Strategy A serious thread about Dimma's future

[TiggerMan22]

Richmond has never done a rebuild, thats the problem!!!

See Carlton.

Too many recycled players for too much like Yarran, Hampson, Prestia etc...

Yeh we should be doing it like the Hawks. All drafted my them, no players from other clubs in any of those flag winning teams.
And DEFINITELY not any players from other clubs that where a huge reason they made and won those grand finals. Nope. No. Definitely not.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

 

[RunningBounce]

3rd longest serving coach in our history

Everyone comfortable with this?

Hardwick will be on our honour boards for decades to come, in the same company as Jack Dyer and Tom Hafey.

His currently on 165 games, with a 47% winning record, and more games than of quite a few premiership coaches.

 

[BF Tiger]

Forget this argument that we are two kicks from being 7-1 and on top of the ladder. We'd be 7-1 with a % of 109. I'd guess that'd be the lowest ever percentage for a team on top after eight rounds of football.

Against the Bulldogs we kicked 5 in the first quarter and then 6 for the rest of the game. Yesterday it was 5 in the first three quarters and then five in the last.

 

[Mr Magic]

Yeh we should be doing it like the Hawks. All drafted my them, no players from other clubs in any of those flag winning teams.
And DEFINITELY not any players from other clubs that where a huge reason they made and won those grand finals. Nope. No. Definitely not.

LOL, I know you are being sarcastic but I will rebut it and say Mitchell, Lewis, Franklin, Roughead, Birchall Rioli all drafted by adding any top ups and we never near bottomed out like them, not to mention Hodge pick 1 from riding out players to other clubs!!

In fact replace Hampson with Docherty from the Lions, replace Prestia with SPS, and 2 second rounder for Yarran!!!! Seriously thats the ouch and why the list lacks punch particularly regarding timing!!!

Now theres a Dusty RFA debate after the absurd ludicrous payments to Prestia compared to SPS at CFC and now the likes of North are thinking about chasing both Kelly and Dusty!!! Clearly some of our off-field are mentally challenged!!

Like Malthouse at CFC with Dale Thomas this is why trades were balked out by supporters end of year with big costs for suspect commodities like Prestia!!

 

[Achilles Heel]

The same people defending him will be the same people hanging him when he is gone, should not even be at the club but as I said elsewhere the club is spineless they resigned hi because they didn't want any heat from the press in 2016 well I hope they enjoyed the front page of the sun yesterday

 

[theyellowsash]

List management has been abysmal bordering on negligent, and hardwick must bear some of the blame. He has done his best but unfortunately he just isn't good enough, and he needs to go (along with our entire recruitment department) at the end of the year.

 

[Goldust]

I was in the camp of he should have gone at the end of 2015 ..... I have seen nothing that makes me want to change my mind, but a few things that have only confirmed my suspicions.
Did a wonderful job getting us back on track - and relevant and respected - but does not detract from the fact he is a very poor game day coach and tactician.
I have no grudge with the coach, but do with the people who needlessly extended his contract in response to media speculation and pressure and reneged on the "a finals win in 2015 is the bare pass mark' scenario, though the club denied it last season.
I want to see an end of plonking round pegs in square shaped holes, and square pegs in round shaped holes and play blokes where they should be played and have played before, this won't end until Hardwick is gonski.

 

[Livonski]

Very good football brain, strategic thinker and passionate about how to play and win.
Never had a top shelf list to deal with but nevertheless was good enough to improve the basket case he took over.
Contract extension surprised me but I suspect he may have told the board some home truths about list deficiencies and the need to turn a few over and try a few out. Hence a few steps backwards.
List us better this year and will be better again next year. Whether he gets to coach that list is unknown at this point.
I hope he does.

 

[theyellowsash]

Very good football brain, strategic thinker and passionate about how to play and win.
Never had a top shelf list to deal with but nevertheless was good enough to improve the basket case he took over.
Contract extension surprised me but I suspect he may have told the board some home truths about list deficiencies and the need to turn a few over and try a few out. Hence a few steps backwards.
List us better this year and will be better again next year. Whether he gets to coach that list is unknown at this point.
I hope he does.

Another year of mediocrity then. Excellent.

 

[theflea]

I was in the camp of he should have gone at the end of 2015 ..... I have seen nothing that makes me want to change my mind, but a few things that have only confirmed my suspicions.
Did a wonderful job getting us back on track - and relevant and respected - but does not detract from the fact he is a very poor game day coach and tactician.
I have no grudge with the coach, but do with the people who needlessly extended his contract in response to media speculation and pressure and reneged on the "a finals win in 2015 is the bare pass mark' scenario, though the club denied it last season.
I want to see an end of plonking round pegs in square shaped holes, and square pegs in round shaped holes and play blokes where they should be played and have played before, this won't end until Hardwick is gonski.

