Roast A reflection of where Pie fans think their club is really at. It's not positive.

Are you happy with we're the club is at?

  • Yes

    Votes: 14 12.4%
  • No

    Votes: 92 81.4%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 7 6.2%

  • Total voters
    113

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Carringbush2010

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Jun 6, 2016
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I don't think you should take the immediate post-game reactions after a finals loss as a reflection of the vast majority of fans think of the club, particularly when it comes from the resident rocket scientists here at BigFooty.

This place is toxic as all hell in the days after a loss. No doubt people are frustrated, in some cases rightfully so, but people here veer towards doom and gloom more often than not.
After last nights game? That's where the frustration lies? Nah mate, the frustration lies in the perpetual tease but never pleased - this is not off one game, the frustration has been for decades.
 

TKiL

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Actually the frustration is that we've had enough eras to have more flags - much more. Since 58

64-66 no flag
77-81 no flag
88-90 1 flag
02-03 no flag
09-12 1 flag

That last - even for us should've had at least 1 more flag in it.

We've played in 27 GF losses, only two clubs have played more GF's than we've lost. The blose and the bomb outs. We've played 14 more GF's than the next closest. We should have at least another 10 in the cabinet on those numbers - at the very least. We've had 44 chances for only 15 successes.

There's your frustration.
I know that only too well :( - lost nearly x2 no of GFs that we've won

I have spelt that sad stat out on here a few times

Just don't get those posters who say making finals is success in itself

Spot the success here...

1602450530052.png


some luck, umpires etc .......... but they ain't flags!!
 

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Carringbush2010

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I know that only too well :( - lost nearly x2 no of GFs that we've won

I have spelt that sad stat out on here a few times

Just don't get those posters who say making finals is success in itself

Spot the success here...

View attachment 983186

some luck, umpires etc .......... but they ain't flags!!
I'd very surprised if overall the general consensus is satisfaction from the Pie faithful. :(
 

jackcass

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I'm disappointed our 2020 campaign petered out the way it did but I remain positive that we'll remain in the hunt for a flag going forward. I know that's not sufficient for some, but you've got to be in it to win it. Given the myriad of issues thrown at us in 2020, I also rate it a successful season, definitely something to build on for 2021.
 

jackcass

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I'd very surprised if overall the general consensus is satisfaction from the Pie faithful. :(
Depends when you ask. If you had of asked last week, they were all pretty satisfied I'd guess, ask this week and you'll get the opposite response, ask in a couple of months and I'd have thought it would be much more balanced.
 

peter9789

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Aug 25, 2009
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You are totally right mate , many of our fans that see things in rainbow coloured glasses honestly believe by trading for a Ben Brown were right back in the premiership race which is further from the truth. A trade like that will only prolong our stay in the 8 as a team just making up the numbers for the next 5 years.
Buckley has been a champion at the club, however he has been our coach since 2012 how much longer can we give him? he has failed as a coach.

Even looking at our football department they have given away 4 first round draft picks for Treloar and Beams trading our future away.
Not only that as a hole we probably have the worse group of key positional players in the AFL , take away Moore Grundy and young Will Kelly there realistically is nothing there? The rest of our key positional players are from other sports or journey men on the decline like Roughead and dunn.
Realistically we need a new coach a fresh approach with sweeping changes in the football department also.

We need to take 2 or 3 steps backwards to go 10 steps forward , which could mean trading a Degoey Sidebottom players that can land us first round draft picks and in Degoeys case depending on supply and demand possibly multiple first rounders. and firstly address our problems with talls via the draft.

If we need to pick up experience players it has to be done through free agency were you dont give away draft picks, also players like varcoe greenwood dunn roughead mayne just to name a few need to be shown the door, players like Josh Thomas you can find a 21 or 22 year old with upside to play his role?
If we can trade or get rid of players like will hoskin elliot it would also be a bonus.

We all know this wont happen the club will sale us hope people most of us will fall for it, Maguire desperation for Buckley to taste success will lead us in to trading early draft picks our future for players like Ben Brown and some forward pocket 27 or 28 year old that a opposition club wants to get rid off , most of us will then be content until the sh*t hits the fan again this time next year.
I don't disagree with your sentiments here (mostly).

I wont dwell on Bucks as coach as there are plenty of threads elsewhere for that. I do want to take up the issue of our list management strategy which you raised as I think this has been our Achilles heel for many years.

