Rumour A Collingwood player is to become the first openly gay AFL player?

[TradeDraft]

For what it's worth the rumour has been doing the rounds for quite a while now, originated from people in his school circles a couple years back, however I wouldn't expect an announcement any time soon (why overshadow finals?)

Sounds like you know more then Us

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I agree in principle, but in practice it matters for a whole lot of reasons.

Its wonderful in a way seeing responses like this. And please don't get me wrong, whether or not I agree with you on other things, I do respect you and I respect your approach here.

It's just when I hear this sort of statement it kind of irks me a bit. I agree, sexual preference shouldn't be news nor anyone else problem. But my experience is that it is.

For those of us who aren't straight, it's not that simple. My experience of life and football tends to be defined to an unhealthy extent by the people who do have a problem. I made the mistake of being open about being Bi reasonably early in life. Given my situation in life I didn't think self preservation mattered and I was tired of hiding. I don't think I can explain adequately what it's like to deal with the ordinary everyday s**t that comes from it. I've lost a foster placement, a football club, and a workplace, for example, thanks to it, leaving aside the reality of random violence for having the temerity to hold a boyfriend's hand. It's not as if I'm one of these people marching around with rainbow badges and "shoving it down my throat" as the usual apologists for bigotry say as excuse for their casual shitheaddness. I'm just trying to live and be myself.

So does it matter if an AFL footballer comes out? You bet it does. So when the next meathead dickwad tries to tell me that "**** can't play football", I have something to come back with. You have no idea how much it would have meant when I was back in school, just knowing I wasn't so ******* alone.

And do you know why it matters at all? Because I fight these battles alone. Because when two members of my footy club decide upon knowing that I have a boyfriend that they can't stand having me in the same changing room, I fight that alone. And all the reasonable, enlightened, supportive members of my team say precisely zero. Oh, they tell me privately how they think it's terrible and how my sexuality is none of their business and they admire my courage and blah blah blah. But would I mind changing in my car and yeah don't bring my boyfriend to any club functions, we really don't want to make a fuss do we?

So in the absence of the reasonable, enlightened, supportive ones being willing to stand up and be counted when the time comes, I fight these battles alone, and the more ammunition I have the better. The more signals we get saying this is ok the better. The more times we show by word and deed that the people with a problem are the problem, the better. Because my experience is when push comes to shove, the culture still has a long way to go and in the end I'm on my own.

I always liked your posts and applaud your humour and character. I haven't posted much in recent months but am an avid reader. I enjoy your contributions as much as anyone on the forum. You are like a breath of fresh air, whatever the perspective you take upon life. you. Unfortunately the Korean girl seems to have missed an opportunity for a spot of entertainment. You'd be a fun companion.

 

[THATSGOLD]

David Hille the former Bomber is gay, that's well known.

 

[Vicky Park]

Throwing names around, and making assumptions based on God only knows what, is not helping this thread. Surely this is more about us maturing as a society, and the AFL having a tolerant and accepting culture?

We don't need salacious details about players' lives, leading to irrelevant conclusions.

 

[Anzacday]

Throwing names around, and making assumptions based on God only knows what, is not helping this thread. Surely this is more about us maturing as a society, and the AFL having a tolerant and accepting culture?

We don't need salacious details about players' lives, leading to irrelevant conclusions.

Maybe it's time to close the thread?

 

[tenderwarrior]

That whole story makes no sense. If a gay guy was looking for a hook up, they'd look at Grindr, not Tinder.

I assume somebody could use both apps, in which case your reasoning makes no sense.

 

[tenderwarrior]

I would consider myself an expert on gays (actually just got of the phone with one of my best mates in Sydney who has twin girls with his partner) as my wife and I know many gay people.

I know a lot of women. I wish that automatically meant I was an expert on them. Alas..

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Throwing names around, and making assumptions based on God only knows what, is not helping this thread. Surely this is more about us maturing as a society, and the AFL having a tolerant and accepting culture?

We don't need salacious details about players' lives, leading to irrelevant conclusions.

