Opinion A different perspective

[ad victoriam]

Yes it does.

Because you and the other apologists like to stifle the debate. You might want to sit back and wait, fine, but for those that don’t, keep your lecturing to yourself.

But if you truly believe there are issues and then prefer to sit back and shut us up, well then, what does that make you?

The Biggest group that stifle any debate is the more Negative supporter. they are always the first to attack the user and will stray away from the debate.
But read this before you reply.
In this discussion ie Negative vs apologist ( not the terms I would use)
Negatives have a habit of conducting witch hunts. rightly or wrongly, And Witch hunts have a habit of burning the inconcent along with the guilty, They also change the direction or focus away from the true Fix, And they don't improve the situation.
Apologist has a habit of seeing the good before the bad, And slow to act at times.
both are wrong and both are right. There is also a group between,
But Most on social media are Wouldhaves, Shouldhaves. And when ask to do something always seem to find a reason not too, ie waste of time, Club will not act, we have no say, your full of shit, etc
I get classed as an Aploigist all the time on BF, yet I have a long history of chats with the club like you do. and I ask for change asking for direction,
But on BF ask some of the negatives to get off there butts and do something and they find a reason to attack. Just watch the replies to this.

SO I will put this to every one of you negatives if this review goes the wrong way
Will you be front and centre at the AGM and demand answers, ie Call on our Member Elect to meet earlier and discuss the direction we need to push.
Will you be part of the 3500 members needed to call a special general meeting and ask for change. then front up.

Again negatives and Apologist are not there terms I would use.

 

[John Who]

The Biggest group that stifle any debate is the more Negative supporter. they are always the first to attack the user and will stray away from the debate.
But read this before you reply.
In this discussion ie Negative vs apologist ( not the terms I would use)
Negatives have a habit of conducting witch hunts. rightly or wrongly, And Witch hunts have a habit of burning the inconcent along with the guilty, They also change the direction or focus away from the true Fix, And they don't improve the situation.
Apologist has a habit of seeing the good before the bad, And slow to act at times.
both are wrong and both are right. There is also a group between,
But Most on social media are Wouldhaves, Shouldhaves. And when ask to do something always seem to find a reason not too, ie waste of time, Club will not act, we have no say, your full of s**t, etc
I get classed as an Aploigist all the time on BF, yet I have a long history of chats with the club like you do. and I ask for change asking for direction,
But on BF ask some of the negatives to get off there butts and do something and they find a reason to attack. Just watch the replies to this.

SO I will put this to every one of you negatives if this review goes the wrong way
Will you be front and centre at the AGM and demand answers, ie Call on our Member Elect to meet earlier and discuss the direction we need to push.
Will you be part of the 3500 members needed to call a special general meeting and ask for change. then front up.

Again negatives and Apologist are not there terms I would use.

I feel the “club apologists” are the ones genuinely seeking the truth. I’ve yet to see anyone on this forum “apologising” for the club and lay claims nothing is going bad at the club.

What I see more is actually people “defending” the club on unsubstantiated claims when there is a clear agenda to attack the club. And then these “defenders” are seen on BF as delusional and/or idiotic.

I think as a fan, we all have the right to love or hate when things go good/bad. But by the same token, if others are bashing on the club (unfairly) then fans need to unite and bash back those asses.

 

[John Who]

I say 'stuck' because I didn't raise or want to discuss anything about the claims the media had made about the camp. I didn't raise the Richmond song, or the talking stick, or the tied to trees stuff. As I said, I don't know what happened there (although I did point out that the way the club handled it in the media was poor).
I wanted to talk about decision making, and having people wth the ability to make good decisions in the right positions. My inference was that Burton has a track record of poor decision making and so should not be in the role he has.
I thought the decision to hold a mental training camp that challenged the players mental strength at that time was a poor one - particularly when looking at the history of the group. Using a company poorly qualified to do so was neglectful. That was what I wanted to discuss. Fagan instead wanted to keep discussing the media reporting of the camp. I understand why he wanted to do that given the media beating the club was copping at the time, but it was something he was stuck on and not something I was referring to.

I think a lot of people on here seem to think mental strengthening is the same as psychological therapy. The latter would be needed (by psychologists) and the former is done in various formats.

Psychologists aren’t guaranteed to lift a team to a premiership because if it was that simple, the Suns would simply have paid the best psychologist available during their preseason and then away they go! Alas, they’ve remained pretty crap no matter what they’ve tried so far in their preseasons.

 

[Big Gazoongas]

I feel the “club apologists” are the ones genuinely seeking the truth. I’ve yet to see anyone on this forum “apologising” for the club and lay claims nothing is going bad at the club.

What I see more is actually people “defending” the club on unsubstantiated claims when there is a clear agenda to attack the club. And then these “defenders” are seen on BF as delusional and/or idiotic.

