Grant Birchall returns after 2 years out...

[tige19]

Doesn't seem so loud now.

I honestly just don't get how people can talk dribble like this and actually believe it.

It's mind boggling, to say the least.

You know what mind boggling is? Paying someone 600k a year for 3 years and not getting anything in return, that’s what’s mind boggling.

If he doesn’t come back this year and contribute it’s been nothing but a donation to Birch’s retirement. It’s all good and well to say “he’s earned it” because you’re not paying the money.

Sorry that’s the way I see things and that’s that.

 

[tige19]

So if you were injured at work, you'd be happily dismissed, or made to do 2 years of rehab at your place of employment for no pay?

What a saintly giver you are...

If I couldn’t do the job I’d expect a severance payment and move on, that’s the logical thing and that’s what I’ve said should have happened with Birch for a while now.

 

[COKEandCOLA]

You know what mind boggling is? Paying someone 600k a year for 3 years and not getting anything in return, that’s what’s mind boggling.

If he doesn’t come back this year and contribute it’s been nothing but a donation to Birch’s retirement. It’s all good and well to say “he’s earned it” because you’re not paying the money.

Sorry that’s the way I see things and that’s that.

Is that you, Kim Jong-un?

I used to think like that, until my balls dropped and I grew up.

How about you respond to my other post?

 

[COKEandCOLA]

If I couldn’t do the job I’d expect a severance payment and move on, that’s the logical thing and that’s what I’ve said should have happened with Birch for a while now.

That's not how the WorkSafe legislation works, your employer, or anyone's employer for that matter, is legally obligated to get their employees back to pre-injury condition.

If that is not possible, then a compensation payout, not a termination/severance payout, would be in order.

True story!

 

[eldorado]

If I couldn’t do the job I’d expect a severance and move on, that’s the logical thing and that’s what I’ve said should have happened with Birch for a while now.

If you got injured in the course of your job, which meant you were incapacitated in your field with every other possible employer as well?

Wow, I know some Chinese factories or Victorian coal mines that would love a company boy like you...

jesus Christ, he wasn't water skiing, or punching on... he was doing his job, in a way agreed between him and his employer, suffered a debilitating injury, and is now doing everything instructed of him by his employer to resume his duties.

I doubt he is screwing the club. The club is his employer, and know their duty, and his value. You apparently know neither.

i stand by what I said. If you seriously think that is appropriate to just dismiss him, you are out of touch with reality.

 

[COKEandCOLA]

If you got injured in the course of your job, which meant you were incapacitated in your field with every other possible employer as well?

Wow, I know some Chinese factories or Victoriaqn coal mines that would love a company boy like you...

jesus Christ, he wasn't water skiing, or punching on... he was doing his job, in a way agreed between him and his employer, suffered a debilitating injury, and is now doing everything instructed of him by his employer to resume his duties.

I doubt he is screwing the club. The club is his employer, and know their duty, and his value. You apparently know neither.

i stand by what I said. If you seriously think that is appropriate to just dismiss him, you are out of touch with reality.

I think he might be touching something else.

 

[COKEandCOLA]

How much do we all think that Birchall in his prime, could have attracted from rival clubs?

I'm pretty bloody sure it would have been well over $600k that's for sure.

No doubt the bloke would have taken well unders to keep the club mantra going, but when he injuries himself, let's just throw him in the gutter.

Definitely not the Hawthorn way.

 

[Brant]

Right... I don’t think you’d have the slightest clue as to the standards I set for myself Mr Eldorado.

He’s a contracted player, Tige - that’s all that matters.

Forget the he’s earned it bit - it’s a contract, he’s legally entitled to it & we’re obliged to pay it.

 

[COKEandCOLA]

He’s a contracted player, Tige - that’s all that matters.

Forget the he’s earned it bit - it’s a contract, he’s legally entitled to it & we’re obliged to pay it.

Bang on!

Hopefully that's conversation - over.

 

[COKEandCOLA]

Maybe we should be asking the club to force Tom Mitchell to play with a broken leg to keep tige19 happy.

While we're at it, let's start docking payments for Chad Wingard and Tom Scully as well.

Hell, let's not stop there.

Would it be unreasonable to ask Jarryd Roughead to pay us back his wages from when he took time off to fight cancer?

Absolutely bloody deplorable and disrespectful, but at least it'll keep some here happy.

