A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

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Professor Knowall

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This is what I am talking about ...
1. C. 7.3m fans attended AFL matches in 2019- & since 1970, c. 250m+ fans have attended the VFL/AFL. Whilst brawling occurs occasionally, the total no. of incidents are miniscule. AFAIK, there have been no stabbings (although some serious assaults do occur). AF has a good reputation.

In contrast, the multiple stabbing contributes to RL's "image problem". Even P. Rothfield described it as "a horrible story", & it has received wide coverage in various parts of the NSW MSM.

There is wide acceptance that RL has had an "image problem" with many people, re behavioural standards on & off field, for many years. RL officials & MSM RL experts etc. have admitted this. It is incontrovertible that the image problem is a contributing factor to the long term, significant decline in male RL regd contact nos. in NSW, ACT, & Qld. ...
I noted Pip's example of "AFL violence" was a bit of a fracas between a couple of supporters after the game and outside the stadium - and it occurred 17 months ago (couldn't find any recent examples?). It didn't involve any players, umpires or coaches or anything on-field (let alone stabbings).

Anyway I thought I'd check the media for anything that happened only just yesterday - and sure enough, there was plenty to report - a 12 yo rugby league player was sent to hospital after being punched in the face on the field by a brave 39 yo adult, a rugby league referee was punched in the face and knocked unconcious by a player during a match and a soccer player punched his coach in the face - just another Saturday in NSW.

No wonder the good people of NSW are turning more and more to our Australian game (though I suppose the bad people of NSW will still stubbornly resist) -
 
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Professor Knowall

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... This is coming from swans fan
Your posts are getting more and more humorous (or desperate). Amongst your 500+ posts, can you highlight the ones (or maybe just one) showing your devotion to the Swans?

And what do you like about our great Australian game that makes you such an enthusiastic supporter and not just a fearful troll??
 

Pippen94

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I noted Pip's example of "AFL violence" was a bit of a fracas between a couple of supporters after the game and outside the stadium - and it occurred 17 months ago (couldn't find any recent examples?). It didn't involve any players, umpires or coaches or anything on-field (let alone stabbings).

Anyway I thought I'd check the media for anything that happened only just yesterday - and sure enough, there was plenty to report - a 12 yo rugby league player was sent to hospital after being punched in the face on the field by a brave 39 yo adult, a rugby league referee was punched in the face and knocked unconious by a player during a match and a soccer player punched his coach in the face - just another Saturday in NSW.

No wonder the good people of NSW are turning more and more to our Australian game (though I suppose the bad people of NSW will still stubbornly resist) -
Last year afl brought in tough measures to combat crowd violence - how quick everyone forgets
 

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Professor Knowall

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Last year afl brought in tough measures to combat crowd violence - how quick everyone forgets
Oh yeah, we all remember the tough measures against the terrible "crowd violence" -
"... The Blues fan was ejected from Marvel Stadium for calling Mathew Nicholls a “ball-headed flog”. ... On Monday’s clash between Collingwood and Melbourne, a fan was spoken to by Victoria Police for barracking too loudly. ..."
"The AFL has been left a laughing stock over mixed messages surrounding an apparent overzealous crackdown on fan behaviour. ..."

Which in turn lead to a humiliating apology to AFL fans by Gil, admitting that fans had, in fact, been harassed by incompetent security workers (we know all about incompetent security firms in Victoria). So much for "AFL crowd violence" -

Meanwhile, just yesterday in rugby league and soccer - 12 year old kid, a referee and coach all punched in the face, sent to hospital ...
 
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Pippen94

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I noted Pip's example of "AFL violence" was a bit of a fracas between a couple of supporters after the game and outside the stadium - and it occurred 17 months ago (couldn't find any recent examples?). It didn't involve any players, umpires or coaches or anything on-field (let alone stabbings).

Anyway I thought I'd check the media for anything that happened only just yesterday - and sure enough, there was plenty to report - a 12 yo rugby league player was sent to hospital after being punched in the face on the field by a brave 39 yo adult, a rugby league referee was punched in the face and knocked unconcious by a player during a match and a soccer player punched his coach in the face - just another Saturday in NSW.

