A Lachie Neale Brownlow would be a disgrace.

[Ah12]

if neale is so bad how do you rate prestia?

 

[GoalSneak38]

We need a player like him at Richmond TBO, someone who can find the footy consistently. it would go a long way to improving our centre clearance numbers.
Anyone who gets the football first means they have the opportunity to do something with it before anyone else.

The point the OP is trying to make (but wildly out of focus) is players like Dusty do more with less.
There is room for both styles pf player.

That's not the point he is trying to make

 

[dean33]

This is just objectively wrong though, leading the league in score involvements, the number one goal kicking mid in the league this year. In what way does he not hurt you?

I’ve watched him closely when he has racked them up in 3 games against Richmond and not once was I worried about him like I would if Sidebottom or Dangerfield were getting it that much. Maybe he is damaging against inferior opposition and when he comes up against a superior team his disposals don’t count for much? Like I’ve said, very good player but doesn’t hurt enough for the amount of ball he gets.

 

[Slysh]

Mate, i think you're confusing yourself. I'm not arguing a solo Dusty v Neale argument. I know this is what you are trying to turn it into. As i have said, Richmond don't run with a tag. And how impactful was Neale last night in a 40 point demolition? Like i said, guys like him, Mitchell and Macrae are great for superrich, but in my opinion he's not even in the top 5 midfielders in the league. Pendlebury, Martin, Dangerfield, Fyfe, Cunnington, Kelly are all ahead of him.

Mate you can compare the numbers of any of those players, none of them are having the scoreboard impact of Neale this year.

Neale was not great last night and no where near his best but it doesn't take away from the season he is having.

 

[royboys4eva]

not even top 15 in the league

This is what happens with home schooling. The kids are bored.

 

[Coach_Required]

Come on NZ, just because Lachie hasn't hurt us with his 300 possessions doesn't mean he is a bad player, it just means the other teams aren't as good at smothering his effectiveness.

 

[PhatBoy]

Not sure of your point, he gets lots of links in the chain disposals but doesn’t hurt enough. Dusty’s 20 disposables are better than Neales 40. Look I’m not saying he’s not a good player, he is, his work rate is elite but I’ll stand by the fact he doesn’t hurt enough for the possessions he gets. If a Dangerfield, Pendlebury, Sidebottom gets 35 against us it hurts, lachie Neale not so much.

what so let’s hypothetically say Martin has 20 touches, 0 scores, 3 clearances, and, say, 8 clangers.
Like he did against Collingwood this season.

that’s somehow going to be more damaging than Neale having 37, 2 goals, 10 clearances, 4 clangers - like he did in his previous game against Richmond?

yes Martin is capable of having an impact on his best days with minimal touches. I’m sure Neale is capable of the odd totally irrelevant game even when the ball is glued to him.

but simply saying ‘yeah but he always makes his possessions count’ is pretty stupid.

 

[dean33]

Mate you can compare the numbers of any of those players, none of them are having the scoreboard impact of Neale this year.

Neale was not great last night and no where near his best but it doesn't take away from the season he is having.

Neale looked as good last night as he has the last 3 times they’ve played Richmond. 51, 35, 26 possessions but the same impact in all 3. Maybe I’m not watching him enough against other teams or maybe he’s just no good against Richmond?

 

[captain blood 17]

Mate you can compare the numbers of any of those players, none of them are having the scoreboard impact of Neale this year.

Neale was not great last night and no where near his best but it doesn't take away from the season he is having.

That's ok, we are allowed to agree to disagree.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Honestly, Neale like Mitchell and Macrae are a super coach dream selection. But, man, talk about a harmless, sheepdog footballer. Give me a 20 Fyfe, Pendlebury, Martin or Dangerfield disposal game over a 30 possession game of Neale any day of the week. I know who's gonna do more damage. He's so harmless, we didn't even bother to tag or set a defensive player on him.

He averages the second most score involvements in the competition and kicks a goal a game. Might not be the most damaging per possession but his work over a game hurts the opposition none the less.

 

[Vassp]

Well see the last part is where is slightly disagree, historically he does but currently?

So avoiding all the disposal talk

Neale has him covered in clearances, meters gained, tackles, marks etc. All the mid stuff we know he wins more of

But the talk Dusty is more damaging this year is just false

They average the same amount of goals despite Dusty going forward more but Neale averages more score involvements.

So Dusty doesn't even have him covered in the scoreboard impact like he normally would.

Dusty was not right this year and really should not have played some games, his mobility was heavily impacted.
Its only the last month that Dusty has been mobile.

As I said I would love Neale at Richmond. Enough said.

 

[Slysh]

Neale looked as good last night as he has the last 3 times they’ve played Richmond. 51, 35, 26 possessions but the same impact in all 3. Maybe I’m not watching him enough against other teams or maybe he’s just no good against Richmond?

I think the Richmond system has proven to hold up very well against everyone at this point.

He had an almost game still got his 5 clearances, few inside 50's and a shot on goal.

Lions inaccuracy also shaped that game a little.

I would recommend watching him closely around stoppages over the next few weeks, his ability to read the tap down from ruckmen is the best in the game at the moment. He is also very good at getting the the drop of the ball whilst on the move which allows him to exit the stoppage with pace.

 

[Mofra]

The word 'disgrace' is used far too much in the AFL world. It's lost all meaning.

 

[PhatBoy]

Neale looked as good last night as he has the last 3 times they’ve played Richmond. 51, 35, 26 possessions but the same impact in all 3. Maybe I’m not watching him enough against other teams or maybe he’s just no good against Richmond?

