Society/Culture A Man's Right In A Marriage Breakdown

RegHickeyStand

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They had a baby five minutes after they first met. She (Rachel) works fast. He's (Brad) a tradie now working long hours so he can buy her the Australian dream. They move in with the folks to save money. They eventually get married so she can have her wedding - another tick off the list. Finally he has enough money together to put a deposit on. And away we go! I asked Brad when he first thought it was over between them. "As soon as the door closed behind when we moved in to our new home. She went a bit strange and distant.". Well, thats what he thinks. I heard rumours from the get go. No proof. But rumours.

Let me say, she is a piece of work. When it came out she rushed over to my house when I was out. When she told my disbelieving missus what Brad was like, and when that didn't work she said, "Oh, and Brad had been cheated on before, you know." I later told my missus, "Yeah, by her!"

The boyfriend:
So they are separated living under the same roof. After a few weeks, Rachel says she wants her fella to spend the weekend with her. At the home. The home he worked his butt off for five years to get a deposit for, on one wage. Rachel wouldn't work in an iron lung. Brad was delighted with the idea. "No way! I'll smash the prick if he turns up here!"

I put it to Brad this way: she is a schemer, and the odds are she would be delighted with that and she would have you on assault. Go see the local cops and find out what rights you have. The local cops have no clue, apparently. He tells me some say yeah, the boyfriend is the odd man out and if it was getting hot and they were called in he would be asked to leave. But another said it is half her house and Brad has no right to refuse entry. What?! Go see a solicitor, I say. The second cop is right.

So this is the long and short of it. She can bring her boyfriend into the marital home. They can sleep together in the marital home. Right in front of the guy who paid for the place. He drives around in the car Brad bought for her. The boyfriend can do all that - and he does all that with Rachel's encouragement. All right in the husband's face. And here is the kick: if Brad loses it (he hasn't - so far. And she has tried to get it on), he can be banned from his own home. After all, it will be two against one on the witness stand.

The current state of play is they share the house. The lovers got somewhere to stay and Brad has it 4 days a week. Then he goes to family, and they move in for several days. Three kids in the middle of it. Charming.

I have thought about this, and it is really a primal issue. At the gym, I have held the punching bag while Brad has pounded it, and I would not like to get hit by him. He is a big strong unit. He has played a good hand so far. He hasn't lost it, yet. But the boyfriend sounds like an entitled jerk who also has a strange legal protection called, "Its half her house. She has rights, you know!"

I get the feeling it is a powderkeg waiting to be lit. I think she doesn't mind the idea. I think it is dumb law. There should be a better protection for a bloke in this situation.
 

The Passenger

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Trying to piece this together - Is Brad entitled to get a girlfriend, bring her around and have their turn driving around in the car ?

So they are separated living under the same roof. After a few weeks, Rachel says she wants her fella to spend the weekend with her. At the home. The home he worked his butt off for five years to get a deposit for, on one wage. Rachel wouldn't work in an iron lung. Brad was delighted with the idea. "No way! I'll smash the prick if he turns up here!"

I put it to Brad this way: she is a schemer, and the odds are she would be delighted with that and she would have you on assault.
Would you not expect the be charged with assault if someone turned up at your house and your smashed the prick. ??
 
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RegHickeyStand

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Trying to piece this together - Is Brad entitled to get a girlfriend, bring her around and have their turn driving around in the car ?


Would you not expect the be charged with assault if someone turned up at your house and your smashed the prick. ??
Brad doesn't want other people (a girlfriend) coming into his house with his 3 kids (3, 6,9). He won't bring a woman around. Last time we talked about it a few months ago. He doesn't have a girlfriend, I don't think. He told me he had no emotion for it. He did take out a girl a couple of times, but that fizzled out.

Of course he will get charged. What I'm saying is, this is primal. I've tried to calm him down a few times over it. She is rubbing his nose in it. But like me, a lot of guys have said they don't think they could stand it. Of course the reality is his. We can only guess what we would do.
 

Malifice

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Nothing in the OP is gendered at all.

Brad enters a parenting plan for the children from the relationship if any (via FDR mediation if she's being stubborn), and buys her out of her share in the house (if any) from the marriage via a property settlement from the divorce, and removes her name from the deed, becoming the sole owner.

He then boots her from the house, gets on tinder and finds a better girl.

It sounds like Brad made two stupid decisions. First was marrying the wrong woman for him and the second was having her name on the deed to the property making her part owner.

