A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

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BringBackTorps

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This is what I am talking about - in no way does this relate to afl in Sydney. Cherry picking negative news stories about other codes like it can boast the sport. This is not how things work & one could easily do same to show game's own problems.

1. C. 7.3m fans attended AFL matches in 2019- & since 1970, c. 250m+ fans have attended the VFL/AFL. Whilst brawling occurs occasionally, the total no. of incidents are miniscule. AFAIK, there have been no stabbings (although some serious assaults do occur). AF has a good reputation.

In contrast, the multiple stabbing contributes to RL's "image problem". Even P. Rothfield described it as "a horrible story", & it has received wide coverage in various parts of the NSW MSM.

There is wide acceptance that RL has had an "image problem" with many people, re behavioural standards on & off field, for many years. RL officials & MSM RL experts etc. have admitted this. It is incontrovertible that the image problem is a contributing factor to the long term, significant decline in male RL regd. contact nos. in NSW, ACT, & Qld.

I have previously requested, many times, you answer the specific questions (re growth of GR AF etc. in NSW & ACT) I have put to you directly in this thread- see my posts #1722,1789,1917,1978,1995. You have failed to answer my specific questions to you, & you deny the claims of significant AF growth.

As you are a soccer supporter & Englishmen now living in Australia (pretending to be an AFL fan!) I suppose you consider this extremely rare player stabbing in Sydney as "uneventful"- cf to the regular assaults that occur amongst soccer fans in Europe. I assume you agree that stabbings are totally unacceptable in Australia- & damage further the reputation of RL.







EDIT:

2. SMH V. Rugari 20.8

Rugari said

"The A League's share of mainstream media space has shrunk by more than two thirds since the covid-19 shutdown, according to independent analysis that lays bare one of the major challenges in the competitions impending shift to winter".

Do you dispute the independent analysis that the A League is likely to shrink to further irrelevance in the MSM if/when it moves to winter? If so, on what basis?
Do you dispute that this increasing irrelevance is likely to benefit, in the medium to long term, the AFL & GR AF in NSW & ACT? If so, on what basis?




3. abc.net R. Hinds 16.6

Do you dispute R. Hinds' analysis that the AFL will emerge from covid-19 in a stronger position financially, vis-a-vis the much more weakened financial position of the FFA & A League, & other Aust. sports? If so, on what basis?

This relatively increasing AFL financial strength is very likely to further expand the growth of the AFL & GR AF in NSW, ACT, & Qld.
Do you dispute this- if so, on what basis?

Do you dispute the analysis of Goldman Sachs MSM experts, SMH R. Masters (RL booster) & others that the AFL has achieved in June 2020 much better new Rights' deals, vis-a-vis the NRL's new deals? If so, on what basis?

(See my post#2877 for Hinds' abc link- & comparison of AFL & NRL new Rights' deals etc.)



4. Why are you so fearful of the growth of AF in NSW & ACT; & that you are pretending to be an AF fan- & troll a pro AFL website?

If the A League dies or becomes a semi-pro comp, you can always watch on Pay TV, SBS etc. soccer matches from home in England.
 
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General Giant

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This is what I am talking about - in no way does this relate to afl in Sydney. Cherry picking negative news stories about other codes like it can boast the sport. This is not how things work & one could easily do same to show game's own problems.
You are so upset about the sport it’s hilarious.
 

General Giant

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The irony is you are so ridiculous it is hard to know if you are not just a pyss take of a soccer fan
He is just that. Most football/soccer fans who don’t follow another sport couldn’t care less about other codes. They concentrate on just that.

Only some act like 10 year olds creating troll accounts on sports sites they don’t like to cry and moan.
 

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RedV3x

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General Giant

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For those that are small minded enough to not see the reason for bringing up Leagues ebs and flows in a thread about AFL in Sydney,

The biggest growth in the sport through acceptance in the media and crowds, besides the last few years, was the Super League war.
Fans sick of the garbage and clubs being killed off left and right showed up to Swans games in their 1000’s.

