A set of numbers to give Dan his jollies

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These are the average crowd figures for Victorian teams playing at home against all interstate teams. Given that the 'out of town' sides only have smallish degrees of support at these games, it should show roughly what sort of following the Vic clubs do have.

It covers the seasons 1987 to 2000. Finals not included.

29,905 Essendon
26,584 Collingwood
21,462 Richmond
21,246 Melbourne
20,415 Carlton
20,392 Geelong
20,382 St. Kilda
19,978 Hawthorn
17,013 North Melbourne
15,410 Footscray / WB
8,339 Fitzroy

Looks like Dan was right all along!
 

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Crows-r-ok

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#4
Interesting.

While you are at it, and since you seem to have access to statistics, why don't you also post the crowd tallies for non-Victorian teams playing at home against all teams from other states? Given that the 'out of town' sides only have smallish degrees of support at these games, it should show the level of support for the non-Vic teams.
 

Danny Chook Fan Club

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#6
I don't think that attendances are the correct measure for a number of reasons:

1. Ground capacities: Carlton are disadvantaged on this score because they play at a smaller, less popular ground.

2. Neutrals: MCC & AFL members, theatre-goers, etc.

3. Uneven draw: The 'blockbusters' create a situation where the notionally higher supported teams get two higher drawing games per year. A team like St Kilda could get only six games in a four year span against Collingwood & Essendon, while those two get each other eight times.

The only true measure of a club's support is its membership. Anyone can say that they 'support' a team (it's by that measure that Sydney have the most support in the country - does anyone actually believe that?), but until people put their hands in their pockets and help their clubs, they can't really be considered as true supporters.

Therefore, I suggest that membership should be the measure to determine the most popular clubs.

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Darky

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#7
Originally posted by Danny Chook Fan Club:
I don't think that attendances are the correct measure for a number of reasons:

1. Ground capacities: Carlton are disadvantaged on this score because they play at a smaller, less popular ground.

2. Neutrals: MCC & AFL members, theatre-goers, etc.

3. Uneven draw: The 'blockbusters' create a situation where the notionally higher supported teams get two higher drawing games per year. A team like St Kilda could get only six games in a four year span against Collingwood & Essendon, while those two get each other eight times.

The only true measure of a club's support is its membership. Anyone can say that they 'support' a team (it's by that measure that Sydney have the most support in the country - does anyone actually believe that?), but until people put their hands in their pockets and help their clubs, they can't really be considered as true supporters.

Therefore, I suggest that membership should be the measure to determine the most popular clubs.

Fair points Chooky but the above figures relate only to matches against interstate clubs, none of which would be labelled as blockbusters by any stretch. Similarly, Carlton's ground capacity doesn't really come into it becaus ethey wouldn't fill it up EVER against an interstate side. Also, other teams play a few matches per year at Telephone Stadium.
 

Dan26

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#8
Not surprised to see Essendon on top, obviously.

For the first five years of those stats (1987-88-89-90-91), we were playing at Windy Hill, where our crowd drawing capacity was severley restricted. In fact, Windy Hill only held a maximum of 20,000 people in those years. If we had been playing at the MCG, our figures, would probably be well into the mid-30,000's.

Teams like Melbourne are advantaged because they play at the MCG, which attracts a lot of theatregoers, MCC and AFL members. Carlton, who play at crappy Optus don't attract any theatre-goers, MCC memebrs, and only a select few AFL members.

The best crowd we had against a non-Victorian club in the HOME AND AWAY was 69,000 agaisnt Sydney i Round 21 1996. This was helped by about 15,000 old South Melbourne fans, so I don't think it should count. Not including Sydney matches, we drew 55,000 agaisnt West Coast at the MCG in a home and away match in 1999. This crowd record may never be broken.
 

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CJH

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#15
Richmond are third on that list, which is positive since for 7 seasons between 1987 and 1993 we were complete basket cases with only 4000 or so members.

We would have managed to lift our average in the ensuing 7 seasons.

JQW, would you be able to perform this gap analysis? What was Richmonds average b/w 1987 - 1993, then 1994 - 2000?

Also do the same test for Essendon from 1987 - 1991, then 1992 - 2000.

Could be interesting!

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dees01

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#17
Originally posted by Dan24:


.

Teams like Melbourne are advantaged because they play at the MCG, which attracts a lot of theatregoers, MCC and AFL members.

Why would a theatregoer go and watch Melbourne play an interstate team like Adealide or West Coast. Generally the AFL and MCC would be full of supporters of the Victorian team. That would be fairly boring to watch an interstate team if you did not barrack for the team. Normally theatregoers like myself go and watch the big games. E.g Coll v Carl, Ess v Carl, Ess v Coll etc..


