A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

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BringBackTorps

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Jan 5, 2017
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So they managed to boost numbers in a regional area without putting a team there?[Incorrect. Penrith joined their neighbours- & put a "team"etc. there]
Actually the opposite- Penrith has expanded its "territory", to the adjoining Central West.
Penrith has cleverly repositioned itself as (unofficially) Penrith Central West RL Club; & is reaping the rewards in improving greatly GR RL in the Central West, & elite recruiting nos.

Nearly all people have an innate desire to be part of a group, a desire to belong to something bigger, an emotional desire for group security & group advancement... a need to admire local successes, with local role models to aspire to- & want to join/celebrate/commiserate, as part of the collective.

GR & elite AF clubs all over Australia have tapped successfully into these innate desires for 160+ years. These local identifications are an intrinsic part of their collective memories/folk lore/celebrations. It's called "tribalism"- you might have heard of it.
Or are you claiming tribalism doesn't apply to Tasmanians?

Penrith have very successfully fully embraced the adjoining Central West, by

. all local GR RL clubs in the CW now have "Penrith" branding on their jerseys; & Penrith-branded clinics at Clubs & schools etc.

. closer CW club social media connections with Penrith Panthers; & Penrith social media with the CW- "you are part of us".

. setting up elite Academies at Bathurst, Dubbo, & Forbes

. many Penrith Club & individual player visits there (Seven of Penrith's last 22 debutants are from the CW).

. playing games in Bathurst (until, at least, 2028).

. generally encouraging people in the Central West to identify with "their" close neighbouring Club, Penrith.

A Tas. AFL team would generate even more GR male AF club & school comp. growth in Tas., as it is a separate State, not even on the mainland.
It has its own, obviously, very strong State traditions & history, & its own very separate State identity.

A Tas. 19th team will certainly increase Tas. AFL Draft nos. (in quality, as well as numerical terms)- based on its incredible & fabled past as a recruitment goldmine of champions, stars, & many good players for the VFL & AFL.

You have conveniently ignored my points re Swans, Brisbane, GC, & GWS (ACT, as well as its other NSW Zones) having greatly improved local AF GR, & elite players being drafted into the AFL.
The same, obviously, would occur when Tas. gets its own team. This is the main reason why McLachlan & Demetriou (inc. recently) have said "When the AFL expands next, Tasmania will probably be the next team to join". Ditto R. Oakley. It is inevitable.
 
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BringBackTorps

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Jan 5, 2017
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This 25.6.20 article from a The Roar "Guru" M. Scarfe argues convincingly that in Sydney, on important metrics, the AFL & GR AF is making much more progress there than GR RL & the NRL. There is some good engagement between Scarfe, & those he directly responds to in the Comments' Section.

An editor wrote the clickbait heading, which is misleading. RL clearly leads on all current metrics in Sydney on raw nos., apart from having fewer GR female contact RL players, cf GR female AF players. However, in Sydney's NS, ES, & inner WS, GR AF regd. comp. nos. surpass GR RL contact nos.

Scarfe has written about many different sports, & his bio states he is interested in sports' media, broadcasting, & the business of sport.




EDIT:

I just noticed some RL fans in the Comments' Section claiming NRL Teams, playing in Sydney, average a total of 125k-150k pw, for the H & A season; & downplaying the good AFL crowd averages in Sydney. No one has queried these RL nos.!

As the NRL H & A crowd average was c. 16k in 2019, & as Sydney has 9.5 clubs (St George shares home games with Wollongong), this is an average of 4.5 games played in Sydney pw. A total weekly crowd average (not inc. Finals) in Sydney of c. 85k pw- is this correct?
(Sydney weekly average not including lower drawing Home games that Sydney NRL Clubs take to regions outside of Sydney eg Bathurst, Darwin etc.; nor inflated Magic Round averages).

As Sydney averaged c. 32k, & GWS c. 13k, in 2019 for their home games in Sydney, & are recent entrants in Sydney (cf RL clubs up to 110 years old), the AFL averages are good.
 
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kaypee

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This 25.6.20 article from a The Roar "Guru" M. Scafe argues convincingly that in Sydney, on important metrics, the AFL & GR AF is making much more progress there than GR RL & the NRL. There is some good engagement between Scarfe, & those he directly responds to in the Comments' Section.

An editor wrote the clickbait heading, which is misleading. RL leads on all current metrics in Sydney on raw nos., apart from having fewer GR female contact RL players, cf GR female AF players. However, in Sydney's NS, ES, & inner WS, GR AF regd. comp. nos. surpass GR RL contact nos.

Scafe has written about many different sports, & is interested in sports' media, broadcasting, & the business of sport.


The Roar is complete garbage. Exist only to get hits for wannabe sports writers and seems to rely on crap code war articles for relevance. it should ditch AFL altogether.
 

TWLS

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The Roar is complete garbage. Exist only to get hits for wannabe sports writers and seems to rely on crap code war articles for relevance. it should ditch AFL altogether.
Anybody good at maps - Would like to see the Sydney areas designated above as having good AR development shown on a overall Sydney map so we can get context. Anybody ???.
 