The Giants didn’t come in with a plan that something like that would happen again, though the constant talk of killing off 3 or 4 Sydney clubs seems to be rather damaging,but as a generational plan/build.
In saying that, what’s happening in the sports that consider NSW and a Sydney as heartland are important to the discussion.
 

Pippen94

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue

You are using wikipedia for a league revenue comparisons?

Straight up you can see that the AFL figure is just the league revenue from the annual report. The actual figure is more than double that once you add in club revenue. There are only 6 soccer leagues with more revenue than the AFL - the big 5 euros and the Brazil Serie A

The evidence links to the Korean and Chinese totals are broken. Just a quick google shows that actual revenues of those three asian leagues is nowhere near the reported numbers

K League total revenues last year were about $435 Australian. About 1/4 the size of the AFL

The J League has a 10 year TV rights deal worth $190M US a year

The chinese league sells most tickets for between $2 and $5. It has TV rights deal of $250M US







No it is not because no league in asia is even remotely near the gravitas a history of the AFL



The irony is you are so ridiculous it is hard to know if you are not just a pyss take of a soccer fan

Australia is 7th on the all time olympics gold medals. The AFL increasingly takes the lion share of the athletic talent that produced those results historically.

Soccer would barely have been played in asia 50 years ago.
Afl figures on that page are correct as per 2019 - there is no reason to disbelieve others unless you don't trust something because its foreign. Page clearly states league revenue. There are some big clubs in those competitions which cater to large markets. One marquee player is earning 26 million euro which is about same salary as 3 afl clubs. Plus given size of countries lots of sponsorship potential - we see what afl will do for just a vwry tiny small piece of that.

Prestige of afl means nothing outside of this country & even outside 3 southern states really. J League would have greater profile world wide. Asian championship covers huge area in terms of population - afl is simply can't compare to this.

Point I am making not too subtlety is that Australia is really small compared to rest of world. I dispute blanket statement best athletes go to afl - soccer is No. 1 participation in Australia & above riverina it's a niche sport. But think about this; soccer has its pick of athletic talent from Europe, Africa, South & Central America & Asia.
 

Pippen94

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For those that are small minded enough to not see the reason for bringing up Leagues ebs and flows in a thread about AFL in Sydney,

The biggest growth in the sport through acceptance in the media and crowds, besides the last few years, was the Super League war.
Fans sick of the garbage and clubs being killed off left and right showed up to Swans games in their 1000’s.

The Giants didn’t come in with a plan that something like that would happen again, though the constant talk of killing off 3 or 4 Sydney clubs seems to be rather damaging,but as a generational plan/build.
In saying that, what’s happening in the sports that consider NSW and a Sydney as heartland are important to the discussion.
There is no hard evidence or statistics you can point to which show lasped fans more prone to become supporters or new fans will ditch existing favorite teams.
 

General Giant

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There is no hard evidence or statistics you can point to which show lasped fans more prone to become supporters or new fans will ditch existing favorite teams.
Really? So you weren’t alive during the SL war in 96 I’m guessing. Explains a lot really.


But if you are right then your mob are f’ed.
 

Established1870

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For those that are small minded enough to not see the reason for bringing up Leagues ebs and flows in a thread about AFL in Sydney,

The biggest growth in the sport through acceptance in the media and crowds, besides the last few years, was the Super League war.
Fans sick of the garbage and clubs being killed off left and right showed up to Swans games in their 1000’s.

The Giants didn’t come in with a plan that something like that would happen again, though the constant talk of killing off 3 or 4 Sydney clubs seems to be rather damaging,but as a generational plan/build.
In saying that, what’s happening in the sports that consider NSW and a Sydney as heartland are important to the discussion.
Agree completely on this.

The Super League War was the key biggest factor for footy gaining a significant foothold in NSW and any discussion revolving around further teams in NSW and QLD or even the growth of the game in general revolve around the health of League (and to a lesser extent soccer IMO).

One mistake I think the AFL made when the SL War stuff was happening was them not putting Canberra in.
 

LordLucifer

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Keeping on the topic of the thread, thoughts on the next team(s) from NSW being from outside of Sydney. Places like Newcastle and maybe Wollongong or somewhere else south of Sydney would make sense if hypothetically the AFL were planning for NSW 3 and NSW 4.
You are talking my language here !!