I think as a fan, we all have the right to love or hate when things go good/bad. But by the same token, if others are bashing on the club (unfairly) then fans need to unite and bash back those asses.

Talking about asses. The "apologists" need to kiss the asses of the "negatives" because there would be no external review of the football department.

Its the public pressure that has forced this, certainly not by the apologists gobbling up the puke the AFC feeds them.

 

[jaytex]

I feel the “club apologists” are the ones genuinely seeking the truth. I’ve yet to see anyone on this forum “apologising” for the club and lay claims nothing is going bad at the club.

What I see more is actually people “defending” the club on unsubstantiated claims when there is a clear agenda to attack the club. And then these “defenders” are seen on BF as delusional and/or idiotic.

I think as a fan, we all have the right to love or hate when things go good/bad. But by the same token, if others are bashing on the club (unfairly) then fans need to unite and bash back those asses.

OK i'll bite...

with a search no more than five posts deep, we come across this gem from none other than John Who:

"I’d throw in a guess there might be hesitation from other coaches jumping across to the Crows not just from the club culture alone, but also fan’s expectation of us making Finals as a regular theme. Also, we’re in a unique position as a club for the fact we missed out on top early picks due to the Tippetgate PLUS we don’t have any genuine top 3 pick superstars. Which means as a Finals contending team, we have to work that bit harder to compete (against clubs with much more top 10 draft selections), and feel more wrath from fans if we don’t make it. It’s a recipe for more potential mental burden on the coaches if things don’t go so well (eg. like the last 2 seasons)."


in those four verbose sentences, we have both:

- an insinuation that we should blame fans expectations over club culture

and

- a nod to "Tippetgate" as a reason for missing early draft picks and hampering our value proposition to prospective coaches, as if "Tippetgate" was some kind of unavoidable catastrophe like Hurricane Katrina as opposed to something done TO our club by the people entrusted with the governance and management of said club, as a direct result of the incompetence of said people, who are still in charge due to their inability to take responsibility for said incompetence and mismanagement and poor governance.

now, i can see the apologist here loud and clear, but where's the "genuine truth seeking" in that one, John?
WHY do we now have to work that bit harder to compete against clubs with many more top 10 draft selections?
c'mon, have a think, you'll get there. (and here's a hint: none of the reasons are "unsubstantiated")

 

[jenny61_99]

Talking about asses. The "apologists" need to kiss the asses of the "negatives" because there would be no external review of the football department.

Its the public pressure that has forced this, certainly not by the apologists gobbling up the puke the AFC feeds them.

You are again making the assumptions that we didn't also want the external review??? Yet we are on record... often... that we do want it. You generalise far too much and actually don't READ what we write.

 

[subaru]

Cue for Subaru to chime in and tell the so called "bed wetters" there is no evidence of anything happening.

Here I am
Feel free to tell me what did happen.
Knock yourself out.
What do you know that 2 internal and one AFL investigations, don’t know.

I don’t know what happened so I don’t make shit up

I do know this though....

 

[subaru]

The Biggest group that stifle any debate is the more Negative supporter. they are always the first to attack the user and will stray away from the debate.
But read this before you reply.
In this discussion ie Negative vs apologist ( not the terms I would use)
Negatives have a habit of conducting witch hunts. rightly or wrongly, And Witch hunts have a habit of burning the inconcent along with the guilty, They also change the direction or focus away from the true Fix, And they don't improve the situation.
Apologist has a habit of seeing the good before the bad, And slow to act at times.
both are wrong and both are right. There is also a group between,
But Most on social media are Wouldhaves, Shouldhaves. And when ask to do something always seem to find a reason not too, ie waste of time, Club will not act, we have no say, your full of s**t, etc
I get classed as an Aploigist all the time on BF, yet I have a long history of chats with the club like you do. and I ask for change asking for direction,
But on BF ask some of the negatives to get off there butts and do something and they find a reason to attack. Just watch the replies to this.

SO I will put this to every one of you negatives if this review goes the wrong way
Will you be front and centre at the AGM and demand answers, ie Call on our Member Elect to meet earlier and discuss the direction we need to push.
Will you be part of the 3500 members needed to call a special general meeting and ask for change. then front up.

Again negatives and Apologist are not there terms I would use.

Excellent post

And i will be front and square if Burton and Hart are still there after the review

Hart because he clearly was out of his depth coping and structuring our forwards to deal with 6-6-6
And Burton because he’s also responsible for wasting last year with hamstrings and this year our second half fade outs

Now they may both, as people not be total dIcks but I would have a total dIck in charge if he knew what he was doing

 

[Big Gazoongas]

Here I am
Feel free to tell me what did happen.
Knock yourself out.
What do you know that 2 internal and one AFL investigations, don’t know.

I don’t know what happened so I don’t make s**t up

I do know this though....
View attachment 747641

Remember when you made the comment about being childish?

I'll ask you a second time, Why don't you tell us why you lost the use of your like button.

