons ability to support it

Also where did i ask you to defend that?

It's strange, you seem to just be parroting a poster from about 10 pages back (who stopped responding when three seperate people explained malifices post to him)

I replied what I though Malifice meant.
Not everyone's opinion is random s**t because they don't agree with you, people can have opinions based on life experience as well. They won't necessarily shout it randomly either.
You can ask the mods about my account and I have no idea who you are talking about 10 pages back.
I think you need to calm down.

 

[Jello_B]

I don't see this user changing their mind. If they feel that it's fine for people to make claims in a debate, with nothing to support it, then really any comment made is reasonable.

If we allow that the board will just get worse, it'll just be page after page of users saying something, having it rebutted, saying it again, having it rebutted, saying it again, having it rebutted, shouting that they're right, more shouting etc etc

Haha.

 

[bad setanta]

I don't see this user changing their mind. If they feel that it's fine for people to make claims in a debate, with nothing to support it, then really any comment made is reasonable.

If we allow that the board will just get worse, it'll just be page after page of users saying something, having it rebutted, saying it again, having it rebutted, saying it again, having it rebutted, shouting that they're right, more shouting etc etc

What on earth are you talking about Tim you'd turn a baked dinner cold sometimes, your allowed on the board and your posting has been known to give people hives, let the man speak.

 

[Jello_B]

What on earth are you talking about Tim you'd turn a baked dinner cold sometimes, your allowed on the board and your posting has been known to give people hives, let the man speak.

Thanks mate. An earlier comment that people posting on this board would probably enjoy a beer or an umbrella laden Manhattan (for the gay brides in here ) and a chat was spot on.

 

[DemonTim]

I replied what I though Malifice meant.
Not everyone's opinion is random s**t because they don't agree with you, people can have opinions based on life experience as well. They won't necessarily shout it randomly either.
You can ask the mods about my account and I have no idea who you are talking about 10 pages back.
I think you need to calm down.

Yes after having it explained to you
I don't know too many posters who make large claims and base it on life experience. And regardless the posting youre referring to had no support

I'm calm. I'm not the one getting lost.

What on earth are you talking about Tim you'd turn a baked dinner cold sometimes, your allowed on the board and your posting has been known to give people hives, let the man speak.

Ah good, we've got an entire thread of people complaint about personal attacks instead of actual responses, and you go for that.
The man is "speaking". I'm disagreeing. (I was actually suggesting there wasn't a point arguing with them)
Don't know why I'm responding, you just want to take shots at people

 

[Malifice]

I did read your stats and found them interesting full credit. My comment to those stats was that they were polls, and unfortunately it only takes a few extremists to attack.
If my initial post was taken as targeting you I apologise.

Thats cool mate. I didnt want you to think I was doing the same.

I'f you look at the thread the preceeding few pages it was starting to drift into 'Muslims as a group are the most violent in the world' type stuff being parrotted. I called the poster out on it and posted a direct rebuttal to the argument (with data).

Those kinds of discussions lead to demonization of Muslim peeps. I have no problem with a discussion of extremists and what causes extremism. I do have a problem with people tarring a bunch of people with the same brush. It's like tarring all Catholics as Paedos on account of Paedophile priests and laying some kind of blame on catholics in general.

There is a line there. I just ask that this line be respected.

 

[Chief]

Muslim peeps

 

[Jello_B]

Thats cool mate. I didnt want you to think I was doing the same.

I'f you look at the thread the preceeding few pages it was starting to drift into 'Muslims as a group are the most violent in the world' type stuff being parrotted. I called the poster out on it and posted a direct rebuttal to the argument (with data).

Those kinds of discussions lead to demonization of Muslim peeps. I have no problem with a discussion of extremists and what causes extremism. I do have a problem with people tarring a bunch of people with the same brush. It's like tarring all Catholics as Paedos on account of Paedophile priests and laying some kind of blame on catholics in general.

There is a line there. I just ask that this line be respected.

I've read the entire thread, helps me get to sleep somehow haha.
The upcoming relationship between Islam and the Western world will be interesting no doubt.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Can you talk about Trump types without alluding to them all being ignorant or racist ? The first point was just destroyed by the second. You seem quite happy to lump everyone together that disagrees with you, but hate it when it's done to other groups . Also it's been stated ad nauseam across all threads mentioning Islam by almost every single person arguing against the religion that we don't believe the vast majority of Muslims are pro-terrorist, how many times is this reality ignored for this fantasy you claim as reality.

