A quick look at grass roots senior football in Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth.

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Bostonian

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Sep 9, 2015
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I would not catagorise the Bellarine FL as a "Geelong" League.
Well it is. Plenty of Geelong residents running around in the BFL.

It has Geelong Amateurs and Newcomb playing in it. GA has strong ties to Geelong College.

If they bring in the 3 league promotion/relegation model they have proposed Torquay will be in the top tier eventually.


Are their pokies the main revenue source- if not, what are the other revenue sources?
Why does the GDFL have these revenue sources, & the GFL & BFL, generally, do not?
For a lot of the clubs it's a big part of their budget no doubt.

The GDFL has it because they were run super well and they own a place called Buckley's.

They actually donated half a million dollars between all local clubs in the Geelong leagues in 2020.

Buckley's donation eases pressure on local clubs - Bellarine Times (timesnewsgroup.com.au)


IIRC, there were recently a few other Melb. WS clubs playing in Geelong Leagues eg St Albans.
Are you sure that Werribee Centrals are the sole Melb. WS club still playing in a Geelong League?
Yes. You're confusing our local St Albans with the Melbourne St Albans.

Geelong has a suburb called St Albans. It's where St Alban's Park was and it's there they hid Phar Lap before a Melbourne Cup.


Geelong Grammar & Geelong College Old Boys play in the VAFA.
Are you aware of any Geelong area teams ever playing in the WRFL (I assume they would have little regard for their personal safety)?
As mentioned Geelong College juniors are often tied to Geelong Amateurs in the BFL.

No Geelong clubs ever played in the WRFL.
 

Kwality

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Well it is. Plenty of Geelong residents running around in the BFL.

It has Geelong Amateurs and Newcomb playing in it. GA has strong ties to Geelong College.

If they bring in the 3 league promotion/relegation model they have proposed Torquay will be in the top tier eventually.




For a lot of the clubs it's a big part of their budget no doubt.

The GDFL has it because they were run super well and they own a place called Buckley's.

They actually donated half a million dollars between all local clubs in the Geelong leagues in 2020.

Buckley's donation eases pressure on local clubs - Bellarine Times (timesnewsgroup.com.au)




Yes. You're confusing our local St Albans with the Melbourne St Albans.

Geelong has a suburb called St Albans. It's where St Alban's Park was and it's there they hid Phar Lap before a Melbourne Cup.




As mentioned Geelong College juniors are often tied to Geelong Amateurs in the BFL.

No Geelong clubs ever played in the WRFL.
All AFL clubs should be putting money into local footy, Geelong :thumbsu:
 

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Kwality

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If they had similar access to young players like the clubs with academies do they probably would.
Leaders lead, see WA & SA, plenty put in by the AFL clubs & the kids go into the draft.
The real problem for most of Victoria is AFL clubs have no linked community beyond the inner city.

The BIG difference betweeen the heartland States & the developing States 100 years of junior development & the built up generations of parental support.
The AFL clubs in heartland States should not have any rights to zones.
 

Bostonian

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Sep 9, 2015
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Leaders lead, see WA & SA, plenty put in by the AFL clubs & the kids go into the draft.
The real problem for most of Victoria is AFL clubs have no linked community beyond the inner city.

The BIG difference betweeen the heartland States & the developing States 100 years of junior development & the built up generations of parental support.
The AFL clubs in heartland States should not have any rights to zones.
No clubs should have any rights to zones, zones are bullshit. It should all be ran by the AFL.

Removing the recruiting zones removed all links to the country communities for the Melbourne clubs.

No point investing heavily for the Vic clubs anymore.
 

Kwality

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No clubs should have any rights to zones, zones are bullshit. It should all be ran by the AFL.

Removing the recruiting zones removed all links to the country communities for the Melbourne clubs.

No point investing heavily for the Vic clubs anymore.
That puts the developing States at a unfair advantage to the heartland clubs. That is what many fans what, but BAD for footy nationally.
Note WA is zoned to its WAFL clubs, funded in part by the AFL clubs, & the kids go into the draft - that is a good result.
 