And I remember that game between Ess and Sydney. I was amazed by that crowd.
 
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Thread starter #18
CJH, you're spot on regarding Richmond's resurgence since 1994; the figures being... 1987 - 1993: 13,983; 1994 - 2000: 28,077

By comparison, Essendon's Windy Hill years, 1987 - 1991, averaged 16,564 as opposed to 35,158 in the years since.


Crows-r-ok, not sure if I got the full gist of your query, but anyway, these are the average crowds for non-Vic teams playing at home (discounting derbies):
40,244 Adelaide
30,106 Port Adelaide
28,414 West Coast
21,394 Fremantle
18,768 Sydney
13,832 Brisbane (9,263 at Carrara; 16,894 at Gabba)


Peter, out of a maximum of 62 occasions (38 for Fitzroy), these are the number of times a Vic club has played non-Vic club in Victoria:
50 Geelong
49 Footscray
49 Richmond
48 St. Kilda
47 Carlton
46 Melbourne
45 Hawthorn
45 Collingwood
44 Essendon
41 North Melbourne
24 Fitzroy

Looking at it from the other direction, the number of times Vic clubs have had to travel interstate to play non-Vic clubs at their home ground are:
51 Melbourne
49 Hawthorn
47 St. Kilda
46 Footscray (+1 home match v Sydney at SCG)
46 Essendon
46 Geelong
46 Richmond
45 North Melbourne (+2 home matches v Sydney at SCG)
44 Collingwood
43 Carlton
35 Fitzroy

Finally, Dan, the number you're after is 28,887
 
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#20
What is the Record for a H&A game between a Melbourne club and an interstate one

Clues:

It was against Sydney (of course) - their average 'away' gate in the last few years is approx 40,0000

It aint Essendon

It wasn't at the MCG

It was one of the teams which holds the 'neutral' record crowd for Waverley park
 

Dan26

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#21
Pess,

It was 72,000 in 1999 when Hawthorn played Sydney.

But this was "maunufactured" due to the unusual fact that it was Waverleys last game.

The Hawks also drew 92,000 to Waverley in 1981 against Collingwood. Hard to beleive isn't it?
 

Crows.ok

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#22
Crows-r-ok, not sure if I got the full gist of your query, but anyway, these are the average crowds for non-Vic teams playing at home (discounting derbies):
40,244 Adelaide
30,106 Port Adelaide
28,414 West Coast
21,394 Fremantle
... the rest

The full gist is simple- when you compare the crowds at games where only one team draws the crowd, you can get a reasonable guess at the drawing capacity for each club. Look at the 'interstate' sides above compared with the Vic sides:

29,905 Essendon
26,584 Collingwood
21,462 Richmond
21,246 Melbourne
... the rest.

Pretty good drawing power for the interstate clubs. Top of this list 10,000 clear is Adelaide, followed by Port. Pretty good drawing power in Adelaide. Three of the top four are 'interstate' clubs, not traditional ex-VFL clubs.

Forget the records at blockbuster games, it takes TWO clubs to draw people to those games. When the crowd is drawn by just the one club ... these are the figures.
 
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#23
Originally posted by Dan24:
Pess,

It was 72,000 in 1999 when Hawthorn played Sydney.

But this was "maunufactured" due to the unusual fact that it was Waverleys last game.

The Hawks also drew 92,000 to Waverley in 1981 against Collingwood. Hard to beleive isn't it?
Nope. In fact it was why the Hawthorn Administration fought so hard to keep Waverley as their home.
 
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#24
Dan24,
The hard part is why Hawthorn don't get bigger crowds more often - perhaps our internal mismanagement and supporter apathy before 1996.

It will take us a while to catch up but catch up we will.

Also nearly 50,000 against Port Adelaide in the ansett cup wasn't bad too.

But we definately shouldn't be playing against essendon at Colonial.
 

Dan26

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#25
Originally posted by Hawkforce.:
Nope. In fact it was why the Hawthorn Administration fought so hard to keep Waverley as their home.

Hawkforce.

That 92,000 in 1981 would have been made up primarily of Magpie fans - I'm guessing 70,000 or so. This was in 1981, remember - 1 year before the Hawks were about to embark on 13 successive finals campaigns. Your golden era hadn't started yet. In fact, the Hawks support back in 1981 would surely have been half of what it would grow to in the year 2000 on the back of 5 premierships from 1983-91. Back in 1981, your support would have been among the smallest in the VFL.

If your not surprised by 92,000 at Waverley, there must be something wrong with you. NINENTY-TWO-THOUSAND..........AT WAVERLEY, not the MCG.....Waverley. I mean, the ground doesn't even hold that much! It only held 75,000.
 
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