Sydney Swans
GWS Giants
Northern Sydney Pirates
Central Coast Bowerbirds
Illawarra Sea Snakes

I reckon there could be a relocation out of Melbourne to one of the new entities too.
 

General Giant

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You are talking my language here !!

Sydney Swans
GWS Giants
Northern Sydney Pirates
Central Coast Bowerbirds
Illawarra Sea Snakes

I reckon there could be a relocation out of Melbourne to one of the new entities too.
North Shore should get a promotion over North Sydney. Been in the Sydney comp since the beginning and one of the biggest grassroots,

Can’t see CC or Illawarra.
 

LordLucifer

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North Shore should get a promotion over North Sydney. Been in the Sydney comp since the beginning and one of the biggest grassroots,

Can’t see CC or Illawarra.
Northern Sydney/Northern Beaches/North Shore, I've bundled them all in together as the proposed new entity would take over that complete territory.

The borders for the three Sydney based clubs would/could be the harbour itself for the North Shore & Swans plus a line from north to south going through Parramatta for the western segment for the Giants.

Each club would have a third of the metro area to work within, approx. 1.5 million people for each.
 

Established1870

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When do people actually expect a third or fourth NSW side to come into the AFL? I wouldn't expect to see it before 2050 unless the NRL just dies and no new league replaces it or either the Giants or Swans win 4 flags in a row and bring in massive interest across the state.
 

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Gigantor

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Afl figures on that page are correct as per 2019 - there is no reason to disbelieve others unless you don't trust something because its foreign. Page clearly states league revenue. There are some big clubs in those competitions which cater to large markets. One marquee player is earning 26 million euro which is about same salary as 3 afl clubs. Plus given size of countries lots of sponsorship potential - we see what afl will do for just a vwry tiny small piece of that.

Prestige of afl means nothing outside of this country & even outside 3 southern states really. J League would have greater profile world wide. Asian championship covers huge area in terms of population - afl is simply can't compare to this.

Point I am making not too subtlety is that Australia is really small compared to rest of world. I dispute blanket statement best athletes go to afl - soccer is No. 1 participation in Australia & above riverina it's a niche sport. But think about this; soccer has its pick of athletic talent from Europe, Africa, South & Central America & Asia.
Actually, yes, there is a reason to disbelieve it, as he says, the broadcast deals for those comps are smaller than that of the AFL - and that's even after a post-COVID trim!
Crowds for all three comps are smaller as well..
The Chinese league basically survives off wealthy individuals pouring money into them (and I'm sure nothing dodgy is going on there!!)
You can count that as revenue if you wish.
I wouldn't.
People like you try and talk these leagues up as if they are something special. They are crap leagues, surviving at the behest of wealthy individuals, making bugger all money from other sources.
Most of them are barely 25 years old!
And you're talking them up as if they're something special!
You think these crap leagues can teach Australians about how to run a sports comp??
You don't reckon Australian Football has had pretty good experience at running a league?? (more than most)
So when you say: "it's nice to know something about the world", I say to you, probably better for the world to know something about Australia.
 

Pippen94

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Really? So you weren’t alive during the SL war in 96 I’m guessing. Explains a lot really.


But if you are right then your mob are f’ed.
Where is evidence to back this up?? NRL crowds have increased since before super league. The highest TV ratings records were recorded post super league.
 

General Giant

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Northern Sydney/Northern Beaches/North Shore, I've bundled them all in together as the proposed new entity would take over that complete territory.

The borders for the three Sydney based clubs would/could be the harbour itself for the North Shore & Swans plus a line from north to south going through Parramatta for the western segment for the Giants.

Each club would have a third of the metro area to work within, approx. 1.5 million people for each.
Just like the idea of, what is probably, the biggest and one of the oldest grassroots clubs in Sydney getting recognition.
Obviously a name change from Bombers would happen but they could keep their colours and add white. Maybe claim the Bears since League threw them out.
 

General Giant

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When do people actually expect a third or fourth NSW side to come into the AFL? I wouldn't expect to see it before 2050 unless the NRL just dies and no new league replaces it or either the Giants or Swans win 4 flags in a row and bring in massive interest across the state.
A long long long time.

