G
Guest
Guest
With the success of the International Rules games the AFL has given the impression that SOO is losing it's importance.
What does everybody think?
What does everybody think?
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S.Robbo
Debutant
Not dead. Will come back with a vengeance in 2002. International rules was just the tonic!
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- Sep 22, 2000
- 62,351
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YES !!!!!!!!!!!
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"The good humour man can only be pushed so far ". -Bart Simpson
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"The good humour man can only be pushed so far ". -Bart Simpson
G
Guest
Guest
- Thread starter
- #7
As I thought, although only a small sample so far the verdict is to dump the origin matches.
The people have spoken and we are the most important facet in our game.
The people have spoken and we are the most important facet in our game.
goatmaster
Senior List
State of origin is dead. There is no one with the courage or vision to push it.
I know many will disagree with this statement but state of origin is the highest level of the game. International rules are not Australian Rules for gods sake the game is played on a different shaped ground with a different shaped ball & a different scoring system. If that is Aussie Rules then baseball is cricket!
If you look at the demise of state of origin it basically comes down to the crap of the Eagles. I lived in W.A in the 80's & state of origin Tuesday was the biggest game of the year.The number of people who took the day off was enormous & the atmosphere & quality of the games was magnificent.
The Eagles then for 2 reasons killed the game in W.A
1st- concern over having more players playing than any other team & its effect in reality & risk
2nd- They want to be the state team - they are not! but the W.A media swallow whatever the Eagles tell them to.
S.A still has the passion for kicking the Vics they always have
The Vics never loved state footy but would turn out when the supremacy was threatened (1989v S.A as an example)
State of origin needs a push as the public aren't going to go to games that have 1/2 the players missing with imaginary injuries. Clubs are rightly concerned about the players they are the primary employer of so the club needs to have something going for it.
I therefore suggest the following starters for state of origin.
1. Payment increased to around $ 10,000 for players.
2. Allowance for clubs to put an up to $ 20,000 per player bonus to a player that plays for the state without it counting on the salary cap.
3. Players who miss state of origin with injuries are inelible to play the next week. Players who missed the week before & pull out could play.
4. Dump the silly allies concept- the guns didn't want to play & the team had no support.
5. Play preseason instead of the Ansett Cup.
6. consider 2 divisions in the format of teh Teal cup with Vic Metro, Vic country, W.A & S.A as div 1. N.S.W, N.T , Qld & tas as Div 2
1 match elimination with a final losers play in Div 1 to avoid relagation.
7. Play it in the places that don't get footy - the bush , Darwin , Canberra
Every other sport has an all star game or some form of elite level above club level footy cannott grow without getting rid of the rubbish attitude that club level is the ultimate.
Sorry for the length of the post but it is one topic that I feel strongly on.
Goatmaster
I know many will disagree with this statement but state of origin is the highest level of the game. International rules are not Australian Rules for gods sake the game is played on a different shaped ground with a different shaped ball & a different scoring system. If that is Aussie Rules then baseball is cricket!
If you look at the demise of state of origin it basically comes down to the crap of the Eagles. I lived in W.A in the 80's & state of origin Tuesday was the biggest game of the year.The number of people who took the day off was enormous & the atmosphere & quality of the games was magnificent.
The Eagles then for 2 reasons killed the game in W.A
1st- concern over having more players playing than any other team & its effect in reality & risk
2nd- They want to be the state team - they are not! but the W.A media swallow whatever the Eagles tell them to.
S.A still has the passion for kicking the Vics they always have
The Vics never loved state footy but would turn out when the supremacy was threatened (1989v S.A as an example)
State of origin needs a push as the public aren't going to go to games that have 1/2 the players missing with imaginary injuries. Clubs are rightly concerned about the players they are the primary employer of so the club needs to have something going for it.
I therefore suggest the following starters for state of origin.
1. Payment increased to around $ 10,000 for players.
2. Allowance for clubs to put an up to $ 20,000 per player bonus to a player that plays for the state without it counting on the salary cap.
3. Players who miss state of origin with injuries are inelible to play the next week. Players who missed the week before & pull out could play.