These have been the issues in my mind
  • Retention of injury prone players year on year - Broomhead, Reid, Dunne, Scharenberg, Elliott, Wells, Langdon, Sier et al
  • Trading in of Beams for 1st round picks - I know its not as cut and dried as I make it seem - but this has been a disaster
  • Trading in complete hacks from other clubs - Jordan Russell, Jesse White, Quentin Lynch - yes we have had some wins coming back the other way Howe for example
  • We don't address our structural weaknesses - no KPF for example - lots of flankers.
  • What's the strategy to replace Pendles and Sidey as they near the end of their career.
  • There is a lack of boldness in being prepared to give up some quality to get the right quality back in. For example if we traded Grundy last year we would have been able to trade pretty high up in last years super draft and potentially landed one of the King Bros. There's the fix for out KPF for the next 10 years. Pinch a ruckman from another club or develop Cameron / Lynch
I suspect not much will change in our club while Eddie remains in charge
 

Carringbush2010

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Depends when you ask. If you had of asked last week, they were all pretty satisfied I'd guess, ask this week and you'll get the opposite response, ask in a couple of months and I'd have thought it would be much more balanced.
If you asked last week about last week or this week about this week you'll get the expected response. If you ask in a couple of months that doesn't change what has happened on field. We missed the cup - again.

The post you replied to is about the continual hope and disappointment that follows.
 

jackcass

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If you asked last week about last week or this week about this week you'll get the expected response. If you ask in a couple of months that doesn't change what has happened on field. We missed the cup - again.

The post you replied to is about the continual hope and disappointment that follows.
Disappointments come, disappointments go. If the only thing about football that brings you hope and joy is silverware, then I genuinely feel sorry for you. I'd assume you're in the minority despite your claims.
 

domus

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I'm disappointed our 2020 campaign petered out the way it did but I remain positive that we'll remain in the hunt for a flag going forward. I know that's not sufficient for some, but you've got to be in it to win it. Given the myriad of issues thrown at us in 2020, I also rate it a successful season, definitely something to build on for 2021.
But the same issues arise every year. Why do people seem to believe things are going to be different? For over a decade now we have had long term injuries to key players or off field issues which have distracted and impacted our list. I love the revisionists who tell us we were never a chance this year when at various stages we were flag favourites. I have no doubt the inner sanctum truly believed we were a chance to go all the way after our epic win in Perth. Suddenly, after our dismal, insipid performance on Saturday night we were cooked, burnt out, never a realistic chance and only dumb, ignorant Collingwood fans could have believed we were any chance to win against Geelong, let alone win the flag.

This has been a pattern for years. I still remember Tony Shaw talking us up when we sat on top after nine rounds in his first year I think. As we dropped down the ladder with each passing week he began bagging the support base and their unrealistic expectations and over rating our list........ Same old story.

All year the players and Buckley never once shied away from our ambition to win the flag this year and they said so on the record on multiple occasions. Now it's we the fans who are deluded and ridiculous for daring to have the same expectation.

We've been "in it" up to our eyeballs for decades and have two flags to show for it. One more than the Dogs and Saints in a period of sixty years. But for the one lucky bounce we got to favour us in a grand final we would be level with the two clubs regarded by most as the most unsuccessful in our competition.

How dare we express frustration, anger or disillusionment!
 

Carringbush2010

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Disappointments come, disappointments go. If the only thing about football that brings you hope and joy is silverware, then I genuinely feel sorry for you. I'd assume you're in the minority despite your claims.
Why is it that immediately you come to the conclusion that I think only cups bring joy?

It's not the only thing that brings joy, it's the frustration of always contending and never getting the chocolates. I've seen 8 losses 2 draws and 2 wins in my time. You can't tell me that isn't frustrating. It's forever teasing but rarely pleasing.

If cups were the only thing to hang your hat on as a supporter then I imagine there wouldn't be many of us, we'd be a St Kilda or Dogs because the form lines are similar in that regard.
 
Last edited:

workhorse

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I don't disagree with your sentiments here (mostly).

I wont dwell on Bucks as coach as there are plenty of threads elsewhere for that. I do want to take up the issue of our list management strategy which you raised as I think this has been our Achilles heel for many years.