In my mind Tas and Canberra are next of the rank.

Still nice to talk about though.
 

General Giant

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Where is evidence to back this up?? NRL crowds have increased since before super league. The highest TV ratings records were recorded post super league.
Evidence? I lived through the ******* thing and my club was destroyed from it.

AFL was barely in the paper unless it was to laugh at the latest marketing gimmick. Then it all changed during 96.

The League didn’t get over the War until mid 2010s and even then some say they haven’t.

Keep proving you are a teenager.
 

Pippen94

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Actually, yes, there is a reason to disbelieve it, as he says, the broadcast deals for those comps are smaller than that of the AFL - and that's even after a post-COVID trim!
Crowds for all three comps are smaller as well..
The Chinese league basically survives off wealthy individuals pouring money into them (and I'm sure nothing dodgy is going on there!!)
You can count that as revenue if you wish.
I wouldn't.
People like you try and talk these leagues up as if they are something special. They are crap leagues, surviving at the behest of wealthy individuals, making bugger all money from other sources.
Most of them are barely 25 years old!
And you're talking them up as if they're something special!
You think these crap leagues can teach Australians about how to run a sports comp??
You don't reckon Australian Football has had pretty good experience at running a league?? (more than most)
So when you say: "it's nice to know something about the world", I say to you, probably better for the world to know something about Australia.
So?? I can point out afl has inflated position on list based on broadcasting rights bubble. Afl is regional sport played exclusively in small country. Those other competitions cater to bigger markets domestically & even overseas. Contrast of player pools means winning Asian championship greater achievement than winning premiership flag.
 

Established1870

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A long long long time.

In my mind Tas and Canberra are next of the rank.

Still nice to talk about though.
After Tasmania and Canberra, and unless the NT have a bullet proof business plan, NSW and QLD would surely be the only areas of expansion the AFL care about. And you're right that it is nice to talk about. Seeing the sport grow in the northern states is a great thing to see.
 

NoobPie

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Afl figures on that page are correct as per 2019 - there is no reason to disbelieve others unless you don't trust something because its foreign. Page clearly states league revenue.
Do you even know what Wiki is? I could go on there right now and make the A League the biggest league by revenue in the world and put a link to the Western Sydney Wanderers financial statement just for kicks....$8.3M US

The AFL has revenues of $792M as per the annual report

The AFL clubs total revenue is $1.1B

AFL distribution to clubs was $315M so the total AFL Revenue is $1.55B

I could go an put that in now at 940m euro and it would be far more correct than what is in the for most of the leagues

I am not trusting the revenues stated for the leagues you mentioned because basic research can demonstrate they are incorrect. I showed links demonstrating that

J League's actual revenues are equivalent to 690M euros which would be the closest. As I linked before, the K League is less than half of that.

China has slightly more TV revenue than J League but would get far far less at the gate. Serious financial analysis does not consider wealthy owners pouring millions into a company as "revenue".


There are some big clubs in those competitions which cater to large markets. One marquee player is earning 26 million euro which is about same salary as 3 afl clubs. Plus given size of countries lots of sponsorship potential - we see what afl will do for just a vwry tiny small piece of that.
None of the clubs are as big as the big AFL clubs. Whatever you think the potential is the AFL is comfortably bigger in revenues, attendances, TV deals etc than any asian soccer competition.

Prestige of afl means nothing outside of this country & even outside 3 southern states really. J League would have greater profile world wide. Asian championship covers huge area in terms of population - afl is simply can't compare to this.

Point I am making not too subtlety is that Australia is really small compared to rest of world. I dispute blanket statement best athletes go to afl - soccer is No. 1 participation in Australia & above riverina it's a niche sport. But think about this; soccer has its pick of athletic talent from Europe, Africa, South & Central America & Asia.
Nobody here disputes that soccer is big globally. Facts are soccer isn't a central part of asian culture and all the good players end up in europe anyway. And, like I said, if a plastic franchise can be formed and win the Asian champions league in 18 months, no further evidence is required that this is a very very shallow sporting field.

