Society/Culture A Man's Right In A Marriage Breakdown

Snake_Baker

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They had a baby five minutes after they first met. She (Rachel) works fast. He's (Brad) a tradie now working long hours so he can buy her the Australian dream. They move in with the folks to save money. They eventually get married so she can have her wedding - another tick off the list. Finally he has enough money together to put a deposit on. And away we go! I asked Brad when he first thought it was over between them. "As soon as the door closed behind when we moved in to our new home. She went a bit strange and distant.". Well, thats what he thinks. I heard rumours from the get go. No proof. But rumours.

Let me say, she is a piece of work. When it came out she rushed over to my house when I was out. When she told my disbelieving missus what Brad was like, and when that didn't work she said, "Oh, and Brad had been cheated on before, you know." I later told my missus, "Yeah, by her!"

The boyfriend:
So they are separated living under the same roof. After a few weeks, Rachel says she wants her fella to spend the weekend with her. At the home. The home he worked his butt off for five years to get a deposit for, on one wage. Rachel wouldn't work in an iron lung. Brad was delighted with the idea. "No way! I'll smash the prick if he turns up here!"

I put it to Brad this way: she is a schemer, and the odds are she would be delighted with that and she would have you on assault. Go see the local cops and find out what rights you have. The local cops have no clue, apparently. He tells me some say yeah, the boyfriend is the odd man out and if it was getting hot and they were called in he would be asked to leave. But another said it is half her house and Brad has no right to refuse entry. What?! Go see a solicitor, I say. The second cop is right.

So this is the long and short of it. She can bring her boyfriend into the marital home. They can sleep together in the marital home. Right in front of the guy who paid for the place. He drives around in the car Brad bought for her. The boyfriend can do all that - and he does all that with Rachel's encouragement. All right in the husband's face. And here is the kick: if Brad loses it (he hasn't - so far. And she has tried to get it on), he can be banned from his own home. After all, it will be two against one on the witness stand.

The current state of play is they share the house. The lovers got somewhere to stay and Brad has it 4 days a week. Then he goes to family, and they move in for several days. Three kids in the middle of it. Charming.

I have thought about this, and it is really a primal issue. At the gym, I have held the punching bag while Brad has pounded it, and I would not like to get hit by him. He is a big strong unit. He has played a good hand so far. He hasn't lost it, yet. But the boyfriend sounds like an entitled jerk who also has a strange legal protection called, "Its half her house. She has rights, you know!"

I get the feeling it is a powderkeg waiting to be lit. I think she doesn't mind the idea. I think it is dumb law. There should be a better protection for a bloke in this situation.

The man pays the price for being gullible, and most of it comes back to the state not wanting to carry the cost of maintaining the woman and child, so it sets itself up as a "champion of women's rights"......in order to get the male to foot all of the bills.

Of course, in rare instances, the tables are turned.
 

RegHickeyStand

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The man pays the price for being gullible, and most of it comes back to the state not wanting to carry the cost of maintaining the woman and child, so it sets itself up as a "champion of women's rights"......in order to get the male to foot all of the bills.

Of course, in rare instances, the tables are turned.
Just one thing I would like changed after seeing all this: a spouse in the marital home has the right to say "no", when it comes to a boyfriend/girlfriend moving in with the other half. They should have the right to ask that party to leave. I mean, even in law it is called "the marital home".

That doesn't cost the government money.
 

Snake_Baker

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Just one thing I would like changed after seeing all this: a spouse in the marital home has the right to say "no", when it comes to a boyfriend/girlfriend moving in with the other half. They should have the right to ask that party to leave. I mean, even in law it is called "the marital home".

That doesn't cost the government money.

It's common sense & decency that shouldn't require any laws. This woman and her new man are dishonorable sniveling pieces of sh*t.

The government only cares about being seen to appease these types of women and not footing the bill for them.

As for the male "victim", I don't think he will be so gullible next time.
 

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RegHickeyStand

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It's common sense & decency that shouldn't require any laws. This woman and her new man are dishonorable sniveling pieces of sh*t.