Kwality

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Only 7 clubs in the AFL have pokies now- HFC, EFC, Carlton, RFC, & StK FC; & Brisbane & Port. R. Goyder has said it is AFL preference that all AFL Clubs divest themselves of this vlie revenue.
Melbourne Footy Club have theirs hidden under the Bentleigh Club
 

RedV3x

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Dec 14, 2015
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He really doesnt
Yes, the article is an abbreviated historical recap.
The one thing the author doesn't do is to backup the title statement.
The author seems to intimate that investment will leverage an AFL "win".
The NRL, like any incumbent has the media and the sentiment on it's side.
I'd like to think that Australian Football is a better a game to watch and play so it will win out eventually
but it will be a generational change as young people make a choice.
Where people have a choice - Australian Football does really well.
 

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BringBackTorps

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1. TripleM P. Kent & J. Hooper 24.3.19

Kent said to Hooper (in the linked video "Intense Debate On Relocation")


"If Manly is so important to the NRL...why are Manly's junior recruitment teams are coming out of Blacktown (c. 34 kms west of CBD)... & have the second lowest membership in the NRL. They have a core of 3000 (I assume 3000 Manly full season members) who turn up every week".

"Things change. 15 to 20 years, Manly was a junior stronghold, they had great juniors, & a lot of footy in that area. It was a real rugby league area. ...Manly juniors, their State League team, comes from Blacktown Workers (WS NSW/Canterbury Cup team- ie NRL Reserves comp. My words & emphases)) That's where they bring their juniors".

(Click on video, then go to 1 minute 10 seconds - 1 min. 40 secs; & 2 mins. 50 secs. - 3 mins. 15 secs).

Many MSM NRL experts, & Nine & Foxtel executives, believe there is insufficient talent in 2nd tier RL to be able to expand to 17 teams- otherwise, the standard of the NRL will drop to unacceptable levels: ratings will then decline.
Nearly all experts, however, want a 2nd NRL team in Brisbane, so there are discussions if a Sydney NRL team should relocate to Brisbane, or merge with another Sydney NRL team- to retain a 16- team comp.




2. It is my understanding Asquith RL Club (c. 25kms north of Sydney, most of its junior teams are in the North Sydney District RL comp.) will not field a senior team in 2021, due to temporary financial difficulties.
It also withdrew in 2020 from the snr R. Massey & Sydney Shield combined comps.- which fielded only c. 20 teams in total in 2020, covering all Sydney, & also including the Newcastle & Wollongong areas.

Some of the Asquith jnr RL older male contact teams are compelled to play in a Sydney jnr Combined comp. (including teams from the WS) due to lack of teams in the NS. This is common for numerous older (from U13) jnr male contact teams in the NS, ES, & inner WS.
Some other RL clubs simply cant field contact teams from U14 onwards, or they merge their own teams with an adjoining RL team- so all are able to continue playing contact RL.

In 2019, there were very few snr GR RL clubs remaining in Sydney's NS & ES- re senior teams, the North Sydney District RL comp., & Manly-Warringah District RL comp., were defunct. The Eastern Suburbs GR snr comp. became defunct many years ago, & has few jnr GR contact teams.

GR AF growth has, of course, been very strong since 2012 all over Sydney- inc. the NS ( & Nthn. Beaches' area).
 
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BringBackTorps

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1. Forest JFC (in Frenchs Forest, in Sydney's NS) has U10, U12, U14, U16 (2 teams) & U18 girls' teams.
In its website, it states

"Girls in the Forest...have the opportunity to get in on the ground floor, at an exciting time...with a clear pathway to a national competition (AFLW- my words & emphasis) for any girls that want to take their sport as far as possible".


Female club & school AF in Sydney's NS, ES, & inner WS is booming; & to a lesser extent in the WS, on a much smaller base (However, the Inner WS Clubs, even Magpies based in Croydon Park 10kms SW of CBD, are playing in the Swans-affiliated Sydney Harbour JFL- not the Giants WS jnr comp.).

Many clubs playing in the Sydney Harbour JFL express similar comments on their websites etc about the crucial importance of the AFLW, & female pathways.
Even though the Swans do not have its own AFLW team, female AF is still booming in the Swans' zone.

Based on the experience in other parts of Australia, when the Swans do obtain their own AFLW team, it is virtually certain female GR AF in their Sydney zone will be further turbocharged. Local role models!
For many areas of the NS & ES, it is too onerous to travel to the WS, where the Giants AFLW team & elite female snr training etc. is based.

Whilst the Swan have established jnr female Academies, even though they are having some difficulties with their facilities, when the AFLW next expands beyond 14 teams, Sydney should be the next to join (almost certainly before 2024).
Female AF GR growth in Australia would be most benefitted by Sydney having the next team- Vic. already has 8 AFLW teams.




2. Qld., in 2016, had more regd. female AF players than Vic- amazing for a RL state. From the AFLW's birth in 2017, Vic. has surpassed Qld., which is now 2nd biggest in Australia.