Truth is though your tiny weeny plastic franchise is dwarfed by the two AFL clubs in Sydney. 90K members between them and $100M in revenue. More revenue flows through the two Sydney AFL clubs than the entire A-League! The delicious truth is that the very fact you are here means we know this reality is a massive punch in the guts to you!

It must be unbearable to live like this. I recommend you just get on board with the Giants as they get bigger and bigger. Support a real football club
 

Johnny Bananas

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There is wide acceptance that RL has had an "image problem" with many people, re behavioural standards on & off field, for many years. RL officials & MSM RL experts etc. have admitted this. It is incontrovertible that the image problem is a contributing factor to the long term, significant decline in male RL regd. contact nos. in NSW, ACT, & Qld.
Funnily enough, I see Fox Sports has run an article devoted entirely to assaults that happened this weekend at grassroots rugby games (both codes).

 

Established1870

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So?? I can point out afl has inflated position on list based on broadcasting rights bubble. Afl is regional sport played exclusively in small country. Those other competitions cater to bigger markets domestically & even overseas.
The CSL, K-League and J-League have SFA broadcasting deals because no one gives a sh*t about those leagues. The AFL has a huge broadcasting deal because it's a gargantuan in this country and they actually know how to market themselves.
 

Pippen94

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Do you even know what Wiki is? I could go on there right now and make the A League the biggest league by revenue in the world and put a link to the Western Sydney Wanderers financial statement just for kicks....$8.3M US

The AFL has revenues of $792M as per the annual report

The AFL clubs total revenue is $1.1B

AFL distribution to clubs was $315M so the total AFL Revenue is $1.55B

I could go an put that in now at 940m euro and it would be far more correct than what is in the for most of the leagues

I am not trusting the revenues stated for the leagues you mentioned because basic research can demonstrate they are incorrect. I showed links demonstrating that

J League's actual revenues are equivalent to 690M euros which would be the closest. As I linked before, the K League is less than half of that.

China has slightly more TV revenue than J League but would get far far less at the gate. Serious financial analysis does not consider wealthy owners pouring millions into a company as "revenue".




None of the clubs are as big as the big AFL clubs. Whatever you think the potential is the AFL is comfortably bigger in revenues, attendances, TV deals etc than any asian soccer competition.



Nobody here disputes that soccer is big globally. Facts are soccer isn't a central part of asian culture and all the good players end up in europe anyway. And, like I said, if a plastic franchise can be formed and win the Asian champions league in 18 months, no further evidence is required that this is a very very shallow sporting field.

Truth is though your tiny weeny plastic franchise is dwarfed by the two AFL clubs in Sydney. 90K members between them and $100M in revenue. More revenue flows through the two Sydney AFL clubs than the entire A-League! The delicious truth is that the very fact you are here means we know this reality is a massive punch in the guts to you!

It must be unbearable to live like this. I recommend you just get on board with the Giants as they get bigger and bigger. Support a real football club
Ha, soccer is global so lots of eyes would be on that wiki page - any mistakes would quickly be corrected. Dismissing information because reference is in another language is the most afl thing ever.

Like I said, broadcast rights bubble is reason afl ranks on that list - like talent pool the market it caters to is small compared those other leagues. Wonder if you know viewership for CSL??

Interesting those two juggernauts played last week to only 50k fans on FTA in home town. One of them is entirely dependent on afl for existence as stated in annual report & other only has support in oldest & slowest growing regions of city. This is coming from swans fan
 

General Giant

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Ha, soccer is global so lots of eyes would be on that wiki page - any mistakes would quickly be corrected. Dismissing information because reference is in another language is the most afl thing ever.

Like I said, broadcast rights bubble is reason afl ranks on that list - like talent pool the market it caters to is small compared those other leagues. Wonder if you know viewership for CSL??

Interesting those two juggernauts played last week to only 50k fans on FTA in home town. One of them is entirely dependent on afl for existence as stated in annual report & other only has support in oldest & slowest growing regions of city. This is coming from swans fan
Still more than what your mob get nationally and To be fair it was a sh*t game.
Do you know the Foxfooty figures for the telecast?

Lol you ain’t no Swans fan.
 

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