Bostonian

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Sep 9, 2015
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That puts the developing States at a unfair advantage to the heartland clubs. That is what many fans what, but BAD for footy nationally.
Note WA is zoned to its WAFL clubs, funded in part by the AFL clubs, & the kids go into the draft - that is a good result.
How is it at a disadvantage?

The AFL runs all junior programs and all clubs can access all players.

Fairest system there can be.


Note the two WA clubs benefit to a far greater degree then from players wanting to come back home to that state.

They only have two clubs to compete for that player.

A Victorian club will have nine other clubs to compete with.

The system works worst for Victorian clubs. So less incentive for them to put any kind of financial resources into something they may not benefit from.
 

Kwality

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How is it at a disadvantage?

The AFL runs all junior programs and all clubs can access all players.

Fairest system there can be.


Note the two WA clubs benefit to a far greater degree then from players wanting to come back home to that state.

They only have two clubs to compete for that player.

A Victorian club will have nine other clubs to compete with.

The system works worst for Victorian clubs. So less incentive for them to put any kind of financial resources into something they may not benefit from.
Not arguing that WA is better or worse off*. Both heartland States where footy is the main game, not so the developing States.

As for the AFL you only need to look at the Swans to see how they got their Academy off the ground after the AFL nothing more than 'piss & wind' (for years) into footy outside Victoria.

* we all know the national comp is unbalanced in terms of the number of clubs & player development.
 
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BringBackTorps

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(From Wookie's sports.industry.com sleuthing)

*U<#... *~(... @%!<#$




Soccer & basketball, are, of course

. very familiar sports to nearly all immigrants to Australia- as they are to all persons born in Australia.

. relatively easy games to play (at non-professional level).

. games whose rules are fairly simple to explain in any language.

. quite safe to play (excluding soccer heading of the ball/brain issues)

They will, therefore, always be the sports most to benefit if Councils' funding is primarily based on

"...a proposed new allocation policy [to] ensure inclusion & diversity for everyone in Yarra".


It should be noted that the Brunswick St Oval is officially named after Councillor W. Petersen, a Fitzroy Councillor in the 1970's.

Many believe it should be named after the 1930's Fitzroy player Hayden Bunton- the only player ever to win 3 Brownlows & 3 Sandover (WA) medals.
He is Fitzroy's greatest ever player- arguably the best in AF in Vic. history (He was actually recruited from Albury, NSW). The Council would not permit this.

.
 
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BringBackTorps

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1. Yarra Council (5/9 of the councillors are in the Greens Party) has, for several years, completely banned Richmond Snakes FC (amateurs -VAFA) from putting temporary, match day plastic banners- advertising their Sponsors- hanging off Burnley's K. Bartlett oval horizontal railings.

Even though the banners would only be up during matches, Yarra Council has totally banned them- because they claim their appearance is ugly, for a park that has a lot of trees around it.





2. Moreland Council (centred on Brunswick Coburg area) has similar political views to Yarra Council.

A new, small very attractive grandstand (beautiful timbers used, lovely patina- Vic. Mountain Ash?) has been finished by Moreland at Fleming Park, Albert St E. Brunswick, only a few weeks ago. Women's AF teams will play there. I strongly recommend, if people are in the area, to see it- it is so attractive.
The old small grandstand, from the 1930's, was not used, as it had been condemned for a long time- too dangerous.

The original plans for the grandstand was designed to have several trees inside the middle of the grandstand! With the roof, directly above the trees, fully open!
I suspect this "inside trees" design is a world first. These plans were later abandoned.

This is NOT a joke- see the original "tree grandstand" concept photos, with the trees inside the grandstand, in this link.

 
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Bunk Moreland

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There’s some shockers in local council when it comes to footy.

A few of the more recent trends:

Trying to enforce equality quotas in club roles. What planet are you people on. EVERYBODY IS A VOLUNTEER. You don’t get to choose what gender or background they are. You have to take what you can get.

Telling clubs they can’t accept sponsorships from pokies operators. Ruling out a lot of pubs, who are traditionally sponsors. It’s fine for the councils to accept their rates from pubs and clubs, of course.

Youre a landlord. Stay in your lane and mind your own fu**in business.

End rant lol.
 

BringBackTorps

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Thought I would put this here.