These have been the issues in my mind
  • Retention of injury prone players year on year - Broomhead, Reid, Dunne, Scharenberg, Elliott, Wells, Langdon, Sier et al
  • Trading in of Beams for 1st round picks - I know its not as cut and dried as I make it seem - but this has been a disaster
  • Trading in complete hacks from other clubs - Jordan Russell, Jesse White, Quentin Lynch - yes we have had some wins coming back the other way Howe for example
  • We don't address our structural weaknesses - no KPF for example - lots of flankers.
  • What's the strategy to replace Pendles and Sidey as they near the end of their career.
  • There is a lack of boldness in being prepared to give up some quality to get the right quality back in. For example if we traded Grundy last year we would have been able to trade pretty high up in last years super draft and potentially landed one of the King Bros. There's the fix for out KPF for the next 10 years. Pinch a ruckman from another club or develop Cameron / Lynch
I suspect not much will change in our club while Eddie remains in charge
Not disagreeing with your post but a slight inaccuracy here. The SuperDraft you reference, including Walsh, Smith, King bros, Rankine, Lukosious etc., was the 2018 draft. If we traded Grundy when you say we would've ended up in the 2019 draft. Now there's still been some seriously good young players emerge from that already - Rowell, Anderson, Serong etc. but nothing compared to 2018, yet.
 

Carringbush2010

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How dare we express frustration, anger or disillusionment!
This is what I find frustrating among Pie fans not only on this board but in life in general. Any constructive criticism or a show of frustration about our performance as a football club (or what it should be gauged at) then you're not a supporter - you're a pessimist.

I'm also saddened by the many fans who view GF appearances as the ultimate success, it's like if you mention other teams successes in eras or even dynasties it's like they block the ears and go 'la la la la la la la' trying to ignore a competitors much better success and hang the hat on how many times we've got to the big dance.

As the op of this thread, I'm not unhappy with how many finals and GF's we've played and won - it is intimidating and the numbers are heady. I'm unhappy with the amount of wasted opportunities. This snippet is damning, only 2 clubs have played more GF's than we've lost! We should have at the very least 10 more cups in the cabinet on those numbers.

1602557852490.png
 

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Carringbush2010

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I'm disappointed our 2020 campaign petered out the way it did but I remain positive that we'll remain in the hunt for a flag going forward. I know that's not sufficient for some, but you've got to be in it to win it. Given the myriad of issues thrown at us in 2020, I also rate it a successful season, definitely something to build on for 2021.
I gave this a like, purely on the resilient thinking. Kudos to all the fans who never ever give up hope and are proud of the perpetual contention.

Am I proud of that forever contending? Yes. But I'm also equally frustrated of that contending baring little fruit.

I like to point out the facts of our record over the course of the competition and more so in my lifetime, other Pie brethren like to label that as pessimism, when really it is just frustration. Doesn't make me any less of a supporter, as much as my fact telling and frustration is not palatable to other Pie faithful.

I'll go around again next year, pony up for a membership in the continued belief the club will win it.

If there is one success of this club is it's fans, we are the most resilient bar none and no one can really argue that.

Thanks Jack.
 

jackcass

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But the same issues arise every year. Why do people seem to believe things are going to be different? For over a decade now we have had long term injuries to key players or off field issues which have distracted and impacted our list. I love the revisionists who tell us we were never a chance this year when at various stages we were flag favourites. I have no doubt the inner sanctum truly believed we were a chance to go all the way after our epic win in Perth. Suddenly, after our dismal, insipid performance on Saturday night we were cooked, burnt out, never a realistic chance and only dumb, ignorant Collingwood fans could have believed we were any chance to win against Geelong, let alone win the flag.

This has been a pattern for years. I still remember Tony Shaw talking us up when we sat on top after nine rounds in his first year I think. As we dropped down the ladder with each passing week he began bagging the support base and their unrealistic expectations and over rating our list........ Same old story.

All year the players and Buckley never once shied away from our ambition to win the flag this year and they said so on the record on multiple occasions. Now it's we the fans who are deluded and ridiculous for daring to have the same expectation.
I think we've done really well addressing our injury issues of past years. They were mainly soft tissue concerns. This year, in a year with diminished training capacity and condensed scheduling when you'd likely expect an escalation of soft tissue issues, most of the injuries appear to be more contact based and you'll never get those out of footy.

In terms of goals, I'd assume that the vast majority of sides had finals as a season goal. I'd assume the number genuinely thinking they'd go all the way would drop to about 1/2 of those aiming at finals, but you don't aim to make finals just for the experience or to make up the numbers. If you make them, you're a chance. I'm not sure why we should therefore expect the Pies not to have those asperations or why we'd assume they mean anything in terms of achieving them.
 

Doc1763

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Mar 29, 2019
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This is what I find frustrating among Pie fans not only on this board but in life in general. Any constructive criticism or a show of frustration about our performance as a football club (or what it should be gauged at) then you're not a supporter - you're a pessimist.

I'm also saddened by the many fans who view GF appearances as the ultimate success, it's like if you mention other teams successes in eras or even dynasties it's like they block the ears and go 'la la la la la la la' trying to ignore a competitors much better success and hang the hat on how many times we've got to the big dance.

