A reality check

[CrippsonBlue]

May as well say lets wait until the end of the year, as after that "pretty decent run" we have a "tough" run home. So if after round 13 we are in the top 4 will you bump this and point and say "see.....I told you"

Everything I have been saying is with Round 22 in mind.

If we are top 4 at Round 13 it obviously doesn't prove anything, however it will give us every chance to finish top 4 at season's end, which was my point.

It is funny that you suggest that I may bump this thread prematurely to prove a point, yet it is you who has quoted me the current round 7 ladder to try and prove your point

In actual fact, you've proved my point in doing this - the ladder constantly changes, as do the teams that make up the top 4. You rationale is simply that the top 4 teams are those that currently fill the spots on the ladder - I am claiming that we have every chance to fill a spot at some point, so therefore, by your rationale, we could be a top 4 team this year.

Interesting statement. Adelaide were clearly a better team than us last year. What does that count for?

It is easier to go backwards, than forward.

The Crows have taken a step backwards this year, whereas we have not - I therefore don't see the comparison with us and the Crows, to say us and Freo.

Until the season has finished, Sydney and Freo are yet to prove anything.

Current ladder position means nothing.

Being a top 4 side usually means you have been consistent throughout the season, generally beating those teams below you consistently, and having close contests with those above you

Does it?

I've already highlighted us last year as almost playing our final game for a top 4 spot. I don't see how what you say could have applied to us, anymore than it would this year.

I also highlighted the Saints the year before - it didn't apply to them either.

So far we have beaten two of those above us......yet.....two of our three losses come from teams sitting below us, one of whom is bound it seems for the bottom 4.

That's inconsistency for you.

Top 4 sides still lose to quality teams - Brisbane are a quality team.

Top 4 sides still have bogey teams - to simply reference us, I highlight the Dogs, and dare I say, the Cats as examples

The Bombers are clearly our bogey side, so it is not simply a matter of looking at whether the team is below you or not.

Don't get me wrong BB, I don't have my head in the sand, and I don't think we are bound for anything yet. You are quoting age etc though, and are acting as though these things mean our seasons fate has already been set in stone. It hasn't, anything can happen, we currently have every chance to finish top 4, and I believe we are capable of doing so - without luck!

 

[Bluebear]

Don't get me wrong BB, I don't have my head in the sand, and I don't think we are bound for anything yet. You are quoting age etc though, and are acting as though these things mean our seasons fate has already been set in stone. It hasn't, anything can happen, we currently have every chance to finish top 4, and I believe we are capable of doing so - without luck!

I think maybe you are taking what I said a little too far, or I haven't been clear enough.

The point of this thread, and my comments re "not a genuine top 4 side" are based on now......today....this week, in a response to the multiple threads started, initially after the Pies loss, to say we aren't really that bad, and then after the Saints win to say we aren't really that good.

Just trying to level out the manic nature iof sentiment on the board.

If we show over the next 8 weeks that we can achieve that consistency, in which case we should win the next 5 games then yes, that IS the form of a top 4 side.........and I for one will be surprised. If on the other hand we lose a few that we really, based on our form in the last month, should win, then that ISN'T the form of a top 4 side.

That was my point. Not that we aren't right now, or whether we have the capacity to become one, even as soon as this year.

I guess history suggest that with our youth, we are unlikely to achieve that consistency this year, but I'm not saying for a minute its impossible.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

The next 3-4 weeks are the real statement of where we are at - more so than the wins over Cats/Saints.

There is a lot to take from beating Geelong/Saints and it represents decent progress, but being honest, neither of those teams rated us high enough to turn up 100% switched on. We got the jump on both teams - same as the bombers jumped us with a different intensity level! Cats/Saints didn't consider us enough of a threat and got beat for their slight! I'm sure if we played them the following week in a return match you'd see a different Cats/Saints outfit turn up.

To frank the Geelong/Saints credits earnt, we need to win 3/4 of the next 4, all winnable games! If we go 2/2 vs Port, WCE, Dees, and Hawks, then that represents a pretty average output and shows we are 1) very good at snipering top teams when they are not fired up, and 2) in the mix for the 8, but nothing more than that.

Overall, i'm stoked with how we are progressing. Given the Fev deal, we are outperforming most expert pundits expectations!

 

[40yearBLUE]

The next 3-4 weeks are the real statement of where we are at - more so than the wins over Cats/Saints.

There is a lot to take from beating Geelong/Saints and it represents decent progress, but being honest, neither of those teams rated us high enough to turn up 100% switched on. We got the jump on both teams - same as the bombers jumped us with a different intensity level! Cats/Saints didn't consider us enough of a threat and got beat for their slight! I'm sure if we played them the following week in a return match you'd see a different Cats/Saints outfit turn up.