The government only cares about being seen to appease these types of women and not footing the bill for them.

As for the male "victim", I don't think he will be so gullible next time.
One friend from, many years back. He finally split with his narcissist wife. The next thing, he brings a girlfriend over who is a replica of his missus. They leave and we are saying, "wtf was that all about?! you would think he had learned a thing!" Luckily, fate splits them up and he is on his own. And then he graduates to 'woman hater'. Total cynic about the female of the species. Some time later he finds his mate. She is a top person. I'm working late at my factory and he is helping out. I say to him - probably with memories of his first wife - "you checked to make sure its ok?" He says, "All good. She even put dinner in the fridge for me." I told him I just remember the sh*t storms caused by his first missus if he wasn't at her beck and call all the time. He said yeah, "Michelle says she can tell I'm damaged from it. So I know what you are talking about." These types train and condition a person to their will, over a long time. Living with these ppl long enough can damage a person's soul.
 
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Leeda

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One friend from, many years back. He finally split with his narcissist wife. The next thing, he brings a girlfriend over who is a replica of his missus. They leave and we are saying, "wtf was that all about?! you would think he had learned a thing!" Luckily, fate splits them up and he is on his own. And then he graduates to 'woman hater'. Total cynic about the female of the species. Some time later he finds his mate. She is a top person. I'm working late at my factory and he is helping out. I say to him - probably with memories of his first wife - "you checked to make sure its ok?" He says, "All good. She even put dinner in the fridge for me." I told him I just remember the sh*t storms caused by his first missus if he wasn't at her beck and call all the time. He said yeah, "Michelle says she can tell I'm damaged from it. So I know what you are talking about." These types train and condition a person to their will, over a long time. Living with these ppl long enough can damage a person's soul.
hey learning from your friends dire circumstance.. I think that the 'wife' is a totally judgmental and manipulative b*tch.. not helpful but impressions are
easy to make.. it don't solve the problem.. but as a female I can judge that another female is winding everyone up because she can..
 

Snake_Baker

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I don't know why people put up with it.

There's 4 billion of them on the planet, so the moment one starts acting like a diva/scam artist, then just kick her to the curb.
 

RegHickeyStand

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I don't know why people put up with it.

There's 4 billion of them on the planet, so the moment one starts acting like a diva/scam artist, then just kick her to the curb.
From the outside looking in, most of us feel that way. I have. But sometimes I think - hmmm, but for the grace of God.

Younger ppl are the most susceptible. Trusting, a bit naive. And it doesn't start day one. They can spend a long time reeling their victim in. And even when the target threatens to leave, they beg, cajol, promise to be better - anything to reel them back in. The two examples I have seen in my life (both victims were blokes), they told me "Oh yeah, they can be little angels, for a long time.", how long, I asked "A couple of years, especially when they are pregnant and the baby is new." Both of them independently said words to that effect. Weird world. And remember, no matter what the gender, the decent in the partnership person has invested a lot (their life) and has a lot to lose, so sometimes they just avoid the reality until it all blows up in their face.
 

Snake_Baker

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From the outside looking in, most of us feel that way. I have. But sometimes I think - hmmm, but for the grace of God.

Younger ppl are the most susceptible. Trusting, a bit naive. And it doesn't start day one. They can spend a long time reeling their victim in. And even when the target threatens to leave, they beg, cajol, promise to be better - anything to reel them back in. The two examples I have seen in my life (both victims were blokes), they told me "Oh yeah, they can be little angels, for a long time.", how long, I asked "A couple of years, especially when they are pregnant and the baby is new." Both of them independently said words to that effect. Weird world. And remember, no matter what the gender, the decent in the partnership person has invested a lot (their life) and has a lot to lose, so sometimes they just avoid the reality until it all blows up in their face.
How much of it is deviousness and how much of it is misunderstood entrenched biological behavior?

Speaking from the male perspective, I think it's more a matter of young males not understanding general female behavioral traits (hypergamy, Briffaults law etc.), and what drives them.