4. Dump the silly allies concept- the guns didn't want to play & the team had no support.
5. Play preseason instead of the Ansett Cup.
6. consider 2 divisions in the format of teh Teal cup with Vic Metro, Vic country, W.A & S.A as div 1. N.S.W, N.T , Qld & tas as Div 2
1 match elimination with a final losers play in Div 1 to avoid relagation.
7. Play it in the places that don't get footy - the bush , Darwin , Canberra
Every other sport has an all star game or some form of elite level above club level footy cannott grow without getting rid of the rubbish attitude that club level is the ultimate.
Sorry for the length of the post but it is one topic that I feel strongly on.
Goatmaster
- Moderator
- #9
I really don't see the point of State of Origin any more...with International matches between Australia and Ireland guaranteed for the next five years and a national competition.
It is extremely likely that in the next five-ten years there will be a further reduction of clubs in Melbourne from 10 to 8, as per the AFL masterplan. With 8 clubs in Melbourne, two in WA, two in SA, a likely two in NSW/ACT and a likely two in Queensland, there appears even less need for a State of Origin series.
It is extremely likely that in the next five-ten years there will be a further reduction of clubs in Melbourne from 10 to 8, as per the AFL masterplan. With 8 clubs in Melbourne, two in WA, two in SA, a likely two in NSW/ACT and a likely two in Queensland, there appears even less need for a State of Origin series.
G
Guest
Guest
- Thread starter
- #10
Some interesing points Goatmaster, I would be in favour of an All Star match where all the players from all over Australia played in one game a year. Maybe this could be facilitated through changing the current draw to 2 conferences of 8 teams, then have the 2 conferences play each other.
BTW a 2 conference system is not that far from what we have at the moment, just more fair.
BTW a 2 conference system is not that far from what we have at the moment, just more fair.
why they ever made the SOO series a "mid-season" thing is a mystery to me, and is probably at least a part of the reason it died a horrible death.
If they had made the SOO perhaps 3 weeks after the GF, when everyone is mourning the end of footy for another year, it wouldve got better support, and more coverage, plus the clubs wouldnt be so worried about injuries as the season was effectively over.
now we have int rules anyway-so SOO has definitely died. No great loss really.
A.
If they had made the SOO perhaps 3 weeks after the GF, when everyone is mourning the end of footy for another year, it wouldve got better support, and more coverage, plus the clubs wouldnt be so worried about injuries as the season was effectively over.
now we have int rules anyway-so SOO has definitely died. No great loss really.
A.
Arch is very correct, Having SOO mid-season is the big mistake i seriously think SOO could make its way back if its played at the end of the season, when ijuries aren't that much of a concern.
SOO also needs to be more than SA v Victoria, it needs to be a tournament between all 6 states. I've already mentioned the way that i think SOO could be returned, and i had a few replies a long time back, so i'm not going to bother repeating.
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SOO also needs to be more than SA v Victoria, it needs to be a tournament between all 6 states. I've already mentioned the way that i think SOO could be returned, and i had a few replies a long time back, so i'm not going to bother repeating.
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One thing we have never seen in Australian Rules Football is the best 21 players playing against someone in a game of Australian Rules Football.
International Rules comes close as the BEST players are involved. The problem is they are playing a different game (I still love the internationals by the way)
But we have never had the best players playing in the same team in a game of Austrlian Football. State orf origin splits the best 60 or 70 players amongst 4 teams.
Kevin Sheedy was talkina bout a "best vs the rest" match where the All-Australian team plays agaisnt the next best 21 players picked.
It would be eye-candy, if nothing else, but it would give a chance for Hird, Buckley, Carey, Riccuito, Jakovich, Harvey, Lloyd etc to all play in the same team.
I'm just puting the idea out there.
International Rules comes close as the BEST players are involved. The problem is they are playing a different game (I still love the internationals by the way)
But we have never had the best players playing in the same team in a game of Austrlian Football. State orf origin splits the best 60 or 70 players amongst 4 teams.
Kevin Sheedy was talkina bout a "best vs the rest" match where the All-Australian team plays agaisnt the next best 21 players picked.
It would be eye-candy, if nothing else, but it would give a chance for Hird, Buckley, Carey, Riccuito, Jakovich, Harvey, Lloyd etc to all play in the same team.