To frank the Geelong/Saints credits earnt, we need to win 3/4 of the next 4, all winnable games! If we go 2/2 vs Port, WCE, Dees, and Hawks, then that represents a pretty average output and shows we are 1) very good at snipering top teams when they are not fired up, and 2) in the mix for the 8, but nothing more than that.

Overall, i'm stoked with how we are progressing. Given the Fev deal, we are outperforming most expert pundits expectations!

Oh Please! Spare us your back handed compliments. I mean really, there is just no pleasing some people. FFS. We beat them with our game plan and somehow you find a way to diminish that with, and I quote "but being honest, neither of those teams rated us high enough to turn up 100% switched on".

Do us all a favor and jump on Adelaide or Port or wherever it was Talia ended up. You are a joke of a poster. I treated some of your posts with contempt in the past, I treat this one with UTTER contempt. The same contempt you seem to hold our club.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Welcome back 30yb

 

[Sin City]

but being honest, neither of those teams rated us high enough to turn up 100% switched on.

What evidence have got that weren't switched on? We outplayed them, fair and square. Have a look at the games Ablett and Hayes played, these teams threw everything at us but we rose to the challenge. Their mistakes came from our intense pressure, not because they weren't switched on.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Welcome back 30yb

MEH.

Una Memento old chum.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

What evidence have got that weren't switched on? We outplayed them, fair and square. Have a look at the games Ablett and Hayes played, these teams threw everything at us but we rose to the challenge. Their mistakes came from our intense pressure, not because they weren't switched on.

I suppose everyone sees something different when watching a game. I saw Ablett try his arse off. The problem is I didnt many other Geelong players fight to hard for the ball.

But if you did, then that's fine. 22 rounds will show where we are at, but like i have said, we are def ahead of where most pundits had us.

 

[CrippsonBlue]

I think maybe you are taking what I said a little too far, or I haven't been clear enough

I probably am.

I just see our team though, and I think we are so close to everything just clicking at any moment.

I don't think as supporters we should exaggerate where we are at, but we should also not underestimate our potential either.

We can finish top 4, now more so than ever with an even comp. Maybe forgetting obstacles such as age/inconsistency, and lifting expectations, both players and supporters, isn't such a bad thing.

We won't just magically fall into the top 4 when our players hit a certain age, and our odds are only going to decrease with the extra teams. There will always be obstacles, and at some point the players are going to have to take responsibility, and find something extra week in, week out.

I don't see why that can't happen now.

 

[Sin City]

I suppose everyone sees something different when watching a game. I saw Ablett try his arse off. The problem is I didnt many other Geelong players fight to hard for the ball.

One of our blokes got a broken collar bone because of the way they were contesting the ball. They were trying everything including making their second best (Selwood) player do a tagging job. They had a dip, we beat them for pace. Do you think Byrnes layed down or was Armfield just to fast and playing him too tight? Cameron Mooney never lays down, Jamison was just too good for him. Their game plan revolves around good skills and quick ball movement, we didn't allow them to play their game. Give our boys some credit.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Ok, Sin, Geelong were ferocious, played on edge footy and we smashed them easily!

Looks like we are a moral for the flag then.

 

[Sin City]

Ok, Sin, Geelong were ferocious, played on edge footy and we smashed them easily!

Looks like we are a moral for the flag then.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Why bother Sin, the post was an obvious troll and the bloke an obvious t**l.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Why bother Sin, the post was an obvious troll and the bloke an obvious t**l.

That is pretty harsh given what i have said through my posts 30yb. I just didnt see the cats/saints put in the same effort as we did. Of course, if we focus on the Blues only in those matches, we couldnt be prouder, they laid everything on the line and played incredibly well. In game analysis, i tend to focus on both teams to determine where we stand - nothing trollish about that.

Tool/troll should be reserved for more damning comments than I have uttered 30yb. Just pull back a little and say, crap, you're wrong. It becomes hard to equate your moral slanted posts of pre-season where you take the high ground then resort to personal name calling (the moral low ground).

If you read back carefully, you have gone a bit too hard on the man!

 

[Dramoth]

That is pretty harsh given what i have said through my posts 30yb. I just didnt see the cats/saints put in the same effort as we did. Of course, if we focus on the Blues only in those matches, we couldnt be prouder, they laid everything on the line and played incredibly well. In game analysis, i tend to focus on both teams to determine where we stand - nothing trollish about that.

Tool/troll should be reserved for more damning comments than I have uttered 30yb. Just pull back a little and say, crap, you're wrong. It becomes hard to equate your moral slanted posts of pre-season where you take the high ground then resort to personal name calling (the moral low ground).