I'm sure that the same confusion arises in many young females as they grow and experience what are non intuitive behaviors that arise in men (violence, material drive, etc).

Ultimately, each male and female must decide what is the limit for each of them individually.
 

owen87

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Its basically the same advice thats on here. Solicitors aren't nice, and they don't write nice letters.
You seem to have a pre-determined idea of what you want here, even with a number of people telling you it's not a good idea.

Your mate is in a pretty sh*t situation, no doubt, but better to extricate himself from it ASAP by using the legal system to get on the front foot and control things as best he can. In the short term it might cost him a little money, and a little dignity, but in the long run it's going to be a hell of a lot better for him.

It sucks that she's bringing someone else in to the shared house, but it being 'the marital' home is irrelevant to his rights. He can bring someone over, hell he can call a different escort and bring them over every night if he really wants.

Malifice is right. Use the legal system, don't seek vengeance.
 

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Strange but interesting thread.

I've seen both men and women get the raw end of the deal when relationships go bad. The shittier party of any personal relationship usually wins irrespective of how you play it, so it's best to cut your losses and run if things go sour. When kids are involved, keep them front and center of all decisions.

Expecting life to be fair is where most people go wrong.
Summed it up in one.

It amazes me how many people can't understand this, relationships are exactly like sports betting.

Whenever you trust anyone, with money, with a shared life, to have children, you are effectively betting on them. Sometimes that bet comes off, sometimes it doesn't.

If it doesn't, rather than raging at the gods of chance, the only sensible thing to do is to cut your losses and walk away as quickly as possible. By all means protect your interests but once it's objectively clear the relationship is done, you have to take emotion out of the equation or you are inevitably going to fu** yourself over.
 

RegHickeyStand

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Strange but interesting thread.

I've seen both men and women get the raw end of the deal when relationships go bad. The shittier party of any personal relationship usually wins irrespective of how you play it, so it's best to cut your losses and run if things go sour. When kids are involved, keep them front and center of all decisions.

Expecting life to be fair is where most people go wrong.
Ah, "cut your losses". The sunk cost fallacy.

You got a relationship up and running, everything is going smooth And then, the partner starts acting like a real dick. Cut your losses, get out. But they beg you please stay. They are sorry, they don't know what came over them. Here, have some sex. All better? Give it another shot.

Everything is going fine, here comes the baby. But it doesn't last. You suspect an affair, and wtf is going on? Who was that guy on the ph?! fu** off get out of here, you are full of sh*t. Now, the guy is shattered, lost weight, does not know what the fu** just happened. But two days later it is back on the front porch with the baby. Let me in she says, I've made a terrible mistake. We have nowhere to go. Please, please. Sob sob. Hmmm, at this point all your friends and family are in your head saying, piss her off! But its your little baby kid. You let her in. No hanky panky. Sort yourself out. Its over, but you can stay here for a month to sort yourself out. Six weeks later, friends and family think you are the biggest idiot in the world. But they didn't see how she worked on you, every day, in every way, until you were back in the fold. Hard work for her this time, as you are now distrustful. Hey, but you were traumatized by all the sh*t, and she is an expert at trauma-bonding. And yes, thats a real thing. Trauma bonding. Psycho partners know all about it. And so it goes, another baby, a deposit for a house, you think all the bad sh*t is behind you, but really all you are doing is building a higher and higher wall for yourself. Life is brutal.
 

RegHickeyStand

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You seem to have a pre-determined idea of what you want here, even with a number of people telling you it's not a good idea.

Your mate is in a pretty sh*t situation, no doubt, but better to extricate himself from it ASAP by using the legal system to get on the front foot and control things as best he can. In the short term it might cost him a little money, and a little dignity, but in the long run it's going to be a hell of a lot better for him.

It sucks that she's bringing someone else in to the shared house, but it being 'the marital' home is irrelevant to his rights. He can bring someone over, hell he can call a different escort and bring them over every night if he really wants.

