A good win but...

[Big Blow Hard]

A good win but...

Mcfee is a liability across half forward
.

Aside from not being able to spell the name of one of our own player.
Did you watch the game at all? McPhee was great last night. consistantly provided a target and held on to his marks. Give me that liability any day.
My only issue with him up there is he still thinks like a backman, he just needs to back himself and go for it. With Lovett-Murray back, I think they can go along way to filling the void left by Lucas. To fast tall forwards to draw the attention from Lloyd. These two will cause some match u headaches when they are both up and going.

 

[monty1104]

He's a crap ruckman. It's as simple as that. You're telling me he played well in the ruck last night... I don't give a shite about around the ground, tell me what you really think about his ruck work. Was he supplying our midfielders with first opportunity by tapping it to their advantage? Was he negating his opponents influence? Everyone seems to be blaming the midfielders for lack of clearances, I say look at the ruckman! That's where my opinion differs it seems to everyone else but I'm happy with that, the win/loss ratio since he's been in the ruck backs up my argument.

For God's sake when Paul Salmon was brought back at the age of 38 he was better than Hille!

Right, so David Hille is solely responsible for our poor form over the past three years? Is that what you are implying? If so, you are a bigger tool than I thought.

 

[The Donners]

Right, so David Hille is solely responsible for our poor form over the past three years? Is that what you are implying? If so, you are a bigger tool than I thought.

No one is answering the question. Call me what you want mate, I don't expect everyone on this forum to be over 18.......

No, you were insinuating that's what I said, I wasn't implying that at all. I was saying he's a crap ruckman. I was suggesting that if we'd had a decent ruckman the win/loss ratio over the past 3-4 years wouldn't be so ugly. I place the responsbility mostly on Kevin Sheedy if you must know for that ratio, he actually had confidence in the fact Hille could be our number 1 ruckman!

 

[monty1104]

Hille can be the number one ruckman. In fact apart from Dean Cox, he has probably been the best ruckman in the league for the first three rounds. If you cant see that, try taking your blinkers off and looking at the situation without bias. He is a very good player. You keep talking about how being a good ruckman doesnt mean that they are good around the ground. Dean Cox isnt the best tap ruckman goinag around, but he is almost another midfielder for WCE. Same goes with Hille to a lesser extent. Once he has finished in the centre, he gets on his bike and roams the ground, and hgis opponent struggles to keep up with him. Having a ruckman who is good around the ground is a great asset, moreso than a great tap ruckman IMO. And if you dont believe me, check the stats. Even the best tap ruckman might only have around a 30% tap to advantage rate. So of 10 hitouts he gets, 3 will go to a teammate. And then what are they doing for the rest of the game? NOTHING! Hille gets around 20% taps to advantage, and then runs around getting around 18 possies this year. Thats pretty good if you ask me.

 

[The Donners]

Hille can be the number one ruckman. In fact apart from Dean Cox, he has probably been the best ruckman in the league for the first three rounds. If you cant see that, try taking your blinkers off and looking at the situation without bias. He is a very good player. You keep talking about how being a good ruckman doesnt mean that they are good around the ground. Dean Cox isnt the best tap ruckman goinag around, but he is almost another midfielder for WCE. Same goes with Hille to a lesser extent. Once he has finished in the centre, he gets on his bike and roams the ground, and hgis opponent struggles to keep up with him. Having a ruckman who is good around the ground is a great asset, moreso than a great tap ruckman IMO. And if you dont believe me, check the stats. Even the best tap ruckman might only have around a 30% tap to advantage rate. So of 10 hitouts he gets, 3 will go to a teammate. And then what are they doing for the rest of the game? NOTHING! Hille gets around 20% taps to advantage, and then runs around getting around 18 possies this year. Thats pretty good if you ask me.

Show me the stat which says Hille taps 20% to the advantage of his teammate. I disagree about the importance or lack there of of tap rucking, Blake gave Geelong first opportunity about 80% of his taps against us in round 2... Hille had 23 touches, does that mean he had a good game? That's bullshit!