 

[skam85]

Remember when you made the comment about being childish?

I'll ask you a second time, Why don't you tell us why you lost the use of your like button.

Big Bang Theory GIF suggests the level we're dealing with here

 

[subaru]

Remember when you made the comment about being childish?

I'll ask you a second time, Why don't you tell us why you lost the use of your like button.

After 46000 posts I really don’t care / it’s funny !
Quoting and mentioning me .....
Why do you care so much ?
Now ....
Can you try to answer my question that is actually AFC related ? What happened on the camp?
Or maybe the diversion to me and my like button, is because you can’t.

Rent free - again

 

[subaru]

Big Bang Theory GIF suggests the level we're dealing with here

And yet you knew it was from Big Bang....

 

[Big Gazoongas]

After 46000 posts I really don’t care / it’s funny !
Quoting and mentioning me .....
Why do you care so much ?
Now ....
Can you try to answer my question that is actually AFC related ? What happened on the camp?
Or maybe the diversion to me and my like button, is because you can’t.

Rent free - again

Yes you do care, that's why you won't answer..........this is where your hypocrisy comes into play.
You know you've been called out, but keep dodging and weaving.

 

[jenny61_99]

So, to get back on topic.....

 

[skam85]

Yes you do care, that's why you won't answer..........this is where your hypocrisy comes into play.
You know you've been called out, but keep dodging and weaving.

Over 10 posts a day for the past 12 years.... that can't be healthy

 

[subaru]

Yes you do care, that's why you won't answer..........this is where your hypocrisy comes into play.
You know you've been called out, but keep dodging and weaving.

Hahahahaha

Nah
I’ve dodged nothing

You on the other hand .....
What happened on the camp ?

 

[subaru]

So, to get back on topic.....

I agree Jen

It would be even better if we can stick to facts

Another delay re the coaching panel .....does anyone have first hand info why ?

 

[jenny61_99]

I agree Jen

It would be even better if we can stick to facts

Another delay re the coaching panel .....

Where did that come from?

 

[subaru]

Where did that come from?

Radio tonight

Apparently was going to be announced this afternoon

This makes sense

 

[jenny61_99]

Radio tonight

Apparently was going to be announced this afternoon

Roo was saying today they still hadn’t finalised it. So they must have been waiting for someone to accept the task and that fell through. I don’t think it matters so much because they want to get the results from the review first to identify what sort of coach they are looking for. So if that isn’t going to finish until the end of this week, it’s probably not essential they be named today.

 

[mistylake]

Over 10 posts a day for the past 12 years.... that can't be healthy

Are you sure doing that math is either?

 

[Sanders]

Let's not forget that forums like Big Footy also provide unlimited opportunities for anonymous criticism, much of which is purely opinion based on prejudices and limited knowledge.

Is that you Graham?

Forums provide an open opportunity for substantive debate, without the prejudice of position, privilege and assumed expertise

Your argument is only as good as what you bring. Certainly there are some very low rent bottom feeders, but there are those willing and able to make cogent arguments too

Which, you haven’t yet done

While this thread was started as a genuine conversation about mental health and well being being part of our recent structural and performance issues, many of you have chosen, once again, to use it as a vehicle to abuse and denigrate from the comfort of your keyboards. Big Footy is symptomatic of the problem and will never be part of the solution.

If you believe this thread was a genuine conversation about mental health then I don’t know what to tell you.

Let’s just say it’s not a great look

 

[Sanders]

It doesn’t matter to you but it matters to Jenny, which is the only person that matters with respect to Jenny.

It’s about respect of the individual in a forum. We all deserve that.

As usual you’ve got it about face

It’s not up to Jenny to agree whether she is a club apologist in the eyes of others.

She doesn’t get that veto.

 

[jenny61_99]

As usual you’ve got it about face

It’s not up to Jenny to agree whether she is a club apologist in the eyes of others.

She doesn’t get that veto.

So... despite evidence to the contrary, because YOU decide I'm a club apologist... I am? Right.

 

[Sanders]

“Maybe” you overstated? What things happened? Torture? Mental abuse? Humiliation? Were you there? The drastic over exaggeration and embellishment from so many of you,

Where was I blaming you for our mistakes? FFS, READ what is there. Not what you THINK I said.

The difference is I say I DON’T KNOW what happened.

Do I say they’re wrong?

This is exactly what’s wrong.

Jenny asserts certain claims are drastic exaggerations and embellishments

Then claims she doesn’t know anything, but knows enough to state confidently that certain things are drastic exaggerations and embellishments

And then has the audacity to suggest she never said those things that were drastic exaggerations and embellishments were wrong

Now either there is disingenuous motivations at play, or she doesn’t know the meaning of the words drastic exaggerations and embellishments

Neither is a great look for someone pretending to want to raise standards.
No wonder people are fed up of the hypocrisy