Malifice is right. Use the legal system, don't seek vengeance.
Ha ha. No. I change my mind a bit, depending on the news I get about that disaster. ;)
 

JCHolmes

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That 'bet' that people are talking about is alot more likley to 'lose' then to 'win' for both parties. Considering your putting everything you have on it, its quite irrational when you think about it. But thats life, one big bet. You might as well go all in at some stage. But thats for each person to decide i guess.
 

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Evolved1

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Ah, "cut your losses". The sunk cost fallacy.

You got a relationship up and running, everything is going smooth And then, the partner starts acting like a real dick. Cut your losses, get out. But they beg you please stay. They are sorry, they don't know what came over them. Here, have some sex. All better? Give it another shot.

Everything is going fine, here comes the baby. But it doesn't last. You suspect an affair, and wtf is going on? Who was that guy on the ph?! fu** off get out of here, you are full of sh*t. Now, the guy is shattered, lost weight, does not know what the fu** just happened. But two days later it is back on the front porch with the baby. Let me in she says, I've made a terrible mistake. We have nowhere to go. Please, please. Sob sob. Hmmm, at this point all your friends and family are in your head saying, piss her off! But its your little baby kid. You let her in. No hanky panky. Sort yourself out. Its over, but you can stay here for a month to sort yourself out. Six weeks later, friends and family think you are the biggest idiot in the world. But they didn't see how she worked on you, every day, in every way, until you were back in the fold. Hard work for her this time, as you are now distrustful. Hey, but you were traumatized by all the sh*t, and she is an expert at trauma-bonding. And yes, thats a real thing. Trauma bonding. Psycho partners know all about it. And so it goes, another baby, a deposit for a house, you think all the bad sh*t is behind you, but really all you are doing is building a higher and higher wall for yourself. Life is brutal.
The sunk cost fallacy is staying in a relationship when you should cut your losses and move on.

Life is brutal. Nobody finds their way through life without being wounded along the way, and most of the wounds come from those we love the most.

The wounds heal with time even if we carry some scars for life. Be well, buddy.
 

Fire

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It sounds like he is being stupid by living there. He needs to sort that out.
IDK why the OP is so floored about how things work legally in this situation. It makes perfect sense. And saying otherwise is primal is just vacuous.

Guy got taken for a ride, it ******* sucks for him. And the kids. But he's still being stupid about this.
 

Fire

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I dont even know why her name is on the Deed to the property (or the Mortgage), seeing as she's unemployed. It wouldnt have helped the Bank grant them the loan at all, and he was the one (from the sounds of it) that contributed all the money to the relationship. He could have protected his interests a bit better back then as well.
What difference would that make? They are married, it's half her house either way.


For all we know, her name isn't on the lease.
 

Malifice

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What difference would that make? They are married, it's half her house either way.
A huge difference (especially if he had have protected himself with a pre marital binding financial agreement re the property), and no it's not half her house regardless.

Division of assets on divorce doesnt work that way.
 

Fire

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A huge difference (especially if he had have protected himself with a pre marital binding financial agreement re the property), and no it's not half her house regardless.

Division of assets on divorce doesnt work that way.
Let's make the safe assumption that this guy has no prenup.

She would be entitled to half of its equity would she not?
 

Malifice

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Let's make the safe assumption that this guy has no prenup.

She would be entitled to half of its equity would she not?
Not necessarily, no. The Family Law Act states that the division of assets in a divorce must be 'just' and 'equitable'. Not 'the assets are to be split 50/50'. Heaps of stuff comes into play when dividing assets from marriage, including starting assets, current and past incomes, health and age (among other things).

If I come into a marriage and I use the equity in a property I already own to secure a loan for the marital home, and its my salary that pays for the mortgage and my (younger) wife doesnt work, then she isnt getting half that property.
 

Fire

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Not necessarily, no. The Family Law Act states that the division of assets in a divorce must be 'just' and 'equitable'. Not 'the assets are to be split 50/50'. Heaps of stuff comes into play when dividing assets from marriage, including starting assets, current and past incomes, health and age (among other things).