No wonder the good people of NSW are turning more and more to our Australian game (though I suppose the bad people of NSW will still stubbornly resist) -
 

Professor Knowall

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Did any of those happen just yesterday, Pip? And I'm still awaiting your reply to my questions -

"Amongst your 500+ posts, can you highlight the ones (or maybe just one) showing your devotion to the Swans?

And what do you like about our great Australian game that makes you such an enthusiastic supporter and not just a fearful troll??"
 

BobbyMorri

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Did any of those happen just yesterday, Pip? And I'm still awaiting your reply to my questions -

"Amongst your 500+ posts, can you highlight the ones (or maybe just one) showing your devotion to the Swans?

And what do you like about our great Australian game that makes you such an enthusiastic supporter and not just a fearful troll??"
well, that would be a bit hard to do with you know, this covid thing which is happening. Unless the plastic chairs are fighting.

not sure how a 3rd team in Sydney got to crowd violence in sport and which one is worse. It would be tougher to name a pro sport which doesnt have some incident with crowd violence.
 

NoobPie

Norm Smith Medallist
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Did any of those happen just yesterday, Pip? And I'm still awaiting your reply to my questions -

"Amongst your 500+ posts, can you highlight the ones (or maybe just one) showing your devotion to the Swans?

And what do you like about our great Australian game that makes you such an enthusiastic supporter and not just a fearful troll??"
I reckon you can ask concern troll extraordinaire who just responded to you the same questions. Except it's 7000 plus posts over 10 years :'(
 

Established1870

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Just gonna bring this around back to the title of the thread.

Would NSW 3/4 make more sense as Newcastle/Wollongong type teams in big regional areas or placing them closer to Sydney (or in Sydney itself)? Personally I think it'd make sense for the former as Newcastle and the Central Coast/Hunter Valley area in general is huge and Wollongong/Illawara is growing at a steady rate and would be better at getting footy into regional areas rather then just keeping AFL and the game itself confined to Sydney.
 

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BobbyMorri

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I reckon you can ask concern troll extraordinaire who just responded to you the same questions. Except it's 7000 plus posts over 10 years :'(
you are more than welcome to post on the tennis forum. The US Open starts in a week or so time. friendly discussion is always welcome...

and I dont post much on the swans board. If I had feelings on the swans(most of what is negative atm, horse out!), you can search for it using the search function. top right.
 

NoobPie

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Just gonna bring this around back to the title of the thread.

Would NSW 3/4 make more sense as Newcastle/Wollongong type teams in big regional areas or placing them closer to Sydney (or in Sydney itself)? Personally I think it'd make sense for the former as Newcastle and the Central Coast/Hunter Valley area in general is huge and Wollongong/Illawara is growing at a steady rate and would be better at getting footy into regional areas rather then just keeping AFL and the game itself confined to Sydney.
I would think so (newcastle / hunter) but more I really don't see a big benefit of putting a third team in Sydney. Going from 1 to 2 gives you are two-team-town rivalry long term and it hedges against a period of poor form in one team (though the Queensland teams last decade proved that hedge is not fool proof). Diminishing returns kick in big time going from 2 to 3 clubs though.

Just let the Swans and the Giants get as big as possible - worse thing that happens is you have two more "big" clubs. If that happens you might set a team up in Newcastle and give them every where from the central coast up to the mid north coast and new england as academy zones. Probably 1.5 million people.
 

Established1870

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I would think so (newcastle / hunter) but more I really don't see a big benefit of putting a third team in Sydney. Going from 1 to 2 gives you are two-team-town rivalry long term and it hedges against a period of poor form in one team (though the Queensland teams last decade proved that hedge is not fool proof). Diminishing returns kick in big time going from 2 to 3 clubs though.