In Melbourne U19 & adult GR AF comps., the lack of field, boundary, & goal umpires, employed by the competition Head Office, can now probably be categorised as a crisis in 2021. (Umpire shortages have always been a problem in Melbourne at the lower Divisions).
There is a big shortage of all the 3, clubs are furious at being told late in the week that Head Office umpires can't be made available, so the club will have to find their own field, boundary, or goal Umpires.

A shout out for AF fans to consider being an umpire, to give back to our great game...a crucial role. (And yes, a reasonably thick skin is needed- but it is rare that any serious abuse etc. occurs: Order Off Rule).
Field umpires etc. appointed by the clubs always create "perception problems".

Field Umpire payments for adult men's games start from c. $115 for lower Divisions- Boundary & Goal c. $70 per game. Good chance, if a person volunteers to do 2 consecutive games, it will be granted.
The Tax Office has ruled all GR Umpire payments are tax-free, irrespective of one's income.

Novice Umpires (all will receive training during the week prior to commencement, & be accompanied on a match day by a very experienced Umpire- & first must pass a Rules' etc. Test) would, generally, start off at women's games- then only lowest U19's & lowest adult male Divisions.
Usually, an Umpire is sent to a ground no more than 30 minutes driving time from where they live.
Boundary Umpires must be fit, & Goal Umpires must have good eye sight.

In a adult male match, if not rain-affected, a Boundary Umpire will walk/jog/run c. 10kms+.

The phone no. for the VAFA (where spectators cannot legally drink alcohol during the game, whilst directly watching the game) is (03) 95376777.
Matt Dervan VAFA Umpire Co-Ordinator 0424 625423 mattdervan@vafa.com.au

For the geographically-based Leagues, contact your League's Head office.

I assume all other States have similar problems re lack of Competition Head Office Umpires.

If you wish to commence your umpiring in the jnr. comps., there are shortages there also.
 
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BringBackTorps

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1. In Melbourne, in all comps., the shortage of Umpires- particularly Field Umpires in the lower Grades- is causing serious problems.


It is my understanding that many clubs are very unhappy being informed on Thur. evening, or Friday that they will have to provide their own Field Umps. etc.- then the Secretary & President has to conduct a mad scramble to ask/cajole/bodysnatch a volunteer, who will be paid by the Club.

Also, will the central League HQ's (who are responsible for arranging & paying Umpires) waive some of their affiliation fees that Clubs pay?



2. The VAFA, with c. 14k adult male & female players (easily the biggest of the 9 adult AF comps. covering Melb.) may be having the biggest problems.
Female GR AF has exploded everywhere, but Umpire nos. have not (Even allowing for adult Umpires in Jnr Leagues now being asked to also umpire on Saturdays, for adult games- possibly another issue with the adult male "weekend warriors").

It is my understanding, from a reliable 3rd hand source, VAFA is tracking to have c. 4k female adult players in 2021- the boom is continuing, especially in the Old Boys' school clubs. In 2016, VAFA had nil.

With the shortages, should male teams have priority for VAFA umpires? And do women's games really require 2 Field Umpires- is 1 Umpire OK? Is this unfair?

Apparently, some women's teams are raising "equity" issues. Should they "kick against the pricks" (a venerable biblical expression)?



There is a documentary titled "Kicking Against The Pricks" being made on women's GR AF.

(then scroll to 10.9.20)

If anyone has film or sound footage of female GR AF prior to c. 2013 (but especially pre 1990, any medium), the doco. makers &/or Ass. Prof. R. Hess, Vic. Uni.) may seek your assistance.
 
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BringBackTorps

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There are historical records being set in the VAFA (& other comps.) for the no. of adult male GR teams some clubs are entering in 2021.

St Kevin's Old Boys has 4 U19 male teams in the VAFA in 2021, 1 U23 team, & multiple other adult male teams in multiple other Divisions of the VAFA (plus multiple female teams in the VAFAW- even though it is an all-boys' school).

AFAIK, no other GR AF clubs in Australian history have ever fielded 4 U19 teams.
Various GR AF clubs have fielded 4, or more, adult teams in 2021, & in the past (but, probably never, 4 U19 teams).

St Bernard's Old Boys has 3 U19 male teams in the VAFA, 1 U23 team, & multiple other adult male teams in multiple other Divisions in the VAFA (plus female teams in the VAFAW- another all boys' school).