You want me to take my blinkers off? I thought that's what I've been doing by criticising Hille's rucking abilities?

And as for someone suggesting Hille dominated round 1, bullshit. Look at the stats. I'm over this thread.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Hille can be the number one ruckman. In fact apart from Dean Cox, he has probably been the best ruckman in the league for the first three rounds. If you cant see that, try taking your blinkers off and looking at the situation without bias. He is a very good player. You keep talking about how being a good ruckman doesnt mean that they are good around the ground. Dean Cox isnt the best tap ruckman goinag around, but he is almost another midfielder for WCE. Same goes with Hille to a lesser extent. Once he has finished in the centre, he gets on his bike and roams the ground, and hgis opponent struggles to keep up with him. Having a ruckman who is good around the ground is a great asset, moreso than a great tap ruckman IMO. And if you dont believe me, check the stats. Even the best tap ruckman might only have around a 30% tap to advantage rate. So of 10 hitouts he gets, 3 will go to a teammate. And then what are they doing for the rest of the game? NOTHING! Hille gets around 20% taps to advantage, and then runs around getting around 18 possies this year. Thats pretty good if you ask me.

Well said mate

 

[monty1104]

Show me the stat which says Hille taps 20% to the advantage of his teammate. I disagree about the importance or lack there of of tap rucking, Blake gave Geelong first opportunity about 80% of his taps against us in round 2... Hille had 23 touches, does that mean he had a good game? That's bullshit!

You want me to take my blinkers off? I thought that's what I've been doing by criticising Hille's rucking abilities?

And as for someone suggesting Hille dominated round 1, bullshit. Look at the stats. I'm over this thread.

You want stats, look at the paper. Hille - 17 hitouts, 29% to advantage. Kreuzer - 12 hitouts, 0% to advantage.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

You want stats, look at the paper. Hille - 17 hitouts, 29% to advantage. Kreuzer - 12 hitouts, 0% to advantage.

Nice

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Another funny stat is that Mal Michael had 12 spoils not including 1 contended mark and 8 touches. Looking at those stats he had an alright night considering they went to Fevola 25 or more times.

 

[The Donners]

You want stats, look at the paper. Hille - 17 hitouts, 29% to advantage. Kreuzer - 12 hitouts, 0% to advantage.

Well done you can read. I totally dispute that stat. I watched the game last night, taped it and watched it again.

 

[monty1104]

Well done you can read.

Sure can, ive been reading your tripe all day.

I totally dispute that stat.

Dispute it all you want, but thats the stat. You asked for the stat, and I gave it to you, now youre disputing it. Are you an only child by any chance?

I watched the game last night, taped it and watched it again.

15 possies, 17 hitouts and a goal isnt a bad game, especially when he was off the ground for a bit with and injured shoulder

 

[Smyth94]

Seems like you're towing the company line there mate. Essendon's problem is it doesn't respect the role of ruckman. I couldn't care less if Hille and Laycock won around the ground, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion when Kruezer kicked a couple of goals but hey that's just my opinion.

Would you prefer Hille around the ground or McVeigh? You're basically saying we don't need a ruckman.

Did you watch the first 3 quarters, I don't think Hille got first hands on the ball in the ruck once. It seems most people only remember the 10 minutes of brilliance in the final quarter.

I'm not pessimistic, I like to think I'm realistic. Against quality opposition Hille looks like a fool.

What I'm saying is that you have no idea about the roles of the modern day ruckman. If it were just the case of winning the hit-outs we would just draft 7ft tall monsters.

Yes I did watch the first 3 quarters and I saw Hille and Laycock beat their opponents.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Well done you can read. I totally dispute that stat. I watched the game last night, taped it and watched it again. If anyone watching Hille in that game says he played well in the ruck then they should shoot themselves.

you dispute the stat? lol

 

[The Donners]

Sure can, ive been reading your tripe all day.

Dispute it all you want, but thats the stat. You asked for the stat, and I gave it to you, now youre disputing it. Are you an only child by any chance?


