A good year to Tank

nut

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From the age.

THE new Gold Coast team will have access to 12 uncontracted players before it enters the competition and will have two opportunities to, in effect, "gut" a very strong 2010 draft, under the AFL's proposal for establishing the 17th team.

Under the AFL's proposed "list establishment" document for the Gold Coast and Western Sydney teams, the new Queensland club will be given access to a staggering 10 elite 17-year-olds — from all over the country — in next year's draft, and Western Sydney will be given the same deal in 2010.

The AFL yesterday confirmed that it was raising the draft age to 18 years (January 1 to December 31) for the 2009 draft — a decision that will dramatically improve the quality of the 2010 draft, in which the Gold Coast is slated to have picks 1-5, 14, 15, 24 and 41.

The Gold Coast team will be given access to the cream of the players who missed out on the 2009 national draft — a substantial group of players, according to the clubs — because their 18th birthdays fell between January 1 and April 30, 2010.

Numerically, that represents a third of what would have been the new player pool for 2009.

If the Gold Coast team is unable to either persuade those teenagers to sign with them in 2009, it will be able to draft many of them the following year, when it holds picks 1-5, 14, 15, 24 and 41.

An almost identical set of rules — including the 10 17-year-olds — is proposed for Western Sydney in 2010-2011. It would have picks 1-5, 15, 16 (due to the extra club), 25 and 42.

Under the proposal, which several clubs have seen:

■The Gold Coast will be given a 10% higher salary cap for its first five years, with Western Sydney given an additional 20% — similar to the Swans — for its first five seasons. The Brisbane Lions had a 10% allowance at one stage, which was removed after pressure from Melbourne clubs following their run of three premierships.

■Both clubs will be given the opportunity to sign up to 10 uncontracted players before they enter the competition, plus they will have picks one and two in the pre-season draft — in practice, that means they could each snare a dozen uncontracted players.

■The Gold Coast will begin warehousing the best Queensland talent at the end of 2008, when it will be allowed to list 15 Queenslanders from outside of the draft. It is presumed that these players will play in the TAC Cup competition with a team that could be coached by Michael Voss, the favourite to coach the 17th club.

■The Gold Coast club will also be given three years in which to remove the best Queensland talent from the system. After its 2008 selection of Queenslanders, it will be allowed the pick of the Sunshine State again in 2009 (15 players) and five from its home state plus five from the Northern Territory in 2010.

While many clubs can see opportunities for trading with the Gold Coast and Western Sydney and are formulating five-year plans to deal with the radically changed landscape, there is acceptance that the expansion rules will benefit some clubs with stronger young lists and damage others.
Looks like the elite Quality that we have will be the last of it. A chance for early picks will be over after this year..... This year might be a good year to loose the the close ones ...
 

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CoggaRules

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#2
Looks like the eagles know exactly what they are doing.
How the ____ can a side go from contenders to where they are at, on the back of 2 players being out the mix? They have Cox, Glass, Kerr, Lynch, Hunter, Braun etc and your gunna tell me they arent tanking? ;)
 

WATIGE

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#3
Looks like the eagles know exactly what they are doing.
How the ____ can a side go from contenders to where they are at, on the back of 2 players being out the mix? They have Cox, Glass, Kerr, Lynch, Hunter, Braun etc and your gunna tell me they arent tanking? ;)
Agree - but they're going to be pipped by the Bloose who, now that they know the score, are now only going to win two more for the year:thumbsdown::D:mad::confused: This weekends game - the 'Nui cup.:eek:
 

CoggaRules

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#5
Agree - but they're going to be pipped by the Bloose who, now that they know the score, are now only going to win two more for the year:thumbsdown::D:mad::confused: This weekends game - the 'Nui cup.:eek:
I know the tigers needed a boost in their stocks, re. a few wins, but i am tipping that once again, they will make the wrong move at the wrong time.
Surely logic suggests that as a coach, commitee etc , if you really are looking at the "future" of the club as a whole, future meaning next 20 years at least, unless you know 100% that the current crop on the list, is going to take you to the holy grail or in and around it for the best part of that 20 years, then you should do everything possible to gain the "best" of the next crop, before you cant get the best of any crop for the next 10 years. ;)
 