I'm quite dissapointing that in this day and age, there is this need to play guessing games, throwing names about etc. why can't people here just let it be, and allow our players, any players, anyone actually, to decide for themselves to reveal whatever they wish about their private lives.
It's kind of dissapointing and a tad rude in my view this naming business.
(Just felt I needed to say that.)

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I'm quite dissapointing that in this day and age, there is this need to play guessing games, throwing names about etc. why can't people here just let it be, and allow our players, any players, anyone actually, to decide for themselves to reveal whatever they wish about their private lives.
It's kind of dissapointing and a tad rude in my view this naming business.
(Just felt I needed to say that.)

And to show how ludicrous it is, if it is so important to name a person's sexual preference, why is it just restricted to naming those that may be gay?

 

[Quicky]

Maybe it's time to close the thread?

There is some pretty unsavoury s**t in this thread, but some really good things too. I would hate to miss out on those good things for the sake of a few ignorant and offensive comments. Perhaps just report the bullshit posts and let them get moderated.

 

[legendstatus]

A past Brisbane/Fitzroy & Collingwood player is/was gay (not that there is anything wrong with that) a high profile Jurno I know very well also confirms it.

PM me if you want the name (no big deal though)

 

[TW Sherrin]

Throwing names around, and making assumptions based on God only knows what, is not helping this thread. Surely this is more about us maturing as a society, and the AFL having a tolerant and accepting culture?

We don't need salacious details about players' lives, leading to irrelevant conclusions.

everyone says no one cares and yet this thread rattles along at a good pace.

 

[Kilmo]

And to show how ludicrous it is, if it is so important to name a person's sexual preference, why is it just restricted to naming those that may be gay?

That's not really the point.

It's not about needing to know who is gay, or what every player likes to do in the bedroom. I couldn't care less what any of them do.

It's about the fact that no player ever in the history of the AFL has felt comfortable enough in their job to not have to pretend to be straight to the public and media. Not that they should, or need to - just that they should be able to, and they obviously feel that they aren't. It has been mentioned before in this thread that some gay players fear supporter backlash and violence if they were openly gay. It shows that it is not a healthy environment.

If you are looking for an analogy to show the absurdity of the situation, I am not sure yours is the right one, as it is not about the public needing to be told that a gay player is gay. Instead, imagine a situation where players in a sport had to pretend to be gay just to fit in - that would be absurd. Pretending to be something you're not just to go about your job at the very least highlights systemic workplace bullying.

But I agree that everyone trying to guess who it is is not being particularly constructive.

 

[Helfarch]

That's not really the point.

It's not about needing to know who is gay, or what every player likes to do in the bedroom. I couldn't care less what any of them do.

It's about the fact that no player ever in the history of the AFL has felt comfortable enough in their job to not have to pretend to be straight to the public and media. Not that they should, or need to - just that they should be able to, and they obviously feel that they aren't. It has been mentioned before in this thread that some gay players fear supporter backlash and violence if they were openly gay. It shows that it is not a healthy environment.

If you are looking for an analogy to show the absurdity of the situation, I am not sure yours is the right one, as it is not about the public needing to be told that a gay player is gay. Instead, imagine a situation where players in a sport had to pretend to be gay just to fit in - that would be absurd. Pretending to be something you're not just to go about your job at the very least highlights systemic workplace bullying.

But I agree that everyone trying to guess who it is is not being particularly constructive.

The are an enormous amount of people that pretend to be something they are not at work everyday.

Pretend to be competent that is.

 

[Kilmo]

The are an enormous amount of people that pretend to be something they are not at work everyday.

Pretend to be competent that is.

I don't even pretend anymore

 

[Magpie Girl]

That's not really the point.

It's not about needing to know who is gay, or what every player likes to do in the bedroom. I couldn't care less what any of them do.

It's about the fact that no player ever in the history of the AFL has felt comfortable enough in their job to not have to pretend to be straight to the public and media. Not that they should, or need to - just that they should be able to, and they obviously feel that they aren't. It has been mentioned before in this thread that some gay players fear supporter backlash and violence if they were openly gay. It shows that it is not a healthy environment.