I'm just puting the idea out there.
- Jul 6, 2000
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Let's hope so.
International Rules is great for AFL for the following reasons:
1. Gives talented blokes the chance to expose their talents to the irish public aswell as the aussies.
2. Let's afl players the chance to mix with other guys from other teams. Hopefully seeing new freindships blossom.
3. The experience. I'm sure all players would grab at the chance to play for Australia as a country and to sing the national anthem with PRIDE!!
4. Gives the supporters more footy so we have something entertaining after the footy season.
5. A team of champions. Time for Australia to sit back and relish the chance of seeing champion footy players together.
International Rules is great for AFL for the following reasons:
1. Gives talented blokes the chance to expose their talents to the irish public aswell as the aussies.
2. Let's afl players the chance to mix with other guys from other teams. Hopefully seeing new freindships blossom.
3. The experience. I'm sure all players would grab at the chance to play for Australia as a country and to sing the national anthem with PRIDE!!
4. Gives the supporters more footy so we have something entertaining after the footy season.
5. A team of champions. Time for Australia to sit back and relish the chance of seeing champion footy players together.
well it wasn't in my mind until the AFL made it like that. One year they r hyping it up and showing us how much passion Ted Whitten had installed in this honorable game between the states then the next minute they just chop it altogether and crap on about how it might come back in a few years!
They did it very sneakily i thought:
*First they hold the last State Of Origin on one of the worst days in Melbourne (weatherwise) then use that as an excuse for the poor crowd.
*They hold it halfway through the season so that certain key players wont play to risk injury at this most important last half of the season therefore this could also affect the popularity of it.
*Then they hold the Ireland series at a time when we are all just about dead from missing our footy so much so of course we are gonna go and they say ohhh what a marvelous turnout for this Ireland series!
Sneaky AFL again!
sPiDeR eVeRiTt and RiCkY oLaReNsHaW
~kewlest players round!!!
They did it very sneakily i thought:
*First they hold the last State Of Origin on one of the worst days in Melbourne (weatherwise) then use that as an excuse for the poor crowd.
*They hold it halfway through the season so that certain key players wont play to risk injury at this most important last half of the season therefore this could also affect the popularity of it.
*Then they hold the Ireland series at a time when we are all just about dead from missing our footy so much so of course we are gonna go and they say ohhh what a marvelous turnout for this Ireland series!
Sneaky AFL again!
sPiDeR eVeRiTt and RiCkY oLaReNsHaW
~kewlest players round!!!
dons_r_tops
Team Captain
It's as dead as a very dead duck that laid still on a major highway for a week
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2000 premiership
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2000 premiership
sainter
ENGLISH PREMIER LEAGUE
Goatmaster,
I think you have made a heck of a lot of sense there.
I am a big fan of the International Rules series and was very happy to see that the matches will become a permanent annual series, at least over the next four or so years.
However, I think you have nailed it.
State of Origin is (was) the highest level of Australian rules football. To see the All-Australian team and ring-ins play against Ireland is great, but it not Aussie football. To see the best of the best represent their state at the elite level was something to behold. Sorry to use rugby league as an example but the passion shown by the NSW and QLD players to their state is something that was ever present in Aussie rules and is now sadly gone.
Whether your proposal will work or not, I don't know. But like yourself, I can't help but think that we no longer get to see the game played at an elite level. And while I think Dan's suggestion is a good idea, there is nothing like state pride. The combination of representing your state and seeing the best players compete cannot be surpassed. Although in the last few years, it was clear that it had lost its appeal and that is a very sad thing.
I remember going to the State of Origin match in 1989 at the MCG and seeing Tony Lockett kick 5 goals. For a 9 year old, there was nothing better than seeing your idol represent the Big V and playing alongside and against the best of the best. The 96 000 people at the ground witnessed something special and I still remember the game quite clearly despite the game being 11 years ago.
I'm still hoping that the International Rules matches takes off in a big way and is embraced by the players and the public. Yet the apparent loss of State of Origin football is something that I for one will miss a great deal.
I think you have made a heck of a lot of sense there.
I am a big fan of the International Rules series and was very happy to see that the matches will become a permanent annual series, at least over the next four or so years.