 

[tommyk72]

If you got injured in the course of your job, which meant you were incapacitated in your field with every other possible employer as well?

Wow, I know some Chinese factories or Victorian coal mines that would love a company boy like you...

jesus Christ, he wasn't water skiing, or punching on... he was doing his job, in a way agreed between him and his employer, suffered a debilitating injury, and is now doing everything instructed of him by his employer to resume his duties.

I doubt he is screwing the club. The club is his employer, and know their duty, and his value. You apparently know neither.

i stand by what I said. If you seriously think that is appropriate to just dismiss him, you are out of touch with reality.

Add to this, he has pursued this vocation to the exception of all others during his time as an AFL player. They have a very short career span, and I don't think there's a thing wrong with these $. I would suggest that he now won't be able to pursue a significant number of other vocations due to 1/ working with the club full time; and 2/ the injury that he has received that will mean he is now not able to execute other roles in other fields.

Can't believe the double standards. I'm more pissed at someone like Langford, Vickery or Cyril. At least Birch is still putting his all into his rehab and his body just keeps letting him down. This happens some times.

 

[COKEandCOLA]

Add to this, he has pursued this vocation to the exception of all others during his time as an AFL player. They have a very short career span, and I don't think there's a thing wrong with these $. I would suggest that he now won't be able to pursue a significant number of other vocations due to 1/ working with the club full time; and 2/ the injury that he has received that will mean he is now not able to execute other roles in other fields.

Can't believe the double standards. I'm more pissed at someone like Langford, Vickery or Cyril. At least Birch is still putting his all into his rehab and his body just keeps letting him down. This happens some times.

I definitely agree with Langford and Vickery, however the Cyril situation was different altogether.

But overall, what you're saying is correct.

 

[flinchfree]

Interesting thoughts, minus the personal attacks against posters I guess....
I understand where Tige is coming from, though it's always that balancing act against what you perceive is their effort to return from injury and their commitment and play for the team when on the field.

For the very reason Tommy mentions, I actually feel quite differently to him.
BECAUSE it's such a short career, say 10 years, being out for 3 (were that to be the case) is a very significant portion of their playing time and support from the club without the return that the contract is based on....because you know it does go both ways.
Not only has Birch sacrificed his body and done great things for our Club, so has he been remunerated handsomely for it and given an extraordinary lifestyle compared to most Australians. He's playing a game, not saving lives, and 600K is a tonne of money to do so. If this were 'regular' employment like a few are describing, 2-3 years is a blip in their working lives and can be repaid to societies great endeavours many times over. The same period in a pro sports team is a third ish of what you might end up getting.
Maybe it's that great Aussie 'fair go' attitude that's being expressed, but in pro sports in the US I can promise you that a fella sitting on the sidelines of an NBA court for over 2 years without contributing much, on big coin, would not get much support from the crowds.
They'd be wondering where their return is.
Got a feeling Tige, much like he does on a few things, falls to that US side of doing and thinking.

Doesn't mean posters should use demeaning language about him, he's been around and contributed very reasoned thought on many issues for a lot of years, even when that reasoning is different to some.
If you've just walked in on this forum, perhaps you should keep your balls out of the chilly winds until you've offered half as much.

 

[tommyk72]

I definitely agree with Langford and Vickery, however the Cyril situation was different altogether.

But overall, what you're saying is correct.

Yes, Cyril was different. But if we are drawing parallels with workplaces I’m not sure he would have the same support elsewhere.

 

[PhatHQ]

Interesting thoughts, minus the personal attacks against posters I guess....
I understand where Tige is coming from, though it's always that balancing act against what you perceive is their effort to return from injury and their commitment and play for the team when on the field.

For the very reason Tommy mentions, I actually feel quite differently to him.
BECAUSE it's such a short career, say 10 years, being out for 3 (were that to be the case) is a very significant portion of their playing time and support from the club without the return that the contract is based on....because you know it does go both ways.
Not only has Birch sacrificed his body and done great things for our Club, so has he been remunerated handsomely for it and given an extraordinary lifestyle compared to most Australians. He's playing a game, not saving lives, and 600K is a tonne of money to do so. If this were 'regular' employment like a few are describing, 2-3 years is a blip in their working lives and can be repaid to societies great endeavours many times over. The same period in a pro sports team is a third ish of what you might end up getting.
Maybe it's that great Aussie 'fair go' attitude that's being expressed, but in pro sports in the US I can promise you that a fella sitting on the sidelines of an NBA court for over 2 years without contributing much, on big coin, would not get much support from the crowds.
They'd be wondering where their return is.
Got a feeling Tige, much like he does on a few things, falls to that US side of doing and thinking.