If you are looking for an analogy to show the absurdity of the situation, I am not sure yours is the right one, as it is not about the public needing to be told that a gay player is gay. Instead, imagine a situation where players in a sport had to pretend to be gay just to fit in - that would be absurd. Pretending to be something you're not just to go about your job at the very least highlights systemic workplace bullying.

But I agree that everyone trying to guess who it is is not being particularly constructive.

Why does anyone have to pretend anything?
They're sportsmen, and their sexuality is irrelevant

 

[Kilmo]

Why does anyone have to pretend anything?
They're sportsmen, and their sexuality is irrelevant

That's the exact question we should be asking. Why do they have to pretend, if it is irrelevant?

The fact is that they do, and that not one AFL player has ever come out openly to the media - why? Because of systemic, institutionalised and traditional homophobia in the sport, both with supporters and within the clubs.

These calls for "it's irrelevant so why talk about it" are similar to the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy of the US Army. Sure, we shouldn't care or ask, but there shouldn't be a "Don't Tell" rule.

 

[Magpie Girl]

That's the exact question we should be asking. Why do they have to pretend, if it is irrelevant?

The fact is that they do, and that not one AFL player has ever come out openly to the media - why? Because of systemic, institutionalised and traditional homophobia in the sport, both with supporters and within the clubs.

Maybe they're not pretending.
Perhaps they're just being private instead

 

[Kilmo]

Maybe they're not pretending.
Perhaps they're just being private instead

Perhaps. But officially, there has never been an AFL player, despite this being clearly not the case. It has been hidden because gay AFL players don't feel comfortable with people knowing that they are gay. Read the Ian Thorpe story a couple of pages back to see why this is important to gay sportsmen who feel that they need to hide who they are.

 

[Kilmo]

Maybe they're not pretending.
Perhaps they're just being private instead

Also, why do you think no AFL player has ever brought their boyfriend along to a club function or Brownlow night? As a 'WAG'? (Can't bring their husband because gay marriage is not yet legalised in our backward country)

There is a difference between being private as in not yelling it out in the streets, and being private as in having to hide what is a significant aspect of your life from others for fear of what they might think.

 

[Ketchup]

I think joffa is the equivalent to mark Robinson. Where is all the outrage and innuendo questioning his integrity? What if this said player hasn't told their parents or the playing list but can tell a cheer squad member, and the entire playing list has had to answer questions from family and friends all week because of a statement that could be complete guess work.

Expect a flat performance this week and the playing group to ban joffa.

 

[CFC2010]

Perhaps. But officially, there has never been an AFL player, despite this being clearly not the case. It has been hidden because gay AFL players don't feel comfortable with people knowing that they are gay. Read the Ian Thorpe story a couple of pages back to see why this is important to gay sportsmen who feel that they need to hide who they are.

A step in the right direction.............

AFL
Nicky Winmar making a proud stand for his gay son, Tynan

MARK ROBINSON, Herald Sun
August 10, 2016 8:30pm
premium_iconSubscriber only

NICKY Winmar gazed across Victoria Park and started jumbling the words to Harry Chapin’s enduring song Cat’s In The Cradle.

For 20-odd years, the former St Kilda and All-Australian player wasn’t in the life of his son Tynan.

But now that they have reconnected, Winmar wants to talk to Tynan — and Tynan often can’t find the time.

“It’s amazing to look at him, the mature man he is now,” Winmar said.

“We have a great bond. We always try to talk on phone, but it’s always me calling him.

“He’s sort of telling me now, you know, ‘The cat’s in the cradle and silver spoon, little boy blue and the man in the moon ... when you coming home, dad?’.

“You hear that song now and then and you do drop a tear thinking about those words, about seeing him again, you know — ‘We’ll get together soon, dad’.’’

Tynan, 28, was standing 30m away from the exact spot where, in 1993, his father raised his St Kilda jumper and famously pointed at his black skin.

Herald Sun photographer Wayne Ludbey was with him ... and it just happens that it was Ludbey who took that iconic photo all those years ago.

media_cameraNicky Winmar and his son Tynan at Victoria Park, Collingwood. Picture: Wayne Ludbey
But this wasn’t about making a stand against racism.