Old Xavier Old Boys has 3 U19 male teams in the VAFA, 1 U23 team, & multiple adult teams in multiple other Divisions of the VAFA (plus female teams in the VAFAW- another all boys' school).

It is rare in AF history for GR AF clubs to have even 3 U19 male teams; & it is also rare in AF history for GR clubs to have 4 or more adult (not inc.U19's) male teams.
Even Australia's biggest adult GR snr club, Sydney's North Shore FC (with 440+ comp. players), has only 2 U19 male teams.

There are a some GR jnr clubs in Aust. which have c. 1000 jnr players (inc. club Auskick 5 y.o. - 8 y.o.).


Excluding Tasmania, male jnr & snr team nos. (inc club Auskick) are at record highs (excluding covid-effected 2020) in Vic., WA, SA, & ACT (but, on a per capita basis, are lower than previous eras in Vic., WA, SA, & ACT).
On raw terms & per capita terms, both male & female club, & club Auskick, nos. are at record highs (raw & per capita) in NSW, Qld, & NT.

In many rural areas, & some regional areas, of Vic., WA, SA, & Tas., some AF clubs have experienced a decline in raw nos. -mainly for economic & demographic reasons.

School male & female AF comp. nos. are also at record highs in Australia.

This AF growth has caused a serious shortage of ovals for AF clubs in Sydney & Melbourne- for matches & training. It is also predicted by Officials that Adelaide in the near future will also experience similar shortages. Umpire shortages are a worsening problem.

The recent formation of the "Parliamentary Friends of Australian Football" in NSW will, hopefully, rectify some of these problems (with "Friends" including Premier G. Berejiklian as a member, ALP Leader of the Opposition Ms. J. McKay, & c. 22 other MPs). A total of c. 50 persons attended the recent inaugural opening event in Parliament House.
The growth of GR AF & the AFL in NSW was discussed at the opening event.





EDIT:

It is interesting that some GR snr Clubs in Melb. have an unusually high ratio of male players to teams- which means many players cannot get a game every week.
These clubs have a history of success &, anecdotally, are regarded as being professional in their conduct & policies- &, importantly, having a good culture.
eg Fitzroy, in the VAFA, has 4 adult male teams (not inc. U19's): & has 119 adult (not inc. U19's) male registered players for the 4 teams.

Including its women's (jointly with the Aust. Catholic Uni.) & Masters' teams, it has c. 270 regd. adult players.
 
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TWLS

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Jul 19, 2015
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There are historical records being set in the VAFA (& other comps.) for the no. of adult male GR teams some clubs are entering in 2021.

St Kevin's Old Boys has 4 U19 male teams in the VAFA in 2021, 1 U23 team, & multiple other adult male teams in multiple other Divisions of the VAFA (plus multiple female teams in the VAFAW- even though it is an all-boys' school).

AFAIK, no other GR AF clubs in Australian history have ever fielded 4 U19 teams.
Various GR AF clubs have fielded 4, or more, adult teams in 2021, & in the past (but, probably never, 4 U19 teams).

St Bernard's Old Boys has 3 U19 male teams in the VAFA, 1 U23 team, & multiple other adult male teams in multiple other Divisions in the VAFA (plus female teams in the VAFAW- another all boys' school).

Old Xavier Old Boys has 3 U19 male teams in the VAFA, 1 U23 team, & multiple adult teams in multiple other Divisions of the VAFA (plus female teams in the VAFAW- another all boys' school).

It is rare in AF history for GR AF clubs to have even 3 U19 male teams; & it is also rare in AF history for GR clubs to have 4 or more adult (not inc.U19's) male teams.
Even Australia's biggest adult GR snr club, Sydney's North Shore FC (with 440+ comp. players), has only 2 U19 male teams.
There are a some GR jnr clubs in Aust. which have c. 1000 jnr players (inc. club Auskick 5 y.o. - 8 y.o.).


Excluding Tasmania, male jnr & snr team nos. (inc club Auskick) are at record highs (excluding covid-effected 2020) in Vic., WA, SA, & ACT (but, on a per capita basis, are lower than previous eras in Vic., WA, SA, & ACT).
On raw terms & per capita terms, both male & female club, & club Auskick, nos. are at record highs (raw & per capita) in NSW, Qld, & NT.