Luckily for Brad, both of these decisions can be rectified via a divorce and property settlement.
 

The Passenger

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Brad doesn't want other people (a girlfriend) coming into his house with his 3 kids (3, 6,9). He won't bring a woman around. Last time we talked about it a few months ago. He doesn't have a girlfriend, I don't think. He told me he had no emotion for it. He did take out a girl a couple of times, but that fizzled out.

Of course he will get charged. What I'm saying is, this is primal. I've tried to calm him down a few times over it. She is rubbing his nose in it. But like me, a lot of guys have said they don't think they could stand it. Of course the reality is his. We can only guess what we would do.
Agreed it does sound like she is rubbing his nose in a bit, and she does sound like an unpleasant person. But everything she has done, he has the equal and same opportunity to do. Someone being a dick - as frustrating as it is - isn't reason enough for the law to get involved.

As for the financial side of things, its the same story as above in that it can swing both ways. When you get married - or indeed when you are living together long enough to be defacto - you take on that risk. You become a team and sometimes that doesn't work out and the be better performer gets a raw deal. Unfortunately buyers regret is common in a lot of relationships.
 
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Malifice

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Agreed it does sound like she is rubbing his nose in a bit, and she does sound like an unpleasant person. But everything she has done, he has the equal and same opportunity to do. Someone being a dick - as frustrating as it is - isn't reason enough for the law to get involved.
I disagree. Divorce, parenting plans and property settlements are all part of the legal process.

He needs to man the fu** up, resolve the property dispute and get a parenting plan in place for the kids, buy her out of the House, and get on with his life, making better decisions about who he gets involved with next time.

The current situation is volatile, and is no way to be spending your life.

Instead of sooking it up and blaming her, he needs to take responsibility here. He's made some bad choices, but they're not choices that cant be resolved with a simple property settlement, divorce and a parenting plan for the kids.
 

RegHickeyStand

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I disagree. Divorce, parenting plans and property settlements are all part of the legal process.

He needs to man the fu** up, resolve the property dispute and get a parenting plan in place for the kids, buy her out of the House, and get on with his life, making better decisions about who he gets involved with next time.

The current situation is volatile, and is no way to be spending your life.

Instead of sooking it up and blaming her, he needs to take responsibility here. He's made some bad choices, but they're not choices that cant be resolved with a simple property settlement, divorce and a parenting plan for the kids.
Yes, it is volatile. His solicitor is right when she told him to make sure he didn't move out entirely. If she got possession of the house with her boyfriend now, I'm 100% sure she would use it to cause trouble. So, its a sh*t choice.


I think he needs to sell up and move out. Split it up now. I can't remember what it is they signed up for, a separation agreement or something. That is what they have the house getting sold under. And that is what they are doing. House prices will plummet next year. And he needs to get away from her.


Ahh. Well, he has been suffering a bit of depression since this has blown up. No a complete breakdown, but you can see it has taken a toll on him. Last October he had his home, a wife, even though a bit distant, and three children. Now his life is turned upside down, and he says he has lost everything he worked for. He told me she is trying to replace the him with the boyfriend, even with the kids. Talking about "sooking" is a bit harsh. Get everything you have worked for for the past 10 years and lose it overnight. Then get one of your friends to walk up to you slap you in the face and tell you to snap out of it. Thats bullshit macho thinking. And coming to a bloke in his situation with that attitude will only alienate them.


I know what you are talking about, taking responsibility. Of course. He has a got a good solicitor. And I tell him to use her more often.
 

RegHickeyStand

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Nothing in the OP is gendered at all.

Brad enters a parenting plan for the children from the relationship if any (via FDR mediation if she's being stubborn), and buys her out of her share in the house (if any) from the marriage via a property settlement from the divorce, and removes her name from the deed, becoming the sole owner.

He then boots her from the house, gets on tinder and finds a better girl.

It sounds like Brad made two stupid decisions. First was marrying the wrong woman for him and the second was having her name on the deed to the property making her part owner.

Luckily for Brad, both of these decisions can be rectified via a divorce and property settlement.
They have already signed some papers for separation. Don't know what they are. And there is a agreed parenting plan that hasn't broken down as far as I know.

His worst mistake was ever meeting her. Once that happened, a guy like him - trusting and a bit naive - never stood a chance. I've seen this before. He will learn a painful lesson, and I hope he doesn't get too bitter or turn into a woman hater.
 