WATIGE

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#6
I know the tigers needed a boost in their stocks, re. a few wins, but i am tipping that once again, they will make the wrong move at the wrong time.
Surely logic suggests that as a coach, commitee etc , if you really are looking at the "future" of the club as a whole, future meaning next 20 years at least, unless you know 100% that the current crop on the list, is going to take you to the holy grail or in and around it for the best part of that 20 years, then you should do everything possible to gain the "best" of the next crop, before you cant get the best of any crop for the next 10 years. ;)
Are you suggesting we should join in? It would do us more harm than good. We're finally building a decent culture, game approach (maybe even game a good game plan?) and a pretty good young list - to tank now would kill the culture aspect and only gain us a pick maybe four or five spots better - and it'd still be a lottery. Don't do it - plus we don't want to be lumped in the Carltank gang.:thumbsdown:
 

CoggaRules

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#7
Are you suggesting we should join in? It would do us more harm than good. We're finally building a decent culture, game approach (maybe even game a good game plan?) and a pretty good young list - to tank now would kill the culture aspect and only gain us a pick maybe four or five spots better - and it'd still be a lottery. Don't do it - plus we don't want to be lumped in the Carltank gang.:thumbsdown:
what culture man? forget this ____ing culture shit, its what gets in the way of "smart business desicions" focused on shoring up the future welfare of a club.

And as an exhibit of non smart, your last statement is a glaring example. Who gives a flying ____ if we are lumped in the Carltank gang? Do you think it would matter to anyone when we were kicking butt and people would say, but you tanked to be there? Would not rate, what most would say then would be, its the quick or the dead fools, the rules were the rules and now we are where we are, where are you?
Not suggesting we need to dive, just suggesting that if the current footy dept and committee are purely sucking our dicks, then they should take a good hard look at themselves, because they are not doing what is right for the clubs long term future. i.e if they havent got a blueprint in place on what players they are going to move on next year, and are now working out how to implement it, then they are useless and should vacate the scene and let others who have get on with the job. ;)
 

tugga

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My line of thinking is somewhat different.
I stil don't think we'll finish too high up the ladder this year. 10th at best. That's still a top 6 or 7 pick. Next year, maybe lower reaches of the 8 (hopefully). That's still a top 10 pick.
use them wisely and we won't 'need' the 2010 draft as much as other clubs who will finish up the top for the next two or three years.
In other words, if we are relying on the 2010 or 2011 draft to turn ourselves into a contender, then we're screwed. really screwed.
Yes, I know you need to keep developing your list to stay near the top, but if these draft concessions really do come in for the Gold Coast team, then I don't think we'll be as screwed over as some clubs.
I'm not panicking about it. Just my thoughts.
 

WATIGE

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#9
what culture man? forget this ____ing culture shit, its what gets in the way of "smart business desicions" focused on shoring up the future welfare of a club.

And as an exhibit of non smart, your last statement is a glaring example. Who gives a flying ____ if we are lumped in the Carltank gang? Do you think it would matter to anyone when we were kicking butt and people would say, but you tanked to be there? Would not rate, what most would say then would be, its the quick or the dead fools, the rules were the rules and now we are where we are, where are you?
Not suggesting we need to dive, just suggesting that if the current footy dept and committee are purely sucking our dicks, then they should take a good hard look at themselves, because they are not doing what is right for the clubs long term future. i.e if they havent got a blueprint in place on what players they are going to move on next year, and are now working out how to implement it, then they are useless and should vacate the scene and let others who have get on with the job. ;)
OK - Cogga I think you read the import of the bits that I was talking about the wrong way round. The bit you highlighted was the throw away final line - not the important guts of it. The real "culture" I am talking about is that inside the team. This attitude the guys have had at the fore has taken the beast part of a season to establish - in my eyes I saw them trying, very unsuccesfully, to be like this early last year. We are almost there, to obviously tank or impact the team negatively result wise, which is what I thought you were saying, would just kill that good work off and put us behind the eight ball again.

Fully agree with the bit I've highlighted - but if they're not that doesn't mean we should tank, just get a new team in to do the right things (my feeling is they have got it very close to right, if not fully on target).
 