In many rural areas, & some regional areas, of Vic., WA, SA, & Tas., some AF clubs have experienced a decline in raw nos. -mainly for economic & demographic reasons.

School male & female AF comp. nos. are also at record highs in Australia.

This AF growth has caused a serious shortage of ovals for AF clubs in Sydney & Melbourne- for matches & training. It is also predicted by Officials that Adelaide in the near future will also experience similar shortages. Umpire shortages are a worsening problem.

The recent formation of the "Parliamentary Friends of Australian Football" in NSW will, hopefully, rectify some of these problems (with "Friends" including Premier G. Berejiklian as a member, ALP Leader of the Opposition Ms. J. McKay, & c. 22 other MPs). A total of c. 50 persons attended the recent inaugural opening event in Parliament House.
The growth of GR AF & the AFL in NSW was discussed at the opening event.





EDIT:

It is interesting that some GR snr Clubs in Melb. have an unusually high ratio of male players to teams- which means many players cannot get a game every week.
These clubs have a history of success &, anecdotally, are regarded as being professional in their conduct & policies- &, importantly, having a good culture.
eg Fitzroy, in the VAFA, has 4 adult male teams (not inc. U19's): & has 119 adult male registered players.

Including its women's (jointly with the Aust. Catholic Uni.) & Masters' teams, it has c. 270 regd. adult players.
 

TWLS

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Jul 19, 2015
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WA
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GWS Giants
On raw terms & per capita terms, both male & female club, & club Auskick, nos. are at record highs (raw & per capita) in NSW, Qld, & NT.

IMHO for penetration into NSW and QLD these are a very important figures. It shows historically that coming off a low base the growth is continuing despite obstacles such as playing facilties and public awareness. The current younger generations are slowly realising there is an alternative to the English Codes. The days of the label GayFL are long gone.
However the MSM up there is the last bastion of the Rugby,Soccer Codes and will remain so for the future.
 

BringBackTorps

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Whilst the OP writer only analysed the heartland GR metro areas of Melbourne, Adelaide, & Perth, I believe it is also crucial to consider the other heartland -Tasmania. In the AFL Hall Of Fame, & AFL Team Of The Century, Tas., on a per capita basis, is well overrepresented.
It was, & still is, crucial to GR AF, the old VFL, & now the AFL. In the glorious echelons & legends of AF Australia-wide, Tasmania's AF history is so fabled that it deserves a seat at the front table.

I will concentrate only on the Hobart, Launceston, & the NW main "metro" comps.
Tas. is a unique AF heartland, because Hobart has less than half the State's total population. Historically, the NTFA (Launceston area) & NWFU (North West area), when combined, were roughly equal to the TFL (Hobart)- re total crowds, & amount of champions & stars produced.

The link below is a depressing, but detailed, analysis of the state of male GR club nos. in Tas. (Contact female club & school nos. have boomed in Tas. since 2018).

 
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Bunk Moreland

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Sep 22, 2011
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There are historical records being set in the VAFA (& other comps.) for the no. of adult male GR teams some clubs are entering in 2021.

St Kevin's Old Boys has 4 U19 male teams in the VAFA in 2021, 1 U23 team, & multiple other adult male teams in multiple other Divisions of the VAFA (plus multiple female teams in the VAFAW- even though it is an all-boys' school).

AFAIK, no other GR AF clubs in Australian history have ever fielded 4 U19 teams.
Various GR AF clubs have fielded 4, or more, adult teams in 2021, & in the past (but, probably never, 4 U19 teams).

St Bernard's Old Boys has 3 U19 male teams in the VAFA, 1 U23 team, & multiple other adult male teams in multiple other Divisions in the VAFA (plus female teams in the VAFAW- another all boys' school).

Old Xavier Old Boys has 3 U19 male teams in the VAFA, 1 U23 team, & multiple adult teams in multiple other Divisions of the VAFA (plus female teams in the VAFAW- another all boys' school).