It was about making a stand for Tynan, who is gay, and for all gay people around Australia.

I have a good relationship with mum, finally have a good relationship with my dad, finally have a good relationship with myself. I finally got to the stage where I love myself.

- Tynan Winmar

“I’m proud I can do this for him, and his friends and others out there — if you’re gay, be proud of who you are,’’ Winmar said this week.

“I was proud to stand up for indigenous people in sport and now it’s time to stand up for these guys. Life is too short.”

Tynan hadn’t spoken to his dad for 10 years and then, two years ago, decided to come out to him.

He called him in Western Australia and broke the news.

He’d told his mum Kelly about eight years ago, but it was different for dad.

“I said to mum, ‘That’s who I am and I’m finally comfortable to say that’,” Tynan said.

“She got upset, but she wasn’t upset for the wrong reason.

“She wasn’t upset that I was gay — she loves me no matter what — but she was more concerned about me being picked on and treated differently for it, which is every mother’s concern.

“Dad, I was more nervous about because on top of being estranged and not having the closest relationship growing up, but also being indigenous and the calibre of athlete he was, and that it was a bit taboo being gay. Well, I felt it was.

“I wasn’t ashamed; more nervous. I told him, ‘I’m gay, I’m happy’ and he embraced it.

“And I think at that stage he was more than happy to have me in his life again.”

Tynan shared his story in support of Saturday night’s Pride Game between St Kilda and Sydney at Etihad Stadium.

His story is about the son of an AFL superstar and the expectation that came with that.

A story about a boy who struggled with his identity and who kept secrets. And it’s a story about a man who’s now afraid of nothing.

media_cameraPart of Tynan’s rainbow scarf. Picture: Wayne Ludbey
Tynan’s parents split up when he was eight. He lived in Ballarat with mum and dad went “drifting”.

“I had an idea I might’ve been gay when I was about 14 or 15 in high school,” Tynan said.

It was a shock when he told me. I took a short breath but, no matter what, he’s still my boy and I’m just proud he’s grown into being a great young man.

- Nicky Winmar

He chose not to follow in his father’s footsteps and play football, preferring basketball.

It always seemed he was answering the same question: “You’re Nicky Winmar’s son, why aren’t playing footy?”

“It was a struggle to try keep this secret amongst a community who know who you are and just trying to be comfortable with yourself,” he said.

“I became more comfortable after high school. After I came out, you just feel this weight is off your shoulders. You become a happy person, you can be yourself.

“It’s hard to explain because until you’re in that situation, where you have to keep a secret from someone you know for your whole life, it’s really rewarding.”

The torment is gone, but not forgotten.

“There’s been tears, definitely,” Tynan said.

“I tried to keep a brave face, but there’s plenty of times when I’ve fallen apart. But what I’ve been proud about myself is that I haven’t let anyone make feel bad for being gay.”

media_cameraNicky Winmar’s iconic stance at Victoria Park in 1993. Picture: Wayne Ludbey
If there’s residue from not having a relationship with his father, Tynan does not share it.

This is a time of enlightenment and strength and, anyway, his dad knows he’s not a contender for father of the year.

It was only after Winmar had a heart attack in September, 2012, that Tynan began the process of re-connecting.

“He definitely regrets what happened in the past, he knows that, he knows he’s not perfect, but he’s making an effort,” Tynan said.

“I love him. For a long time I didn’t feel like it, but in the past couple of years I feel our relationship is as strong as it’s ever been.

“I don’t even think it’s about my sexuality. I know it’s big part of it, but he’s just happy to have a son in his life again.”

Two minority groups who are discriminated against are indigenous and gay — and Tynan accepts he will be a double-barrelled target for bigots, dickheads and the disillusioned.

He admits that to come out today, in the face of fear of that backlash, was a long-time “internal struggle”.

“At the end of the day, I have an opportunity to tell my story, be a face, be a voice, and if I help one person come to terms with their own internal struggle, it’s for the right reasons,” he said.