WATIGE

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#10
My line of thinking is somewhat different.
I stil don't think we'll finish too high up the ladder this year. 10th at best. That's still a top 6 or 7 pick. Next year, maybe lower reaches of the 8 (hopefully). That's still a top 10 pick.
use them wisely and we won't 'need' the 2010 draft as much as other clubs who will finish up the top for the next two or three years.
In other words, if we are relying on the 2010 or 2011 draft to turn ourselves into a contender, then we're screwed. really screwed.
Yes, I know you need to keep developing your list to stay near the top, but if these draft concessions really do come in for the Gold Coast team, then I don't think we'll be as screwed over as some clubs.
I'm not panicking about it. Just my thoughts.
Well said Tugga:thumbsu:
 

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itsintheblood

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#12
It is what it is. I think we have a good mix of young talent at our disposal to go past this nasty period of draft favouritism. We just need to pick up a few quality talls and a big key defender over the next 2 season and we should be right.
 

CoggaRules

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#13
It is what it is. I think we have a good mix of young talent at our disposal to go past this nasty period of draft favouritism. We just need to pick up a few quality talls and a big key defender over the next 2 season and we should be right.
just shake can, and add water hey?

The waste of space that were Mark Graham & P. Bowden is going to haunt us. Instead of giving a try to a couple of would be talls or KPPs we went out and got fill ins for what? like WTF was that all about? Complete and utter waste of time and money and space. ;)
 

itsintheblood

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#14
just shake can, and add water hey?

The waste of space that were Mark Graham & P. Bowden is going to haunt us. Instead of giving a try to a couple of would be talls or KPPs we went out and got fill ins for what? like WTF was that all about? Complete and utter waste of time and money and space. ;)
Yeah pretty much.
 

nut

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I think we need to Draft Midfielders to the point where we have TOO many and can afford to trade for some picks...
 

telsor

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#16
Tanking...NO..Never.

-----------------

What we need isn't more talent, it's getting more out of the talent we have.

2 big parts of that are experience and confidence.

Experience will come as the kids age...OK, no problem how we go there.

Confidence will come from WINNING.

It's more important that we get the kids playing a good style of footy and doing well than getting another high draft pick.

"The expansion rules will benefit some clubs with stronger young lists "

That's pretty much us.

--------------

That said. This year will be the last 'good' year for some time. Next year will be only 8 months worth of players due to the change in eligability, and 2 years after that will be warped by the 2 new teams.

---------------

Perhaps the biggest thing to learn from these rules is to make sure our better players are all signed up. The 2 new teams will get 12 'free' picks each of established players, and have an oversized salary cap to fill ( and their many kids will be cheap! ).
 

_RT_

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#18
Just on this idea that we have gone about it the wrong way. I actually think we have just about got it right. If you look back over the drafts under Wallace you'll see what I mean:

2004
First year of drafting we had 10 draft picks overall. From those 10 picks the 7 are still on the list and the make up of that group is 4 midfield/flanker types: Deledio, Tambling, Meyer & Polo and 3 talls (ruck/KP): Pattison, Thursfield and McGuane.

2005
Second year followed a similar path to the first. 7 picks overall, 6 currently remain and the breakdown is as follows: Midfield/Flankers - 4 JON, Casserly, White & Howat. Rucks/KP - 2 Hughes & Graham.

2006
Third year and we had 8 picks overall plus a good trade. 5 still remain with the breakdown as follows: Midfield/Flankers - 4 Edwards, Connors, Collins & King. Talls - 2 Riewoldt & Polak

2007
Last year we had 7 picks (not counting Howat being re drafted) and this time we went tall. Only 2 Midfield/Flanker types were picked up with Cotchin and Collard. On the other hand we went with 5 KP/3rd Tall/Ruck - Rance, Putt, Gourdis, Silvester & Cartledge.

Looking at that it tells me that Wallace has worked his plan well. Stocked up on midfield/flanker types who have developed quicker than what the talls would have and are able to play while we still have blokes like Richo running around who as an experienced KP player knows how to finish off the job & Simmonds who can carry the load in the ruck. In the meantime we can/will be able to slowly blood the likes of Riewoldt, Hughes, Rance & Gourdis in the forward line over the next few years, while we also give time to Pattison, Graham & Putt to hopefully develop into quality ruckmen.