It is rare in AF history for GR AF clubs to have even 3 U19 male teams; & it is also rare in AF history for GR clubs to have 4 or more adult (not inc.U19's) male teams.
Even Australia's biggest adult GR snr club, Sydney's North Shore FC (with 440+ comp. players), has only 2 U19 male teams.

There are a some GR jnr clubs in Aust. which have c. 1000 jnr players (inc. club Auskick 5 y.o. - 8 y.o.).
Huge numbers for some school clubs. Not sure what it means overall though. It makes it a bit sad that there’s good local footy clubs that struggle for U19 and even senior numbers in comparison. I mean if you look at the Southern FL - the closest suburban league to the VAFA in a geographic sense - only 10 of the 36 clubs have U19 sides. It can’t bode well for the future.

There’s probably an argument for levelling things out a bit. I mean really, what do these leagues want... whole divisions made up of “teams” from one club?
 

Walshawk

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Mar 24, 2017
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Hawthorn
There are historical records being set in the VAFA (& other comps.) for the no. of adult male GR teams some clubs are entering in 2021.

St Kevin's Old Boys has 4 U19 male teams in the VAFA in 2021, 1 U23 team, & multiple other adult male teams in multiple other Divisions of the VAFA (plus multiple female teams in the VAFAW- even though it is an all-boys' school).

AFAIK, no other GR AF clubs in Australian history have ever fielded 4 U19 teams.
Various GR AF clubs have fielded 4, or more, adult teams in 2021, & in the past (but, probably never, 4 U19 teams).

St Bernard's Old Boys has 3 U19 male teams in the VAFA, 1 U23 team, & multiple other adult male teams in multiple other Divisions in the VAFA (plus female teams in the VAFAW- another all boys' school).

Old Xavier Old Boys has 3 U19 male teams in the VAFA, 1 U23 team, & multiple adult teams in multiple other Divisions of the VAFA (plus female teams in the VAFAW- another all boys' school).

It is rare in AF history for GR AF clubs to have even 3 U19 male teams; & it is also rare in AF history for GR clubs to have 4 or more adult (not inc.U19's) male teams.
Even Australia's biggest adult GR snr club, Sydney's North Shore FC (with 440+ comp. players), has only 2 U19 male teams.

There are a some GR jnr clubs in Aust. which have c. 1000 jnr players (inc. club Auskick 5 y.o. - 8 y.o.).


Excluding Tasmania, male jnr & snr team nos. (inc club Auskick) are at record highs (excluding covid-effected 2020) in Vic., WA, SA, & ACT (but, on a per capita basis, are lower than previous eras in Vic., WA, SA, & ACT).
On raw terms & per capita terms, both male & female club, & club Auskick, nos. are at record highs (raw & per capita) in NSW, Qld, & NT.

In many rural areas, & some regional areas, of Vic., WA, SA, & Tas., some AF clubs have experienced a decline in raw nos. -mainly for economic & demographic reasons.

School male & female AF comp. nos. are also at record highs in Australia.

This AF growth has caused a serious shortage of ovals for AF clubs in Sydney & Melbourne- for matches & training. It is also predicted by Officials that Adelaide in the near future will also experience similar shortages. Umpire shortages are a worsening problem.

The recent formation of the "Parliamentary Friends of Australian Football" in NSW will, hopefully, rectify some of these problems (with "Friends" including Premier G. Berejiklian as a member, ALP Leader of the Opposition Ms. J. McKay, & c. 22 other MPs). A total of c. 50 persons attended the recent inaugural opening event in Parliament House.
The growth of GR AF & the AFL in NSW was discussed at the opening event.





EDIT:

It is interesting that some GR snr Clubs in Melb. have an unusually high ratio of male players to teams- which means many players cannot get a game every week.
These clubs have a history of success &, anecdotally, are regarded as being professional in their conduct & policies- &, importantly, having a good culture.
eg Fitzroy, in the VAFA, has 4 adult male teams (not inc. U19's): & has 119 adult (not inc. U19's) male registered players for the 4 teams.

Including its women's (jointly with the Aust. Catholic Uni.) & Masters' teams, it has c. 270 regd. adult players.
Pretty sure that 20 year olds are permitted to play U19s this year due to missing last year with COVID. If so, these figures are misleading and meaningless.
 

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