As the op of this thread, I'm not unhappy with how many finals and GF's we've played and won - it is intimidating and the numbers are heady. I'm unhappy with the amount of wasted opportunities. This snippet is damning, only 2 clubs have played more GF's than we've lost! We should have at the very least 10 more cups in the cabinet on those numbers.

View attachment 984225
Couldnt agree more. We have lost 11 Grand Finals in my lifetime. We should have won about 8 of them. Hell, I'd be happy with another 4.

12 of Hawthorn's 13 falgs are in my lifetime.

I have pretty much conceded that I'll never see an era of 2 or 3 quick flags. it just wont happen.
 

TKiL

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This is what I find frustrating among Pie fans not only on this board but in life in general. Any constructive criticism or a show of frustration about our performance as a football club (or what it should be gauged at) then you're not a supporter - you're a pessimist.

I'm also saddened by the many fans who view GF appearances as the ultimate success, it's like if you mention other teams successes in eras or even dynasties it's like they block the ears and go 'la la la la la la la' trying to ignore a competitors much better success and hang the hat on how many times we've got to the big dance.

As the op of this thread, I'm not unhappy with how many finals and GF's we've played and won - it is intimidating and the numbers are heady. I'm unhappy with the amount of wasted opportunities. This snippet is damning, only 2 clubs have played more GF's than we've lost! We should have at the very least 10 more cups in the cabinet on those numbers.

View attachment 984225
agree with you but others don't ........... :(

 

Carringbush2010

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Couldnt agree more. We have lost 11 Grand Finals in my lifetime. We should have won about 8 of them. Hell, I'd be happy with another 4.

12 of Hawthorn's 13 falgs are in my lifetime.

I have pretty much conceded that I'll never see an era of 2 or 3 quick flags. it just wont happen.
You mean like the current tiges, cats over 5 yrs or the 3 peat teams of the hawks and bris?

I'm a firm believer in weight of numbers, the amount of times we've contended the big dance in our lifetimes (I'm 50) is right up there. So IF we continue to contend then we will see it. That last era 09-12 should've netted at least another given the dominance of that team, the 2nd youngest flag team of all time that followed up the next year with a % of 167 on 20 wins. Teams like that are rarer than hens teeth.

I'm also a firm believer that have the ingredients to win a flag - or 2 in the next 2 or 3 years. Just gotta not waste the potential, and really that's where our frustrations come from. Wasting the window - that we should still be in.
 

Doc1763

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You mean like the current tiges, cats over 5 yrs or the 3 peat teams of the hawks and bris?

I'm a firm believer in weight of numbers, the amount of times we've contended the big dance in our lifetimes (I'm 50) is right up there. So IF we continue to contend then we will see it. That last era 09-12 should've netted at least another given the dominance of that team, the 2nd youngest flag team of all time that followed up the next year with a % of 167 on 20 wins. Teams like that are rarer than hens teeth.

I'm also a firm believer that have the ingredients to win a flag - or 2 in the next 2 or 3 years. Just gotta not waste the potential, and really that's where our frustrations come from. Wasting the window - that we should still be in.
I agree that we should ahve won another in the 09-12 time frame. we should have won at least 2 in the 77-81 timeframe. Prbably should have won 4 in the 64-73 timeframe.

Its not going to happen.
 

Carringbush2010

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agree with you but others don't ........... :(

Yeah I'm not going to get involved with that thread, I'll get lambasted for presenting facts.

BUT You gotta pay homage to the op, yeah it smacks of desperately hanging onto the positives while ignoring the failures as learnings along the way. The op is at least applauding whatever good that has come out of that time.

Resilient Pie fan.
 

anshell

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It’s true that we have a terrible record in grand finals.Sometimes it’s just bad luck and bad umpiring 1979 and 2018 for example.Sometimes we just choked at the end,1970 and 1977 for example.Sometimes we just haven’t had enough talent 2002 and 2003 for instance.What’s the answer to this problem that has gone back for decades now?Beats the hell out of me.
 

TKiL

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It’s true that we have a terrible record in grand finals.Sometimes it’s just bad luck and bad umpiring 1979 and 2018 for example.Sometimes we just choked at the end,1970 and 1977 for example.Sometimes we just haven’t had enough talent 2002 and 2003 for instance.What’s the answer to this problem that has gone back for decades now?Beats the hell out of me.
Beats the hell out of me too - sat at the MCG for 10 of those GF losses.... :(

as you say luck involved a bit, umpires, also maybe we've become too nice - respectable and responsible etc...?

bit of ruthlessness needed? - that's a cultural thing - losing is not acceptable........
 

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