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The Passenger

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Ahh. Well, he has been suffering a bit of depression since this has blown up. No a complete breakdown, but you can see it has taken a toll on him. Last October he had his home, a wife, even though a bit distant, and three children. Now his life is turned upside down, and he says he has lost everything he worked for. He told me she is trying to replace the him with the boyfriend, even with the kids. Talking about "sooking" is a bit harsh. Get everything you have worked for for the past 10 years and lose it overnight.
It's a terrible situation no doubt and I can totally empathize with someone going through it.

But I agree with malifice in that's it's not a gendered thing. Both parties have equal opportunities to be manipulative assholes. Unfortunately marriage breakdown is not dissimilar to doing business and it's the nice guys who (usually) finish last in both scenarios.

I hope your mate finds some peace. My usual bounce back - a method I thoroughly recommend - involves heroic quantities of booze, drugs and - if possible - a casino, but that advice is generally frowned upon for reasons I'll never truly grasp.
 

RegHickeyStand

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I disagree. Divorce, parenting plans and property settlements are all part of the legal process.
12 months separation doesn't come up until Oct. You don't find out she is having an affair and get divorced the next day. Law doesn't work like that. And 12 months is a long time in such a sh*t storm.
 

RegHickeyStand

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It's a terrible situation no doubt and I can totally empathize with someone going through it.

But I agree with malifice in that's it's not a gendered thing. Both parties have equal opportunities to be manipulative assholes. Unfortunately marriage breakdown is not dissimilar to doing business and it's the nice guys who (usually) finish last.

I hope your mate finds some peace. My usual bounce back - a method I thoroughly recommend - involves heroic quantities of booze, drugs and - if possible - a casino, but that advice is generally frowned upon for reasons I'll never truly grasp.
It is gendered in this way. I won't go into every episode, but I am 100 percent sure she has tried to start a fight between the two men. The purpose would be to get her husband on an assault charge and have him removed from the family home. He has refused to play that game. So far. When he first came to me and told me that the guy can come into his home against his wishes, I checked with a cop mate, and he said yes. He also told me it is common work for the police to go to homes to remove husbands who are no longer allowed to be there because of domestic violence of some sort. I asked how common, he said very. And yes I know, a lot of men are jerks.



She is having a big fight with her boyfriend on the phone. Brad can hear her from the next room as she shouts down the phone at him. She goes to Brad and tells him something about it, pissing in his pocket. 20 minutes later and bf is out the front. Rachel pleads with Brad to go out there and tell bf to go away. Brad won't play the game, convinced she is setting him up. She yells at him, and storms off leaving with the boyfriend. 100%

Now, that is gender specific.
 

RegHickeyStand

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I hope your mate finds some peace. My usual bounce back - a method I thoroughly recommend - involves heroic quantities of booze, drugs and - if possible - a casino, but that advice is generally frowned upon for reasons I'll never truly grasp.
Heh. Funny you should say that. The boyfriend loves the casino. From the little I heard about him he sounds like a grifter with entitlement problems. I think the casino will swallow up her winnings from the house sale. The woman he lived with prior is chasing him up for a 5000 loan. Before that last year his flatmates took him to VCAT for 7000 bucks. Brad asked her "why don't you just ask him to get some place to rent for you?". She looked at the ground and said, he can't. Wonder why?

I have told him if he wants to see her get her karma, let lover boy do it for you. Birds of feather, and all that.
 

Malifice

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Yes, it is volatile. His solicitor is right when she told him to make sure he didn't move out entirely. If she got possession of the house with her boyfriend now, I'm 100% sure she would use it to cause trouble. So, its a sh*t choice.
Im 45 years old and I've intentionally chosen not to get married, to avoid the problem your mate currently finds himself in. Im also a solicitor who deals with Family Law.

Those two things may be connected.

This is NOT a 'gendered' problem though. Obviously his missus is a sh*t person, moving her new BF into the house shows a total lack of respect for his feelings. Ultimately (legally) she owns the house as much as he does (I presume both names are on the Deed to the property), and has as much of a right to live there as he does accordingly. That said, it's a totally sh*t thing to do to your ex partner.

It's unlikely she became a sh*t person overnight though; I hate to say it but your mate should have seen (or at least anticipated) this coming. He'll learn from this. But the situation you describe could just as easily have happened the other way around.