By saying "One Nation or Trump types" I was not intending to suggest all Trump and One Nation supporters were one thing, I was suggesting that where there is a commonality between the two, those "types" on Big Footy tend to behave in a certain way. I don't "hate" or "lump everyone together that disagrees with" me, so don't project those thoughts onto me. I suspect there's a typo or poor communication in your last sentence but it looks straw man to suggest that people don't believe "the vast majority of Muslims are pro-terrorist" - you aren't even conceding "majority", you've gone with "vast majority". That's a pretty weak argument given it's the basis for you to claim I am in fantasy-land (I think that's what you're saying?).

Now aside from all that, you've missed the very basic element of what I was saying. Israel is political, Jewishness is not. The US is political, being American is not. Being a Trump/One Nation supporter is political. It's perfectly fine to make a blanket suggestion about a Trump supporter given they are, in theory, signing up to his stated beliefs. Whereas people who like to claim that the Koran orders the killing of infidels, are just being ignorant of religion - i.e. billions of Muslims don't kill 'infidels'; other religions also have whacky things written in their holy books which aren't followed. Religion and politicised religion are clearly different things in real life. Even closely following a certain religion is arguably different to a lot of people's idea of faith.

 

[Randomizor]

It's gotten to the point in the God thread where I've 'given-up' trying to post anything of substance....Particularly over the past 6 months.....As I know the usual half-dozen 'God-bothered' will merely see it as an excuse to howl it & me down in a tumult of add-hominem.

These days, I''ll merely cast a Rumi quote, just to watch all the ravenous beasts tear it to shreds....It's that predictive & tiresome.

No work of fiction should be immune to criticism

 

[bad setanta]

Being a Trump/One Nation supporter is political. It's perfectly fine to make a blanket suggestion about a Trump supporter given they are, in theory, signing up to his stated beliefs.

We could easily apply that logic to Islam given it is political in nature and in theory a supporter is signing up to it's stated beliefs. But most of us don't. If you want to throw around blanket statements you can't be upset when they come back.

Religion and politicised religion are clearly different things in real life.

I disagree, especially in the case of Islam. This is not the thread for it so that will be the last time I mention Islam.

 

[bad setanta]

Whereas people who like to claim that the Koran orders the killing of infidels, are just being ignorant of religion

Have you ever considered they might know more about religion than you do?

 

[FPPF]

So no one is allowed to talk about violence in cultures? Is that a rule?
I'm not interested in your games about being genuine. I'm a new poster here and think I can contribute. My reading of the op was suggestions for making this a more valuable board were being requested and I offered an opinion. I'm neither right or left wing before you try and put me in a basket.

You've disagreed with the clique it's too late you're already on their list of far wing posters.
Posting in here these days basically has to be done in accordance with their ideological beliefs and agenda.
Go against that and see what happens. Or just read people's posts if they haven't been deleted yet and get a feel for what you're in for if you have a differing opinion or view to the clique.

 

[DemonTim]

You've disagreed with the clique it's too late you're already on their list of far wing posters.
Posting in here these days basically has to be done in accordance with their ideological beliefs and agenda.
Go against that and see what happens. Or just read people's posts if they haven't been deleted yet and get a feel for what you're in for if you have a differing opinion or view to the clique.

Sigh. Until you have an argument other than "anyone else banned deserved it, I was only banned because I disagreed" stop posting
You're adding nothing. You're throwing a tantrum because you were banned. Get over it. It's incredibly sad that 5 days off an Internet forum has gotten to you so much. Maybe go outside.

 

[CM86]

You're one of the more balanced of the lot but if you can't see that posters aren't labelled negatively for raising an unsavoury point about Islam, not agreeing with gay marriage, or other, then this board will be a one sided debate. I'm new here and I shake my head at the criticism of those with a different point of view.
Isn't this an opinion board for discussion. How can anything be discussed when some topics and opinions are taboo.

Thanks, but I'm not normally. Just trying a new hat.