If you read back carefully, you have gone a bit too hard on the man!

go hard at the man when he has the ball... best way to force a free kick and a turnover

 

[40yearBLUE]

That is pretty harsh given what i have said through my posts 30yb. I just didnt see the cats/saints put in the same effort as we did. Of course, if we focus on the Blues only in those matches, we couldnt be prouder, they laid everything on the line and played incredibly well. In game analysis, i tend to focus on both teams to determine where we stand - nothing trollish about that.

Tool/troll should be reserved for more damning comments than I have uttered 30yb. Just pull back a little and say, crap, you're wrong. It becomes hard to equate your moral slanted posts of pre-season where you take the high ground then resort to personal name calling (the moral low ground).

If you read back carefully, you have gone a bit too hard on the man!

No, I havent. I was not happy when you bagged our recruiting, but we had improved only a little so I understood to an extent the frustrations of bombing out of our first final in a long time after being so far in front, so I tempered my annoyance with an understanding of that in the background. And I have seen others bag our poor performances and bag the coach and bag this player or that, and again, given our poor performance you can see a little emotion coming in over the top of logic.

BUT what I cant stomach, is so called supporters giving us a kick while we're up! Get over yourself you tool. The club did very well in the past fortnight, and it had nothing to do with clubs disrespecting us with second rate effort or laying down for us. In fact go post that on the Saints or Cats boards and see what sort of reception you get. They are proud clubs that lay down for no one. We are developing a new game, a multi dimensional game, and are weeks if not months ahead of the curve on it, and you still want to have a go.

Tell it to the hand.

Take it to the Talia board.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Not worth going any further because it has no merit. I can see your point.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Not worth going any further because it has no merit. I can see your point.

And you can take your parole board acceptance of my arguments with you.

Come back when you have something constructive to say.

Talk about starting your day with a bad taste in your mouth, sheesh.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Thanks 30yb. You are a great man!

 

[tigers4spoon08]

bluebear speaking trash again.
we are a top 4 side, end of story.

 

[40yearBLUE]

bluebear speaking trash again.
we are a top 4 side, end of story.

Steady on there. If you read BB post he is cautious as opposed to the ott posts some of us me included tend to post after such a fantastic win. I have posted a few times that before we can truly boast that claim we have to put away the Essendons of the game, we have to beat sides that are well below us. We have shown we are capable of matching it with the best teams, the Collingwood loss was a downer but not as much concern to me as the Essendon loss.

But I think we are nearly there, I do the ladder predictor each week and if current form was to continue I reckon we might play Freo in Rd22 for a top 4 spot. I keep thinking they (Freo) will start to drop away but so far they have kept up their run. I hope they smash the Pies this week. If they do we have to start to figure them as a genuine top 4 contender. Many thought Brisbane would be top 4 this year, but with injury and form they have dropped away but are still capable, the dogs, pies, cats, and saints are all still contenders, so with the Swans and Freo up there too, 7 or 8 teams into 4 dont go. And who know, Port might even be fair dinkum this year too, although I doubt it.

So steady on there with the trash talk.

 

[Blue Bawls]

bluebear speaking trash again.
we are a top 4 side, end of story.

Source?

 

[thylacine60]

bluebear speaking trash again.
we are a top 4 side, end of story.

You disrespecting my family?

 

[Bluebear]

Just in case you guys missed the key points, after today........

I think there have been some interesting comments about our team since the start of the year and we have had a reality check.

So lets clear up a few things:

• We are NOT a top 4 side.
• 3 of our 6 forwards have less than 20 games experience, and our best forward has played less than 10 games as a forward - the fact we are kicking winning scores is nothing short of amazing and should be acknowledged.
• Our midfield and small forwards didn't play well yesterday, and they ARE experienced enough to do better. Judd, Gibbs, Murphy, Russell, Betts, Armifield, Carrazzo, Simpson........

Two parts of our game plan need to improve if we are to take the next step:

• We snuck into the 8 last year with a win over an undermanned and injured Geelong, lost our FF (Fev), good ball carrier and skillful mid (Stevo) and CHB (counting Waite out for the first 6 rounds as a CHB). Realistically we weren't going to "take a step" into the Top 4, but we may well go backwards. We are on track to play finals.

As a young side we will be inconsistent.

Our best will beat the best, but we need to iron out the worst, and that comes with time and expereince.

Deal with it.

Anyone with any lingering doubts?
Tigers4spoon08? Anything you'd like to add?

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Agree with all of that Bluebear. But how correct it looks seems to change dramatically from week to week a little

If we win our next 3 which are all winnable, we will def be in the mix for top 4.

I'd still prefer us winning the expected games over the upset games to have a better idea of where we really stand. Bombers/Hawks are games I'd like to win but we got caught out on intensity. We caught a few other teams on the hop and won games. We really need to see more games when both sides turn up 100% to see if we are 8-10, 5-8, or maybe a top 4 side.