15 possies, 17 hitouts and a goal isnt a bad game, especially when he was off the ground for a bit with and injured shoulder

Ruck work. How was it? Forget the stats for a second. What did you think? Are you telling me he was good in the ruck or not? I don't care what he did anywhere else on the ground, what was his ruck work like???

FFS someone answer the question!

I'll answer it, EVERY time Hille was in the ruck Carlton dominated that part of the game.

 

[monty1104]

Ruck work. How was it? Forget the stats for a second. What did you think? Are you telling me he was good in the ruck or not? I don't care what he did anywhere else on the ground, what was his ruck work like???

FFS someone answer the question!

I'll answer it, EVERY time Hille was in the ruck Carlton dominated that part of the game.

Watch the game again. You will notice that when Carlton made their charge in the 2nd and 3rd qtrs, Laycock was in the ruck both times

And FWIW, I thought Hilles ruckwork was very good. Sure, he probably should have done better against a debutant and a Cloke, but seriously, he won his position and was probably in our best three players.

 

[The Donners]

What I'm saying is that you have no idea about the roles of the modern day ruckman. If it were just the case of winning the hit-outs we would just draft 7ft tall monsters.

Yes I did watch the first 3 quarters and I saw Hille and Laycock beat their opponents.

What, in the ruck? Clearly didn't! And Kruezer kicked 2 goals in that time.

Last night Laycock wasn't bad in the ruck, he spent far less time there than Hille but when Laycock was there we were far better. It's undeniable. It's on video!!!

 

[The Donners]

Watch the game again. You will notice that when Carlton made their charge in the 2nd and 3rd qtrs, Laycock was in the ruck both times

And FWIW, I thought Hilles ruckwork was very good. Sure, he probably should have done better against a debutant and a Cloke, but seriously, he won his position and was probably in our best three players.

Bullshit, Hille was in the ruck, was losing and then Laycock was switched there, twice!

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Bullshit, Hille was in the ruck, was losing and then Laycock was switched there, twice!

Hille was off the ground for the majority of the second quarter when he went down to the rooms to get his arm checked.

 

[monty1104]

I distinctly remember Carlton breaking out frim the middle TWICE while Laycock was in the ruck and kicking a goal without us toucing the ball.

 

[The Donners]

you dispute the stat? lol

37 hitouts to 31, Hille having 17 and Laycock having 19 doesn't necessarily tell the truth. What if Hille had 17 hitouts to 31 against and Laycock had his 19 to Carlton's 0? Unlikely but certainly reason for disputing a stat! lol

 

[The Donners]

Hille was off the ground for the majority of the second quarter when he went down to the rooms to get his arm checked.

Exageration?

 

[The Dustbin]

I don't think Hille is a great tap ruckman, yet there will be games and moments where he does palm the ball well. Where he is good, is around the ground and his 2nd and 3rd efforts.

I'm not sure why he is copping unnecessary stick. Hille again was very good last night, stood up when we needed him too.

 

[The Donners]

I don't think Hille is a great tap ruckman, yet there will be games and moments where he does palm the ball well. Where he is good, is around the ground and his 2nd and 3rd efforts.

I'm not sure why he is copping unnecessary stick. Hille again was very good last night, stood up when we needed him too.

Hallelueya!

And those moments in the ruck are fleeting!

... and I've NEVER said he wasn't good around the ground!

 

[dejaSLATTERY]

I don't think Hille is a great tap ruckman, yet there will be games and moments where he does palm the ball well. Where he is good, is around the ground and his 2nd and 3rd efforts.

I'm not sure why he is copping unnecessary stick. Hille again was very good last night, stood up when we needed him too.

Exactly. Hilley was far from poor last night. I thought he had a decent game and made his presence felt after coming off.

Mal also I thought was ok, he was giving fev a bath early and made at least half a dozen spoils. Nothing he could do in the 3rd when judd and co were hitting him lace out on the lead though

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Exageration?

He only played 74% of game time, which is terrible for #1 ruckman, in comparision Cloke played 88%.