37 touches, 18 contested, 2 goals, 10 clearances. That was his game in the QF last year.

sounds a lot to me like you are equating a result to his effectiveness. A grossly unfair way to judge a footballer in a team game.

like saying that Brian Lara didn’t play well against Australia because he only won 1 series against them - even though his 9 centuries would suggest he didn’t struggle too much.

 

[Vassp]

That's not the point he is trying to make

Read between the lines a little and put some honey on it.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Meanwhile, Neale is 2nd in the league (behind Christian Petracca) in score involvements per game this season.

Neither of the past two Brownlow winners (Nat Fyfe and Tom Mitchell) were even in the top 30 for score involvements in their respective Brownlow years.

Says a fair bit about Neale's playmaking ability from the middle I reckon.

I agree but score involvements is a misleading stat. IT depends significantly on the quality of the team you play for.

For example, Brisbane players are first, second and third for score involvements this season. Do we believe Brisbane have the 3 most damaging players in the comp? They have 2 more players in the top 20, including Jarrod Berry. That's 5 players before my club has a single representative. That's because Brisbane score often (albeit behinds).

If you play in a low scoring team, or have an inefficient forward line, or play a defensive brand of football, or incompetent team mates, your score involvements will be low through no fault of your own.

You can have the exact same possession in the same way but one team will have the capability to score from it and one team won't.

I would say given the forward line (and team) Nat Fyfe and Tom Mitchell had in their Brownlow years compared to the all out attack of the Brisbane side this year, you can't hold that against Mitchell and Fyfe. I mean, does anyone believe Nat Fyfe is not a damaging player?

 

[BigPond101]

A disgraceful brownlow is fitting for a disgraceful year

 

[Slysh]

37 touches, 18 contested, 2 goals, 10 clearances. That was his game in the QF last year.

sounds a lot to me like you are equating a result to his effectiveness. A grossly unfair way to judge a footballer in a team game.

like saying that Brian Lara didn’t play well against Australia because he only won 1 series against them - even though his 9 centuries would suggest he didn’t struggle too much.

Jeez i didn't even go back and fact check them...

The way they talk you would assume he was Warner in England facing Broad when playing the Tigers

 

[captain blood 17]

The word 'disgrace' is used far too much in the AFL world. It's lost all meaning.

Very much like the words superstar and champion.

 

[Captain_Bender]

If you ever think GAblett was just a stat padded than I'm sorry but your an idiot with no credibility

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

He was at Gold Coast

 

[Harris Specter]

Mate, i think you're confusing yourself. I'm not arguing a solo Dusty v Neale argument. I know this is what you are trying to turn it into. As i have said, Richmond don't run with a tag. And how impactful was Neale last night in a 40 point demolition? Like i said, guys like him, Mitchell and Macrae are great for super coach, but in my opinion he's not even in the top 5 midfielders in the league. Pendlebury, Martin, Dangerfield, Fyfe, Cunnington, Kelly are all ahead of him.

40 point demolition LOL. Are you broken in the head?

Our inaccuracy flattened the scoreline and your winning margin. I doubt Hardwick would be that impressed by that win when the stats were even throughout the game.

How is Martin going in the coaches votes?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Stick to rugby, OP. I don't think you know all that much about Australian rules.

 

[PhatBoy]

He was at Gold Coast

yes. Clearly his fault that no one else was as good.

Let's take a year from his time at the GC, one where you can't even accuse him of having 17 rookies around him, and a non-Brownlow year.
2014.
League ranking:
2nd for disposals - ok, anyone can do that without having a huge impact on the game.
14th for tackles. Across the entire competition. Hmmm. Doesn't sound like something someone would bother doing if they were just out there to rack up possessions - to be better than roughly 500 other players at tackling. Anyway, let's just put that one down as an anomaly.
3rd for inside 50s: Gee if I didn't know better I'd almost think that a midfielder in a struggling side would find it hard to pump the ball inside 50 considering much of the time it was getting pumped the other direction. Again, probably just an anomaly though.
3rd for Goal assists: In a struggling team, with only one recognised forward, with an attack ranked 9th in the league, he's better than every player in the competition bar 2 others, at directly setting up goals. Again, just an anomaly. More stat padding I suppose. Instead of getting a stat for setting up those goals, he should have kicked a fabled SuperGoal himself each time and had twice the scoreboard impact. That's go goals work in AFL isn't it?
37th for goals per game: Well that makes him look human. Oh wait, until you realise that Robbie Gray is the only midfielder ahead of him on that list. So yeah those touches were just stat padding. On those occasions he kicked normal 6 point goals, he would have been better off spotting up a teammate who could kick a SuperGoal and thus increase his scoreboard impact. More stat padding though.
1st contested possessions: Doesn't like the contest or winning his own ball. He'd rather get a give and go handpass to stat pad. Like literally every other player in the competition apparently, based on the fact that none of them won their own ball as frequently as Ablett.
2nd for effective disposals: That's no surprise really though, because all of his disposals were chip kicks or handballs, such is my understanding.
1st clearances: Meaningless figure for a midfielder. The best midfielders keep the ball locked into stoppages and ensure the ball can't progress anywhere. This figure is another blatant example of stat padding.


How am I going, somewhere around the mark?

 

[BigPond101]

10 Dusty posessions are worth 30 (or more) of Neale

That handall over his head to set up a goal after he won the ball last game was worth the output of several Lachie Neales combined

 

[PhatBoy]

10 Dusty posessions are worth 30 (or more) of Neale

That handall over his head to set up a goal after he won the ball last game was worth the output of several Lachie Neales combined

So as speculated earlier, a game like Martin's against Collingwood earlier this year where he has 20 touches and 8 clangers - that's as good as Neale having a 60 touch game is it