I dont even know why her name is on the Deed to the property (or the Mortgage), seeing as she's unemployed. It wouldnt have helped the Bank grant them the loan at all, and he was the one (from the sounds of it) that contributed all the money to the relationship. He could have protected his interests a bit better back then as well.

There is zero stopping him from negotiating a property settlement now, divorce or no divorce. He can offer to buy her out (likely at an inflated price if she's smart). He offers her slightly more than she would get in any 'formal' property settlement to buy her out early.

She would have zero reason to dig her heels in at that point, and a smart person would take the extra cash and run.
 

Malifice

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12 months separation doesn't come up until Oct. You don't find out she is having an affair and get divorced the next day. Law doesn't work like that. And 12 months is a long time in such a sh*t storm.
He doesnt have to wait 12 months for a property settlement. He could buy her out now if he chooses to, then nut the divorce out afterwards.

He'd likely have to offer more money to do so, but he should have thought of that when buying the house in the first place and put a financial agreement in place in the event of separation (these can be legally binding when done right).

She could dig her heels in, but then she gets a smaller buy out figure, which is further reduced by legal costs. Seeing as she contributed next to nothing, this means she likely gets nothing. It's in her best interests to accept an early pay out, and her lawyers would advise her accordingly.
 

RegHickeyStand

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he needs to own the separation, fault is irrelevant. He needs to either:

1) both move out and sell

2) she buys him out and he moves out

3) he buys her out and she moves out

living under the same roof as your ex is beyond stupid
He has been trying for nearly 9 months to do this. Except for moving out. His solicitor said it is not a good move to move out altogether. They alternate, 4 days. He doesn't stay there when they come back. She drags her feet on everything to do with selling. When Brad had a real estate guy over a month ago, she threw some garden refuse in the front room before she left. She has told her family, her boyfriend, her friends she wants to move on, sell. But early on she told Brad she did not want to move out, and why won't he? She wants that house. and for Brad to somehow disappear. She ain't bright, but cunning. Events are moving her along there, though. The boyfriend, her parents and friends are pressuring her to do what she pretends she wants to. lol
 

Ned_Flanders

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He has been trying for nearly 9 months to do this. Except for moving out. His solicitor said it is not a good move to move out altogether. They alternate, 4 days. He doesn't stay there when they come back. She drags her feet on everything to do with selling. When Brad had a real estate guy over a month ago, she threw some garden refuse in the front room before she left. She has told her family, her boyfriend, her friends she wants to move on, sell. But early on she told Brad she did not want to move out, and why won't he? She wants that house. and for Brad to somehow disappear. She ain't bright, but cunning. Events are moving her along there, though. The boyfriend, her parents and friends are pressuring her to do what she pretends she wants to. lol
no sh*t its a battle over real estate - its a divorce

I gave the exact same advice to a female friend of mine two months ago - for your sake and the sake of your kids, MOVE OUT NOW

if this ends up with someone stabbing someone, bullshit over a house means nothing
 

RegHickeyStand

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Im 45 years old and I've intentionally chosen not to get married, to avoid the problem your mate currently finds himself in. Im also a solicitor who deals with Family Law.

Those two things may be connected.

This is NOT a 'gendered' problem though. Obviously his missus is a sh*t person, moving her new BF into the house shows a total lack of respect for his feelings. Ultimately (legally) she owns the house as much as he does (I presume both names are on the Deed to the property), and has as much of a right to live there as he does accordingly. That said, it's a totally sh*t thing to do to your ex partner.

It's unlikely she became a sh*t person overnight though; I hate to say it but your mate should have seen (or at least anticipated) this coming. He'll learn from this. But the situation you describe could just as easily have happened the other way around.

I dont even know why her name is on the Deed to the property (or the Mortgage), seeing as she's unemployed. It wouldnt have helped the Bank grant them the loan at all, and he was the one (from the sounds of it) that contributed all the money to the relationship. He could have protected his interests a bit better back then as well.

There is zero stopping him from negotiating a property settlement now, divorce or no divorce. He can offer to buy her out (likely at an inflated price if she's smart). He offers her slightly more than she would get in any 'formal' property settlement to buy her out early.

She would have zero reason to dig her heels in at that point, and a smart person would take the extra cash and run.
How does he buy her out? The house is $650k. Where does he find 325K [edit: their equity is 230k]. I don't understand how that works.

Yes, there are men just like her. Her father is. This is history repeating itself in her family.
 
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