Just let the Swans and the Giants get as big as possible - worse thing that happens is you have two more "big" clubs. If that happens you might set a team up in Newcastle and give them every where from the central coast up to the mid north coast and new england as academy zones. Probably 1.5 million people.
I don't see a benefit for a third Sydney team either for the reasons you've said unless somewhere big enough in Sydney blows up in AR fandom and participation rates. The only reason Sydney 3 works over Newcastle or Illawara/Wollongong is because of the corporate possibilities (see; money). Other then that, I'd rather the AFL grow the game in NSW's big regional areas and eventually put teams there. 4 NSW teams, 3 QLD teams and a Canberra side would be my main aim if I was in charge.
 

NoobPie

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I don't see a benefit for a third Sydney team either for the reasons you've said unless somewhere big enough in Sydney blows up in AR fandom and participation rates. The only reason Sydney 3 works over Newcastle or Illawara/Wollongong is because of the corporate possibilities (see; money). Other then that, I'd rather the AFL grow the game in NSW's big regional areas and eventually put teams there. 4 NSW teams, 3 QLD teams and a Canberra side would be my main aim if I was in charge.
Even if Sydney blows up in AR fandom you would only by then be carving in to the existing club support. Consider the conversation in the other thread about the low prospects of a third WA team. That's the paradox, the only reason you would add a team anywhere is to expand support in that region.
 

Established1870

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Even if Sydney blows up in AR fandom you would only by then be carving in to the existing club support. Consider the conversation in the other thread about the low prospects of a third WA team. That's the paradox, the only reason you would add a team anywhere is to expand support in that region.
I agree but one key difference between Sydney and Perth is footy is 2nd (or 3rd) fiddle in the city whilst footy in the other is the dominant sport by far. Nonetheless, I'm on your side that a third Sydney side would just eat into GWS and the Swans too much and not create a point of difference which is important for new supporters which is another reason why I think Newcastle and Illawara/Wollongong should be 3 and 4.
 

madmug

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You are talking my language here !!

Sydney Swans
GWS Giants
Northern Sydney Pirates
Central Coast Bowerbirds
Illawarra Sea Snakes

I reckon there could be a relocation out of Melbourne to one of the new entities too.
In all due respects, north Sydney, Central Coast, Wollongong could not even support their favorite sport of NRL. So HTF could an AFL club start, let alone survive in those places???
 

NoobPie

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Is your report button broken?
Nah, I am happy enough just to "self regulate" the trolls, personally.

I just think if you want to maintain a high standard of decorum actually deal with the trolls in the first instance rather than issuing really lame "first and final" decrees

Otherwise you are just empowering petty little weasels who concern troll and then report any vaguely negative response
 

RedV3x

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In all due respects, north Sydney, Central Coast, Wollongong could not even support their favorite sport of NRL. So HTF could an AFL club start, let alone survive in those places?
Well that's what they said before the Sydney Swans, Brisbane Lions, Gold Coast Suns and the Sydney Giants came along.
Australian Football is played in all of those places you mentioned - it's already started. it's a process of development.
AFL is not NRL. It's a different league, different people, different preferences and different habits - it's a different game.
 

BringBackTorps

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Would NSW 3/4 make more sense as Newcastle/Wollongong type teams in big regional areas or placing them closer to Sydney (or in Sydney itself)? Personally I think it'd make sense for the former as Newcastle and the Central Coast/Hunter Valley area in general is huge and Wollongong/Illawara is growing at a steady rate and would be better at getting footy into regional areas
There are 8,500,000 reasons why the 3rd team in NSW should be in Sydney- the ABS estimates Sydney will have a pop. of 8,500,000 in 2050!
It would be absurd- & an admission of abject failure to promote AF properly- if Sydney in 2050 had only 2 AFL clubs.

Newcastle is RL & soccer heartland- the Knights & Jets (when they are successful) attract home crowds of 25k+ & 15k+ respectively.
GR AF is weak in Newcastle & the Hunter (although growing strongly off a low base eg amazingly, it has 17 snr female teams). The Central Coast is probably the weakest for GR AF in NSW, excluding New England in the NW.