Doesn't mean posters should use demeaning language about him, he's been around and contributed very reasoned thought on many issues for a lot of years, even when that reasoning is different to some.
If you've just walked in on this forum, perhaps you should keep your balls out of the chilly winds until you've offered half as much.

A season with injuries in the US is manageable. 2 seasons is questionable & more than likely paid out & moved on/traded with an injury settlement, 3 years is laughable.
How this has played out is ridiculous with the consistent 4-6 weeks from the club.
Careers are short but a premiership season is shorter & that salary sitting on the bench could have been used elsewhere this season.
Birch is a top player but the club is bigger than 1 guy & premierships are the game in question not rehab.
He could be doing rehab on an injury settlement for this season & rookie listed on peanuts.
Poorly managed, agree with tige & personal jibes are for children.
So there .... hmf

 

[TazHawk15]

If I couldn’t do the job I’d expect a severance payment and move on, that’s the logical thing and that’s what I’ve said should have happened with Birch for a while now.

As I said to you a long time ago in this thread.

Grow up.

 

[tige19]

He’s a contracted player, Tige - that’s all that matters.

Forget the he’s earned it bit - it’s a contract, he’s legally entitled to it & we’re obliged to pay it.

Yup, this I accept... I still think he should have retired and been offered a pay out and employed at the club in another role.

 

[tige19]

A season with injuries in the US is manageable. 2 seasons is questionable & more than likely paid out & moved on/traded with an injury settlement, 3 years is laughable.
How this has played out is ridiculous with the consistent 4-6 weeks from the club.
Careers are short but a premiership season is shorter & that salary sitting on the bench could have been used elsewhere this season.
Birch is a top player but the club is bigger than 1 guy & premierships are the game in question not rehab.
He could be doing rehab on an injury settlement for this season & rookie listed on peanuts.
Poorly managed, agree with tige & personal jibes are for children.
So there .... hmf

You are spot on... people become personal because they can't accept opposing views, we have a board full of Richard Di natales.

This is not personal with Birch but he hasn't contributed for a long time, has taken a large chunk of salary which we could have used.

The yanks don't give players 2 years even, you're being generous just for this discussion. Birch has been given all the time in the world, he should have put his hand up and moved himself on.

 

[tige19]

Interesting thoughts, minus the personal attacks against posters I guess....
I understand where Tige is coming from, though it's always that balancing act against what you perceive is their effort to return from injury and their commitment and play for the team when on the field.

For the very reason Tommy mentions, I actually feel quite differently to him.
BECAUSE it's such a short career, say 10 years, being out for 3 (were that to be the case) is a very significant portion of their playing time and support from the club without the return that the contract is based on....because you know it does go both ways.
Not only has Birch sacrificed his body and done great things for our Club, so has he been remunerated handsomely for it and given an extraordinary lifestyle compared to most Australians. He's playing a game, not saving lives, and 600K is a tonne of money to do so. If this were 'regular' employment like a few are describing, 2-3 years is a blip in their working lives and can be repaid to societies great endeavours many times over. The same period in a pro sports team is a third ish of what you might end up getting.
Maybe it's that great Aussie 'fair go' attitude that's being expressed, but in pro sports in the US I can promise you that a fella sitting on the sidelines of an NBA court for over 2 years without contributing much, on big coin, would not get much support from the crowds.
They'd be wondering where their return is.
Got a feeling Tige, much like he does on a few things, falls to that US side of doing and thinking.

Doesn't mean posters should use demeaning language about him, he's been around and contributed very reasoned thought on many issues for a lot of years, even when that reasoning is different to some.
If you've just walked in on this forum, perhaps you should keep your balls out of the chilly winds until you've offered half as much.

Thank you kind sir, I think I'm around 16-17 years on this forum, BF has been with me through a fair whack of life and I enjoy the discussion with most posters. The personal jibes are water off a ducks back, I've met a few posters over the years and I think I've never failed to have a ripper time with them with great chats.