This is where I like the idea of open contracts and finite pay clauses. At any time both parties can call time.

 

[Nantes]

I don't subscribe to the "didn't have a great list to work with", I'd argue that especially around 2013 the best 22 was very good, forget the five guns in Martin, Jack, Rance, Martin and Deledio and we still had a list that wasn't awful, I think we forget how good some players were a few years ago.

I believe there are a lot of ordinary players in premiership teams that get away with it because they play great as a team. Vice versa I think a lot of our players don't look as good in hindsight because the didn't achieve club success.

 

[Noseybonk]

I don't subscribe to the "didn't have a great list to work with", I'd argue that especially around 2013 the best 22 was very good, forget the five guns in Martin, Jack, Rance, Martin and Deledio and we still had a list that wasn't awful, I think we forget how good some players were a few years ago.

I believe there are a lot of ordinary players in premiership teams that get away with it because they play great as a team. Vice versa I think a lot of our players don't look as good in hindsight because the didn't achieve club success.

And he's had 8 years to build the list.

 

[Goldust]

I don't subscribe to the "didn't have a great list to work with", I'd argue that especially around 2013 the best 22 was very good, forget the five guns in Martin, Jack, Rance, Martin and Deledio and we still had a list that wasn't awful, I think we forget how good some players were a few years ago.

I believe there are a lot of ordinary players in premiership teams that get away with it because they play great as a team. Vice versa I think a lot of our players don't look as good in hindsight because the didn't achieve club success.

Easily mate. The likes of Nathan Foley, Daniel Jackson, the 2013 version of Ty Vickery, Jake King, Ricky Petterd, Chris Newman were superior to the likes of CEllis, Menadue, Markov, Short etc. where they are now.
Even BEllis was a better player in 2013 which is concerning.

 

[sante]

I'm not worried yet. Take out 2016 and we've been a pretty good team over the last few years. We've done a mini rebuild and only missing a few positions in our best 22 to become a contender IMO.

 

[Caveman68]

What should happen is if we don't win a final he should be sent packing. 8 years is more than enough time to do this.

What I think will happen is we will either squeak into the 8 and lose the final or miss the eight completely. The club will then sit on their hands and use the old faithful "stability" and he will still be their in 2018.

 

[Livonski]

Another year of mediocrity then. Excellent.

Hehe

 

[TerraTiger]

I don't think 1 coach makes a big difference in today's very professional game, Maybe in the VFL day's where you had a coach and an assistant coach.. But now we have a coach for every aspect of the game from Ruck to Forward to how to lace up your boots.

The coach is always the scapegoat.. Look at other clubs who were struggling, Bringing in a new coach doesn't change anything drastically.. It just helps us to start painting a new picture of what may lie ahead..

We need better players, not a better coach. ..

I think our recruiting department are a joke considering the amount of dud picks in drafts, Yarran was a complete disaster.. We had our chance to get it right in 2004 when we had a great position in a draft full of talent, We picked duds... and the Hawks picked the guns.. and look at the difference.. That enabled a flow on effect of winning games, finals, flags and players all wanting to play for Hawthorn...

I think we place too much emphasis on what the coach can really do.. The boys can either play footy or they cant. .

Agree to a large extent with this. Players make coaches, more than the other way around. The exception to this, IMO is if a coach is really, really bad or really, really good. The really bad gets weeded pretty quickly (eg Mark Neeld), the really, really good still needs players and a heap of support around them else their on a hiding to nothing too.

I don't think Dimma is either of these. That said, what frustrates me with Dimma (the coaching team) is how reactive it is and how it fixates on repairing issues at the expense of other fundamental aspects of the game (get beaten by surging teams eg Carlton, next minute everything is defense, backward kicking and ball possession; claim tackling doesn't really matter one year, next year tackling seems to be a key focus; see big bodies midfielders become a football trend stock up with several however forget that they need to bring skills/composure to the table. Also how reactive they are week to week at selection). I see this type of stuff as Dimma's main weakness, but it seems pretty evident he has the players respect and I think for a developing team this is very important.

I think Benny and co went too early on the contract extension. However, since that's done, I think we should make the best of that decision. Which would be this year he has as grace unless the season goes way, way off the rails.