I doubt whether Wollongong/Illawarra is big & wealthy enough to have its own, "expensive" AFL club by 2050.
I support, however, impecunious Melb. clubs selling 2-4 home games pa to be played there, against a 20th new South Sydney Canberra (Kooka'Burras or Cannons) combined AFL Club- 6 games based in Campbelltown /5 in Canberra pa.
The SSC FC would & should only be created after GWS regularly (after 2030?) attracts lockout crowds at Giants Stadium.

I also support Melb. clubs selling Home games to Newcastle, 2-4 pa. The lure of AFL & Big Bash/ "minor" Test games should be sufficient to upgrade/enlarge the Newcastle ground.


The only reason Sydney 3 works over Newcastle or Illawara/Wollongong is because of the corporate possibilities (see; money)[Absolutely!]
Exactly! It costs a lot of money to run an AFL club! The ability to, eventually, become independent financially/attract major sponsors etc. is extremely important. It is a crucial consideration for the AFL, when it decides to grant a Licence in NSW, ACT, or Qld. (particularly given the profligacy of greedy overspending of all the Club Football Departments).

Sydney is easily Australia's wealthiest city, on average wages- ditto property values. Canberra has Australia's highest median wage (due to having so many overpaid public servants in recession-proof cushy jobs. Canberra average property prices amazingly are, currently, slightly rising!).

Sydney has the HQ's of:-
. all the MSM cos. (even Seven, owned by Perth-based K. Stokes).

. c. 50% of the top ASX 300 Listed Companies

. c. 50% internationally based companies which establish operations in Aust.

. advertising agencies which handle 50%+ of Australia's total advertising expenditures.

. Furthermore, the hourly Prime Time advertising rates in Sydney are, easily, the highest in Australia.

Sydney has considerable & crucial "influence"; & Canberra, obviously, has considerable & crucial political power. It is too risky for the AFL not to have a 3rd team, & very strong presence, in both areas.


I would think so (newcastle / hunter) but more I really don't see a big benefit of putting a third team in Sydney.

Just let the Swans and the Giants get as big as possible - worse thing that happens is you have two more "big" clubs. If that happens you might set a team up in Newcastle and give them every where from the central coast up to the mid north coast and new england as academy zones. Probably 1.5 million people.
Sydney will simply be too big by 2050- pop. 8.5m, & it's essential for it to have a 3rd Club. Campbelltown is just too far from the CBD- 53km; & too far from Sydney's WS (43km by road to Homebush Stadium).

Sydney's SS & SW will need their own club, as part of a combine with Canberra. Sydney's mid SW is weak for GR AF, but Campbelltown, Camden areas are having good AF GR growth.
ACT GR AF is having strong GR growth, & has probably now exceded its regd. nos previous record high from the 1980's (After the NRL Raiders entered, AF lost its ascendancy in Canberra city).


I don't see a benefit for a third Sydney team either for the reasons you've said unless somewhere big enough in Sydney blows up in AR fandom and participation rates [Exactly, jnr participation is booming now]
The Sydney metro area is booming for GR jnr AF, with c. 13,500+ regd. club comp. players. This does not include an additional c. 7k club Auskick players.
(These nos. don't include primary & secondary school- both govt. & private- comp. AF players, which are also growing strongly).

As most of the growth is in Club Auskick (5 y.o. -8 y.o.) & Club jnrs aged 8 y.o. -11 y.o., we can accurately predict that in c.10 years, there will be c. 28k regd. Club comp. players in Sydney metro. And a similar % increase in Club Auskick nos.

The (Swans) Sydney Harbour Junior FL is tracking to become the largest single Junior FL in Australia- extraordinary!
(With the help of inner WS Clubs Western Suburbs Magpies- Croydon Park, Concord, Canada Bay, Glebe, Leichardt, & Drummoyne (also plays in Five Dock) JFC's, who are all in the Sydney Harbour comp.- along with some NW jnr AF Clubs).



Is your report button broken?
Why are you not specifically answering (by addressing the issues he raised) Noobie Pie's question about BF allowing Pippen to , obviously, troll BF & AF?
Your inaction simply encourages trolling, some of which is vile.
 
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