As I've said many times, my views are mine alone, I tend to summarise things in a fair way and I think it's very fair that we've given Birch 2 years to get right, maybe even 3 with the updates we've been given recently. It's a real shame we couldn't use his salary elsewhere, that's the disappointng thing for me.

 

[tige19]

PS. Have a staff meeting now lads, I might chastise someone if they're late.... warnings all round right?

 

[COKEandCOLA]

Interesting thoughts, minus the personal attacks against posters I guess....
I understand where Tige is coming from, though it's always that balancing act against what you perceive is their effort to return from injury and their commitment and play for the team when on the field.

For the very reason Tommy mentions, I actually feel quite differently to him.
BECAUSE it's such a short career, say 10 years, being out for 3 (were that to be the case) is a very significant portion of their playing time and support from the club without the return that the contract is based on....because you know it does go both ways.
Not only has Birch sacrificed his body and done great things for our Club, so has he been remunerated handsomely for it and given an extraordinary lifestyle compared to most Australians. He's playing a game, not saving lives, and 600K is a tonne of money to do so. If this were 'regular' employment like a few are describing, 2-3 years is a blip in their working lives and can be repaid to societies great endeavours many times over. The same period in a pro sports team is a third ish of what you might end up getting.
Maybe it's that great Aussie 'fair go' attitude that's being expressed, but in pro sports in the US I can promise you that a fella sitting on the sidelines of an NBA court for over 2 years without contributing much, on big coin, would not get much support from the crowds.
They'd be wondering where their return is.
Got a feeling Tige, much like he does on a few things, falls to that US side of doing and thinking.

Doesn't mean posters should use demeaning language about him, he's been around and contributed very reasoned thought on many issues for a lot of years, even when that reasoning is different to some.
If you've just walked in on this forum, perhaps you should keep your balls out of the chilly winds until you've offered half as much.

Just wanted to address the latter part of your post, you're definitely right, I was harsh on the bloke.

I reacted to it the way that I did, because the disrespect that he's showing to one of the greats of our club, is totally unfair.

Combined with the fact that he only replied to one of my comments, that he could twist to an extent and make suit his argument, but never actually maturely responded to the previous post, which politely contradicted his position on the subject.

He also seems at times to spit the dummy, when conversations don't go his way, however that's the way life is, people won't always agree and we still need to be able to have a mature attitude and understand that, as opposed to throwing our toys out the cot.

While yes, I have only been here for a minute, I'm mature enough to know that I could have chosen my words better.

If you're out there tige19 then I'm sorry that your balls haven't dropped yet.

Kidding, in all seriousness though, I apologise for singling you out and taking the piss a little.

I could have been a little more mature, in how I took your opinion on board.

I still hope that we can be friends.

 

[COKEandCOLA]

Yes, Cyril was different. But if we are drawing parallels with workplaces I’m not sure he would have the same support elsewhere.

That's part of what makes Hawthorn so great, we're not like other clubs.

 

[COKEandCOLA]

A season with injuries in the US is manageable. 2 seasons is questionable & more than likely paid out & moved on/traded with an injury settlement, 3 years is laughable.
How this has played out is ridiculous with the consistent 4-6 weeks from the club.
Careers are short but a premiership season is shorter & that salary sitting on the bench could have been used elsewhere this season.
Birch is a top player but the club is bigger than 1 guy & premierships are the game in question not rehab.
He could be doing rehab on an injury settlement for this season & rookie listed on peanuts.
Poorly managed, agree with tige & personal jibes are for children.
So there .... hmf

We're not in the U.S though and I fail to fathom how people can complain and take a stance against our great game being Americanized, but then totally contradict themselves by using the U.S as a precedent.

Not directed as you personally, your post was just a sample of what I'm talking about.

Also, while yes the sporting clubs in the U.S have more power, so do the players.

It's got to the point where everyone involved is mercenary like, do we really want to do that here?

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

The difference with Birch is he has been injured for about six years. Anyone who has seen him train would have seen him shuffling along, sprint when needed, then go back to his shuffle. Most of his career has been managing the same injury and it has worked for us and him.

But history is now against him.

 

[lickmerocks]

If we see Birch play some decent consistent footy this year it will be a big bonus.

(I have cancelled him out in my thoughts)

If his body continues to fail him we will see a mid season retirement.