That being the case it would seem that the next few years aren't going to hit us as hard as some might think it will. Now that we have spent money improving our recruitment dept, what we will need to do though is make sure the picks we do have are not the speculative picks of the past but more the safe, secure picks that are more likely than not going to deliver.
 

CoggaRules

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#19
Just on this idea that we have gone about it the wrong way. I actually think we have just about got it right. If you look back over the drafts under Wallace you'll see what I mean:

2004
First year of drafting we had 10 draft picks overall. From those 10 picks the 7 are still on the list and the make up of that group is 4 midfield/flanker types: Deledio, Tambling, Meyer & Polo and 3 talls (ruck/KP): Pattison, Thursfield and McGuane.

2005
Second year followed a similar path to the first. 7 picks overall, 6 currently remain and the breakdown is as follows: Midfield/Flankers - 4 JON, Casserly, White & Howat. Rucks/KP - 2 Hughes & Graham.

2006
Third year and we had 8 picks overall plus a good trade. 5 still remain with the breakdown as follows: Midfield/Flankers - 4 Edwards, Connors, Collins & King. Talls - 2 Riewoldt & Polak

2007
Last year we had 7 picks (not counting Howat being re drafted) and this time we went tall. Only 2 Midfield/Flanker types were picked up with Cotchin and Collard. On the other hand we went with 5 KP/3rd Tall/Ruck - Rance, Putt, Gourdis, Silvester & Cartledge.

Looking at that it tells me that Wallace has worked his plan well. Stocked up on midfield/flanker types who have developed quicker than what the talls would have and are able to play while we still have blokes like Richo running around who as an experienced KP player knows how to finish off the job & Simmonds who can carry the load in the ruck. In the meantime we can/will be able to slowly blood the likes of Riewoldt, Hughes, Rance & Gourdis in the forward line over the next few years, while we also give time to Pattison, Graham & Putt to hopefully develop into quality ruckmen.

That being the case it would seem that the next few years aren't going to hit us as hard as some might think it will. Now that we have spent money improving our recruitment dept, what we will need to do though is make sure the picks we do have are not the speculative picks of the past but more the safe, secure picks that are more likely than not going to deliver.
yes we went all out with these two. LMAO...sheeeeeeeeesh ;)
 

Madtiger2006

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#22
yeah, let's tank. Then Terry will get sacked and we'll pick up a Dean Bailey and underperform for another 5 years with a poor game plan and waste our talent. :eek:
 

CoggaRules

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#24
What/Who would you have rathered we targetted then? By all reports there wasn't much left and as rookie picks they don't really cost much anyway.
as rookie picks they dont cost whoever you give a chance to.
and whovever we pointed to, would have jumped at the chance to get a chance at the big time. To suggest that there wasnt much left is a total cop out. They could have scoured the whole of Aus and found two maybes that might have lead to one being a rabbit out of a hat. To go for two who pretty much are going to fill in time with IMO no upside to our future stocks was a mistake.

I was listening to Fola last night on SEN, the question was, why werent you picked up in the draft and what is so different now.

His answer, i was lazy at junior level, never tried to break lines, didnt hit the 100% button. There is a plethora of the same still out there. You gotta look for it, not just look in the usual backyard of Coburg and a discard from the bummers. ;)
 

telsor

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#25
yes we went all out with these two. LMAO...sheeeeeeeeesh ;)
Both useful picks.

Silvester is because we always pick one from Coburg...Hopefully, it's someone who will come good, but more importantly, it helps us to recruit decent players for the burgers if they think they have a chance like this. Better players there mean our kids develop better with better support from those around them, especially when these support acts will be working hard to impress and Coburg winning more games from the extra depth. If we never pick up a good player from that program, it's still worth a rookie pick!

Cartledge. Last year we were exposed for not having mature ruck backups..so we got someone who was decent, and cheap ( rookie ) to give us options if Simmo goes down again. Could we have traded for someone better? Sure..but at that price, this was a good value pick.
 
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