 

[TigerTime99]

I like Dimma but where he went wrong was stuffing around with the game plan after 2013. We are finally very close I reckon game plan is good and we're much harder at it. We need a tall forward/second ruck, tall defender and a fast moving half back.
The players love Dimma but if you're going to move on him it has to be at the end of this season or we have to fully back him for another 3 years as we will be in the 8.
We have 85% of the players we need and we have the coaching staff now aswell.
I would be shopping for (wish list)
1. Keeping Dusty
2. Sam Reid
3. Jason Jo
4. Steven May Gold Coast, Jackson Trengove Port one of them.
We need to aim to keep one if not both our first round picks aswell. Plus we have a lot of people that we can trade and delist.
It's the thing with Richmond we're always almost there this off season proves to be the most important for a while.

 

[Achilles Heel]

Very good football brain, strategic thinker and passionate about how to play and win.
Never had a top shelf list to deal with but nevertheless was good enough to improve the basket case he took over.
Contract extension surprised me but I suspect he may have told the board some home truths about list deficiencies and the need to turn a few over and try a few out. Hence a few steps backwards.
List us better this year and will be better again next year. Whether he gets to coach that list is unknown at this point.
I hope he does.

Liv. He said himself this was the best list he had ever had, in 2016 we all agree that this years list is better, don't we?

 

[Achilles Heel]

What should happen is if we don't win a final he should be sent packing. 8 years is more than enough time to do this.

What I think will happen is we will either squeak into the 8 and lose the final or miss the eight completely. The club will then sit on their hands and use the old faithful "stability" and he will still be their in 2018.

And 2019 and 2020, the RFC is spineless, I was watching predator the other day when he rips the spinal chord out of his victims, well one of the victims was the RFC

 

[Goldust]

I like Dimma but where he went wrong was stuffing around with the game plan after 2013. We are finally very close I reckon game plan is good and we're much harder at it. We need a tall forward/second ruck, tall defender and a fast moving half back.
The players love Dimma but if you're going to move on him it has to be at the end of this season or we have to fully back him for another 3 years as we will be in the 8.
We have 85% of the players we need and we have the coaching staff now aswell.
I would be shopping for (wish list)
1. Keeping Dusty
2. Sam Reid
3. Jason Jo
4. Steven May Gold Coast, Jackson Trengove Port one of them.
We need to aim to keep one if not both our first round picks aswell. Plus we have a lot of people that we can trade and delist.
It's the thing with Richmond we're always almost there this off season proves to be the most important for a while.

Problem is Johanissen wants about $800,000 a year.
DSon't worry, have it on good authority he's gone from the Dogs, but I wouldn't pay thta price.
How would that sit with Dusty (well he might be on a million), Jack? Rance? Cotch?

 

[TigerTime99]

Problem is Johanissen wants about $800,000 a year.
DSon't worry, have it on good authority he's gone from the Dogs, but I wouldn't pay thta price.
How would that sit with Dusty (well he might be on a million), Jack? Rance? Cotch?

I hear ya mate suits our needs but not for that money.

 

[Achilles Heel]

Agree to a large extent with this. Players make coaches, more than the other way around. The exception to this, IMO is if a coach is really, really bad or really, really good. The really bad gets weeded pretty quickly (eg Mark Neeld), the really, really good still needs players and a heap of support around them else their on a hiding to nothing too.

I don't think Dimma is either of these. That said, what frustrates me with Dimma (the coaching team) is how reactive it is and how it fixates on repairing issues at the expense of other fundamental aspects of the game (get beaten by surging teams eg Carlton, next minute everything is defense, backward kicking and ball possession; claim tackling doesn't really matter one year, next year tackling seems to be a key focus; see big bodies midfielders become a football trend stock up with several however forget that they need to bring skills/composure to the table. Also how reactive they are week to week at selection). I see this type of stuff as Dimma's main weakness, but it seems pretty evident he has the players respect and I think for a developing team this is very important.

I think Benny and co went too early on the contract extension. However, since that's done, I think we should make the best of that decision. Which would be this year he has as grace unless the season goes way, way off the rails.

So after 8 years we are still a developing team , yet the dogs, demons and saints can turn it around with new coaches inside three years, we talk about coaches and players, has beveridge got the players? Did Clark son have the players in the beginning?

 

[Goldust]

Liv. He said himself this was the best list he had ever had, in 2016 we all agree that this years list is better, don't we?

One of his biggest flaws, consistency of message. Chops and changes as often as us most of us do underwear and socks each morning. I'm not sure he believes this is the best list and it's likely not as it has serious deficiencies.
Back in 2010, 11, 12 and 13, Hardwick was very strong and consistent with his messaging, most pressers are a train wreck these days and a clear contradiction from week to week.