However, I think you have nailed it.
State of Origin is (was) the highest level of Australian rules football. To see the All-Australian team and ring-ins play against Ireland is great, but it not Aussie football. To see the best of the best represent their state at the elite level was something to behold. Sorry to use rugby league as an example but the passion shown by the NSW and QLD players to their state is something that was ever present in Aussie rules and is now sadly gone.
Whether your proposal will work or not, I don't know. But like yourself, I can't help but think that we no longer get to see the game played at an elite level. And while I think Dan's suggestion is a good idea, there is nothing like state pride. The combination of representing your state and seeing the best players compete cannot be surpassed. Although in the last few years, it was clear that it had lost its appeal and that is a very sad thing.
I remember going to the State of Origin match in 1989 at the MCG and seeing Tony Lockett kick 5 goals. For a 9 year old, there was nothing better than seeing your idol represent the Big V and playing alongside and against the best of the best. The 96 000 people at the ground witnessed something special and I still remember the game quite clearly despite the game being 11 years ago.
I'm still hoping that the International Rules matches takes off in a big way and is embraced by the players and the public. Yet the apparent loss of State of Origin football is something that I for one will miss a great deal.
goatmaster, very good post (not unexpected of course). Im sorry to say that, like sainter i remember the 89 match too, but for far different reasons. Namely Tony Hall doing his knee and never recovering to be the player that he once was.
For purely selfish (ie club) reasons i dont care if its never played again. If no Hawks were involved then id probably embrace it wholeheartdly, hows that for perverse.
For purely selfish (ie club) reasons i dont care if its never played again. If no Hawks were involved then id probably embrace it wholeheartdly, hows that for perverse.
The popularity of the International Rules series seems to have put the State of Origin on hold.
If they did look at bringing back State of Origin, they cant go back to their past format:
* Scrap the mid season games where clubs wont put out their best players forward. The public want to pay to see the best players avaliable.
* Scrap the Allies team. I like many, prefered it when it was broken into state teams (NSW, Qld, Vic, SA, WA, Tas) This was the true form of State footy.
Does everyone think if the AFL brings back State footy and it fails again, will they scrap it for good?
If they did look at bringing back State of Origin, they cant go back to their past format:
* Scrap the mid season games where clubs wont put out their best players forward. The public want to pay to see the best players avaliable.
* Scrap the Allies team. I like many, prefered it when it was broken into state teams (NSW, Qld, Vic, SA, WA, Tas) This was the true form of State footy.
Does everyone think if the AFL brings back State footy and it fails again, will they scrap it for good?
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Freo_For_The_Flag
Rookie
State of Origin should not be put in the same basket as International Rules, they are two completely different things. First of all International Rules is held only once every 2 years. State of Origin is awesome and I can't think of too much better than seeing the best 22 from every state battling it out against each other. I think the problem is that we best 22 don't always get on the park. As others have said this is probably due to the games being held mid season. Perhaps it should be how it used to be, a pre season or post season carnival where each team plays each other. It was when state of origin had this format with players like Farmer, Michael, Moss etc committed to the cause that it was so popular. It would be sad to see it drop to the way side because of International Rules (which i am an unashamed fan of) and for us West Aussies to lose an oppurtunity to beat the Vics and Croweaters!
- Feb 25, 2000
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I love SOO and I hope it's not gone but I'm not holding my breath.
G
Guest
Guest
- Thread starter
- #22
Sainter, your example of the Rugby League SOO does not translate over to the AFL because nearly all of the players who play rugby league come from 2 states NSW and QLD. The NRL SOO has so much passion because when they hold these games they are virtualy the best vs. the best, this is not true in AFL.
No matter which state plays each other it will never be the best vs. the best, so unless the AFL comes up with a month long carnival with all states involved (will never happen) or an all star game it's hard to see the relevance of a SOO game as we have known them.
No matter which state plays each other it will never be the best vs. the best, so unless the AFL comes up with a month long carnival with all states involved (will never happen) or an all star game it's hard to see the relevance of a SOO game as we have known them.
Actually Freo_For_The_Flag the International Rules series between Australia and Ireland has been played every year (since 1998) - and will continue until at least 2005. Just wasn't sure what you meant there.
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