“There’s plenty of people who have this secret. I have met people who were married, had children and it wasn’t until their late 50s when they decided to come out.

media_cameraNicky Winmar embraces son Tynan at Victoria Park. Picture: Wayne Ludbey
“You can talk to people about it but can’t tell them how to do it.

“I’m happy and it’s taken me a long time to get that stage.

“I have a good relationship with mum, finally have a good relationship with my dad, finally have a good relationship with myself. I finally got to the stage where I love myself.”

It’s apparent that confidence, self-worth and support override all hatred.

“As soon as you tell someone you’re gay, there’s an embrace and it gives you the opportunity to embrace yourself, because you have so much internal hatred of yourself,” he said.

“No one wants to be different. Everyone just wants to fit in. And there’s nothing wrong with being gay and a lot of people do struggle with the fact they are and they’d prefer not to be. But you get to a stage where you say, ‘This is who I am’.”

The AFL, he said, can play a huge role in the acceptance of gay people.

“This is a perfect platform,” he said.

“There is such a persona of blokey-blokey and masculinity involved in the AFL and it goes to show if the AFL is on board, you are accepted anywhere. You shouldn’t be ashamed. More and more stories shared like this, the more it becomes discussed and becomes acceptable.

“Just like that iconic photo taken here of dad, it created a conversation around racism in sport and it’s an iconic moment in Australian sporting history.”

Winmar was happy to be back in the AFL and this time it’s because of his son.

Next year, it will be 30 years since he arrived at St Kilda and, as part of the Pride Game, he will speak at the official function on Saturday night.

“This is a different story and we have to look after the young fellas these days,’’ Winmar said.

“It’s 2016, not the 1960s and ’70s when they used to hide and be scared of what they are and who they are.’’

Still, when Tynan called he was stunned with the revelation.

“It was a shock when he told me,” Winmar said.

“I took a short breath but, no matter what, he’s still my boy and I’m just proud he’s grown into being a great young man.

“You know, I’ve got other family members who are gay and it’s sad they weren’t treated like they are today.

“One of my cousins died being what he was, being gay. He walked in front of a bus. You just have to support and respect them.”

On this day, however, as Winmar cast an eye over Victoria Park, he couldn’t stop smiling.

“I love him to pieces,” he said. “I still think of him every now and then as a baby, wondering how and what he would turn out to be.

“I wish he played footy but, as I said, I wasn’t around and I didn’t help as much as I should have. But just to see him now, I’m just glad I’m still here to witness what he is doing.

“I’m so proud.”

HOMOPHOBIA IN SPORT

* 87 per cent of young gay Australians who play sport feel forced to hide their sexuality.

* 57 per cent of participants think adult sport is not a safe place for openly lesbian, gay and bisexual (LGB) people.

* 80 per cent of all participants and 82 per cent of LGB participants say they have witnessed or experienced homophobia in sport.

* 78% of participants believe an openly LGB person would not be very safe as a spectator at a sporting event.

* LGB Australians have up to 14 times higher rates of suicide attempts than heterosexuals.

* LGB and transgender people are three times more likely to experience depression.

* 60 per cent of LGBT young people say they experienced verbal abuse because of their sexuality, while 18 per cent reported physical abuse.

Sources: BeyondBlue; “Out on the fields” study into LGB people in team sport; Australian Huamn Rights Commission

 

[jmac70]

David Hille the former Bomber is gay, that's well known.

Why even post that?

 

[The Dawes]

what I find a little odd is that no former player has ever come out.

You would think that at least one player who finished his career 10, 20 or 30 years ago would have come out publicly by now.

Perhaps that illustrates how ingrained it is.

 

[TW Sherrin]

I think joffa is the equivalent to mark Robinson. Where is all the outrage and innuendo questioning his integrity? What if this said player hasn't told their parents or the playing list but can tell a cheer squad member, and the entire playing list has had to answer questions from family and friends all week because of a statement that could be complete guess work.

Expect a flat performance this week and the playing group to ban joffa.

he did last friday and what happened that night?