And I do agree that it does happen, as I've done it myself plenty of times.
It's hard for me not to just lump you into the rightwing group.
My thinking is,
I've not seen you much, and now you're posting a lot in SRP.
You're not just agreeing with my point of view.
If you're not with me, you're against me.

All of those points are ridiculous, and baseless.
It's due to ongoing resurgence of alias accounts, that I've started to just assume everyone is an alias. And it's also mostly due to those accounts that I also assume everyone has an agenda.

So I had to stop and reevaluate, because I'm trying to be less of s**t poster.

And yeah, I don't think you're an alias or running with an agenda. It's my preconceived notions and perceptions that form a story around you, regardless of what your actual position is.


So back to your point, I agree absolutely that some posters are hounded down for simply sharing an opinion and looking for a discussion. I've been a big push behind that.
But, it doesn't justify people who are out and out trolling, or just pushing fairly repugnant views.

For example, in the gay marriage thread, there is currently an open discussion going on between a poster who has an unpopular view of gay marriage, and other posters. And it's pretty good.
But there is also a poster in there who isn't looking for a discussion.
Have a look https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...-is-on-its-way.1091155/page-101#post-46158383
It's posters like that one, that help cause the problem.


I think it's important for us to distinguish the difference between someone trying to engage in conversation, and someone just outright spewing bullshit.

It's the blurry line that makes things more difficult. And it's the ones with an agenda that want to blur that line as much as possible.

 

[FPPF]

I replied what I though Malifice meant.
Not everyone's opinion is random s**t because they don't agree with you, people can have opinions based on life experience as well. They won't necessarily shout it randomly either.
You can ask the mods about my account and I have no idea who you are talking about 10 pages back.
I think you need to calm down.

He probably thinks you and me are the same person lol

 

[FPPF]

Thanks, but I'm not normally. Just trying a new hat.

And I do agree that it does happen, as I've done it myself plenty of times.
It's hard for me not to just lump you into the rightwing group.
My thinking is,
I've not seen you much, and now you're posting a lot in SRP.
You're not just agreeing with my point of view.
If you're not with me, you're against me.

All of those points are ridiculous, and baseless.
It's due to ongoing resurgence of alias accounts, that I've started to just assume everyone is an alias. And it's also mostly due to those accounts that I also assume everyone has an agenda.

So I had to stop and reevaluate, because I'm trying to be less of s**t poster.

And yeah, I don't think you're an alias or running with an agenda. It's my preconceived notions and perceptions that form a story around you, regardless of what your actual position is.


So back to your point, I agree absolutely that some posters are hounded down for simply sharing an opinion and looking for a discussion. I've been a big push behind that.
But, it doesn't justify people who are out and out trolling, or just pushing fairly repugnant views.

For example, in the gay marriage thread, there is currently an open discussion going on between a poster who has an unpopular view of gay marriage, and other posters. And it's pretty good.
But there is also a poster in there who isn't looking for a discussion.
Have a look https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...-is-on-its-way.1091155/page-101#post-46158383
It's posters like that one, that help cause the problem.


I think it's important for us to distinguish the difference between someone trying to engage in conversation, and someone just outright spewing bullshit.

It's the blurry line that makes things more difficult. And it's the ones with an agenda that want to blur that line as much as possible.

I think most people would simply be sharing their views or opinions maybe not necessarily looking for a full blown discussion.
I think a big part of how things go from there is a certain group of posters otherwise referred to as the clique who show up and start hounding that person or persons, because they've made an assumption or what's been posted isn't in line with their political ideological agenda on here.

What happens is they push and provoke and bait. Some people just walk away and are basically run out of the SRP forum by this gang.
Other people put up with it for a while trying to put their points across to no avail.
Others eventually have enough of their bullshit and go off at them and get in trouble. Hence why we say there's mod bias. Because very little to nothing is done about these people who provoke these reactions from people.

Of course as you said there's others who don't want a debate and just want to s**t stir by posting something controversial.

If people are always being provoked and baited when they post, by the same gang, why would they be anything but hostile in return?
Why wouldn't their posts start to reflect the hostility being shown to them to begin with, from the get go instead?

It's all very easy to say that right wing posters or people being labelled as right wing of far right wing are more likely to break the rules, as easy as it is to ignore what's going on. Not saying you said that btw.

what's been happening in this thread is exactly what people are saying is going on in srp, as I described above.