The link below is Part 1 of a 3 Part Series ("Women Made This Happen") which attempts, in great detail, to explain this extraordinary Qld. female phenomenon.
I am including it here, since many of the strategies expounded on would be equally beneficial for the growth of female AF in NSW & the ACT. I assume they are attempting to replicate these strategies- notwithstanding there is no AFLW team in the Swans' zone (by far the stronghold for AF in Sydney).

(See my post#368)
 
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TWLS

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1. Forrest JFC ( in Frenchs Forrest, in Sydney's NS) has U10, U12, U14, U16 & U18 girls' teams.
In its website, it states

"Girls in the Forrest...have the opportunity to get in on the ground floor, at an exciting time...with a clear pathway to a national competition (AFLW- my words & emphasis) for any girls that want to take their sport as far as possible".


Female club & school AF in Sydney's NS, ES, & inner WS is booming; & to a lesser extent in the WS, on a much smaller base (However, the Inner WS Clubs, even Magpies based in Croydon Park 10kms SW of CBD, are playing in the Swans-affiliated Sydney Harbour JFL- not the Giants WS jnr comp.).

Many clubs playing in the Sydney Harbour JFL express similar comments on their websites etc about the crucial importance of the AFLW, & female pathways.
Even though the Swans do not have its own AFL team, female AF is still booming in the Swans' zone.
Based on the experience in other parts of Australia, when the Swans do obtain their own AFLW team, it is virtually certain female GR AF in their Sydney zone will be further turbocharged. Local rolemodels8
For many areas of the NS & ES, it is too onerous to travel to the WS, where the Giants AFLW team & elite female snr training etc. is based.

Whilst the Swan have established jnr female Academies, even though they are having some difficulties with their facilities, when the AFLW next expands beyond 14 teams, Sydney should be the next to join (almost certainly before 2024).
Female AF GR growth in Australia would be most benefitted by Sydney having the next team- Vic. already has 8 AFLW teams.




2. Qld., in 2016, had more regd. female AF players than Vic- amazing for a RL state. From the AFLW's birth in 2017, Vic. has surpassed Qld., which is now 2nd biggest in Australia.

The link below is Part 1 of a 3 Part Series ("Women Made This Happen") which attempts, in great detail, to explain this extraordinary female phenomenon.
I am including it here, since many of the strategies expounded on would be equally beneficial for the growth of female AF in NSW & the ACT. I assume these strategies are being replicated, notwithstanding there is no AFLW team in the Swans' zone- by far the stronghold for AF in Sydney.

(See my post#368)
Checked out the Forest AFL site. There are 74 grounds across Sydney ????? that are deemed suitable for Wet Weather Football on that website.
Does that mean there are other grounds available suitable for dry weather football only as well. If so that would that mean that new found doors are being opened up there to our game.
We dont have that weather problem in WA now - All sandy soils generally, and a huge winter rainfall reduction since the 1970's, and getting drier.
 

BringBackTorps

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2017
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There are 74 grounds across Sydney ????? that are deemed suitable for Wet Weather Football on that website.
Does that mean there are other grounds available suitable for dry weather football only as well. If so that would that mean that new found doors are being opened up there to our game.
1. Yes, there are other AF ovals in Sydney that are not suitable for wet weather AF matches. There are other AF ovals not included in the list below of 74 Sydney AF wet weather-designated ovals.




2. In Sydney in 2019, the only remaining GR snr District Rugby League comps., where all snr teams played only within their District, were the Penrith District RL & the South Sydney District RL . The long term decline in clubs & male contact nos. meant all the other Sydney GR snr teams had to play in the Sydney Combined comps., playing all over Sydney (inc. R. Massey & Sydney Shield comps.).

There were only 6 GR snr Clubs left in the Manly Warringah District RL in 2019.

North Sydney District RL has collapsed- Asquith the last GR snr Club? C. 20 years ago, the North Sydney District RL had c. 25 GR snr teams (not Clubs).

In 2019, the Paramatta District RL (now snrs play in the Combined comp.), once considered a RL GR behemoth, had only 10 snr GR teams.

It is my understanding that in 2018, the Western Suburbs District RL, Balmain District RL, & Canterbury Bankstown District RL had, in total, only 9 GR snr teams between them.
St George District RL had nil snr GR teams. It has a few snr teams in a Combined comp. It has 9 jnr GR Clubs, up to U12; from U13, due to their small no. of teams, they must relocate to a Sydney Combined comp.

Playing in the Combined comps. greatly increases the distance teams have to travel, & the travelling time it takes when playing Away. This onerous requirement, in Sydney's congested & slow moving road system, is very likely to exacerbate the decline in RL teams & player nos.
RU has similar problems- so does snr GR AF, but GR AF is having significant growth.

In 2020, due to covid (& probably because some semi-pro RL clubs said they would make nil or minimal payments), the no. of GR Snr teams contracted severely for this season.

I suspect that the RL & RU declining male nos., & decline of Clubs will eventually result in more of these underused grounds converted to AF ovals (where practicable).

These are all the 12 RL Districts in Sydney- which includes the names of each GR RL Club within each District.


Sydney GR RL Clubs also now have multiple non-contact League Tag teams.






EDIT:

These are the new AF oval developments in NSW in 2020.

 
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