If I come into a marriage and I use the equity in a property I already own to secure a loan for the marital home, and its my salary that pays for the mortgage and my (younger) wife doesnt work, then she isnt getting half that property.
Interesting. That sounds grossly unfair, as a couple may agree to sacrifice a partners career to rear children, for example.

It seems the polar opposite to over here in the US where alimony payments can cripple the income earner disproportionately.
 

Chief

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Parenting plans arent legally enforceable. Parenting Orders, are.

All he needs to do is get a Form 11 from the local Family Court (application for consent orders) and get her to sign it, lodge it at the family court with the parenting plan and pay the fee, and he gets his parenting plan spat back out as Parenting Orders.

Those Orders are as enforceable as any other Court order.

His Lawyers can do this for him. She just needs to sign it.
RegHickeyStand - And he needs to follow those consent orders at all times. Don't vary them on the fly when the partner says "Johnny is having trouble at school and needs a bit more stability so he wants to stay with me for the next month or two". If you don't follow the orders, they mean nothing.
 

RegHickeyStand

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It sounds like he is being stupid by living there. He needs to sort that out.
IDK why the OP is so floored about how things work legally in this situation. It makes perfect sense. And saying otherwise is primal is just vacuous.

Guy got taken for a ride, it ******* sucks for him. And the kids. But he's still being stupid about this.
Its called the marital home for a reason. And I don't just mean in 1950's good home-keeping books. The term is a legal phrase used in Australian law today. A spouse should have rights in it. Don't you think?

Give you a scenario: guy goes to his wife, and tell her its all over. He is seeing another woman. Before she has a chance to take it in, there's a knock on the door, and there is the other woman. And her 3 kids. "Oh" says the husband, "And they are moving in with me. You can stay if you like. Its up to you, it being half your house and all. She loves cooking too, I should warn you."

Actually, that is legal. And you would support that. I wouldn't.

He has been advised by his lawyer not just to walk away from the house while he intends to sell it. And looking on over the months, I can see why, in his situation. She had been scheming to take control of the place from the get go. It was her baby, it was her wedding, its her house. That is how she thinks, and the things I have heard she has been up to bear that out.
 

RegHickeyStand

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RegHickeyStand - And he needs to follow those consent orders at all times. Don't vary them on the fly when the partner says "Johnny is having trouble at school and needs a bit more stability so he wants to stay with me for the next month or two". If you don't follow the orders, they mean nothing.
Yeah, she said last week her and her boyfriend were broke and they couldn't afford a hotel this week. He told her its not his problem he is moving back in for his 4 days and they can move out. She is very much a thin end of the wedge operator. So I get what you are saying.
 
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RegHickeyStand

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Interesting. That sounds grossly unfair, as a couple may agree to sacrifice a partners career to rear children, for example.

It seems the polar opposite to over here in the US where alimony payments can cripple the income earner disproportionately.
I don't agree with the "sacrifice" bit.

Both parties sacrifice to have children. You might have a point if the woman can prove she never wanted children and was forced into it. I'm not sure that happens too often. The reality is a split will leave both sides poorer unless one of them trades up. Then it leaves one side poorer. In the story I have related, the other guy is a moocher. So they are both poorer.
 

RegHickeyStand

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Parenting plans arent legally enforceable. Parenting Orders, are.

All he needs to do is get a Form 11 from the local Family Court (application for consent orders) and get her to sign it, lodge it at the family court with the parenting plan and pay the fee, and he gets his parenting plan spat back out as Parenting Orders.

Those Orders are as enforceable as any other Court order.

His Lawyers can do this for him. She just needs to sign it.
Unfortunately, he has no work at the moment as his employer shut down, and is working on his home trying to sell it. The boyfriend is unable to get digs (I suspect because he has a tenancy finding against him. so the scuttlebutt goes), she won't do it (clinging on to the home). So none of them have a stable abode and that would make it difficult to organize strict parenting orders and times that would stick. Where will the kids be at school next year? Where will both parties reside? I reckon things need to be settled first. I don't know.
 

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