A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

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flamingEMBERS

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Initially i thought so too but on balance it was the obvious choice.
South Fremantle plays out of Fremantle Oval.
I couldn't see any major developments being made at Fremantle Oval.
The locals would probably object to any East Fremantle Oval developments.
The Dockers have leveraged excellent training facilities out of whoever.
It is a boost to Cockburn, the centre of a large somewhat neglected area.
It's too much to expect AFL, AFLW and WAFL to share the same ground.

IMO, the WCE moving to Lathlain hasn't had the impact that would have happened by developing a NOR ground.
Should have moved back to Subi once the demolition was done

Not sure where else they could have gone though. Nothing really close to the city unless they purpose built something but where?
 

RedV3x

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Not sure where else they could have gone though. Nothing really close to the city unless they purpose built something but where?
IMO it's not important to be close to the city. It's probably more important to be close to good transport access.
Considering they rebuilt Lathlain, they could have done that in any number of locations.
 

Aussie in exile

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I actually think gws should play a couple of games there each year when a new Canberra snsw team comes in.
If the AFL decide to put a team in Canberra they won't want to dilute the support for the club by letting in another AFL to make several appearances a season there with on the road games. They will want all fans in the area focused on one team
 

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Bjo187

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If the AFL decide to put a team in Canberra they won't want to dilute the support for the club by letting in another AFL to make several appearances a season there with on the road games. They will want all fans in the area focused on one team
That post was referring to Newcastle.
 

Rob

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I have noticed consistently your negative comments about the Joondalup region. Very strange IMHO. I think the Dockers moving to Cockburn was a terrible idea - So what - They have made their bed and now they have to live with it.
Joondalup is simply Perth suburbia, no different to any other suburb with a big shopping centre and light commercial district like Booragoon, Cannington or Morley. It doesn't have any unique identity that people identify with that is going to get people en masse aboard a Joondalup team.

If you disagree, that's cool. The point of a forum is to argue about stuff. But I have to say, where Freo choose to have their training base isn't really relevant is it?
 

RedV3x

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Joondalup is simply Perth suburbia, no different to any other suburb with a big shopping centre and light commercial district like Booragoon, Cannington or Morley. It doesn't have any unique identity that people identify with that is going to get people en masse aboard a Joondalup team.
Joondalup was planned as a city but the planners didn't commit to a city.
A city needs a seperate identity with a demarcation of it's limits - separation, a green band, some physical delineation, something different.
Because suburbia stretches unbroken from Perth to Joondalup, the joondalup is a suburb of Perth.
Likewise Armadale and Guildford. Likewise Parramatta is a suburb of Sydney and not a strong historical city.
 

Rob

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Joondalup was planned as a city but the planners didn't commit to a city.
A city needs a seperate identity with a demarcation of it's limits - separation, a green band, some physical delineation, something different.
Because suburbia stretches unbroken from Perth to Joondalup, the joondalup is a suburb of Perth.
Likewise Armadale and Guildford. Likewise Parramatta is a suburb of Sydney and not a strong historical city.
I agree to an extent, but I think the mistake planners made with Joondalup was that they mixed low density residential in with low density commercial and it ended up becoming a mish mash of nothing where not many people actually lived and most of the workers were in retail. Parramatta has a distinct CBD where lots of people work and their lives are based in and around it. It's not a comparable place.

In context, because few people feel any attachment to Joondalup - virtually no one that doesn't live in the suburb itself - why would anyone support a football team with that name? A Midland, Armadale or Rockingham team would get better support, because at least those places have an identity.
 

RedV3x

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Parramatta has a distinct CBD where lots of people work and their lives are based in and around it. It's not a comparable place.
Joondalup is not a comparable city to Parramatta but it is comparable as a lost entity.
 

BringBackTorps

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A. Anderson is from the small town of Sawtell (pop. c. 3600, 10kms south of Coffs Harbour, NSW mid north coast), & has a good chance of being drafted into the AFL on 25.11.21.
Numerous residents of his township came out to encourage him at 6 am on a recent Sunday morning, for a Draft time trial. Anderson said " “It’s pretty surreal to see the support that a little country town has for just a kid who dreams big.”

Anderson also said "To be a kid from a little country town in Sawtell to be invited and acknowledged as one of the best in Australia is pretty unreal...”.


The fact that the AFL is now attracting excellent athletes, & potential Draftees, from such small towns in RL-aligned NSW strongholds is testament to the significant GR AF growth occurring in NSW. It is likely that GR AF club & school comp. nos. in this region now equal, or surpass, GR contact RL club & school comp. nos.

AF was only introduced into the mid north coast in 1977- when the first exhibition game of AF was played in 1977, which occurred in the middle of the Coffs Harbour racetrack: "insurmountable" problems meant no oval could be made available for a "foreign" AF match. Players were dragooned form the University of New England Armidale, 400km round trip away, & tree saplings were cut down, to be used as rough goal posts, in this now legendary game. A local AF Comp. started in 1980.

Point 2, in the link below, has the background of this historic 1977 game.

 
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BringBackTorps

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1. The NRL & GR RL clubs are heavily promoting summer OzTag (a privately-run comp., which it bought out in 2016) amongst GR RL clubs etc.

eg Asquith JRLC facebook

"It so great we have community sport back, and what better way to keep the team together, and keep improving on your fitness and skills than playing Oz Tag.
It's also a great way for anyone wanting to put there toe in the water and join a team and try something new.
Asquith Magpies and Hornsby & St Ives Junior Oztag
have partnered up to offer all registered players a special discount.
Contact your team manager or the club for details....
See more "
May be an image of text



Non-contact Oztag plays under the same rules as the GR RL clubs' winter Tag comp.,non-contact League Tag.

Prior to 2021, when checking the winter GR RL fixtures, one could determine which teams were playing League Tag (LT)- the various age divisions were designated by the initials "LT". Contact & Tag teams were listed together, in each club's age group fixture.

In 2021, however, the RL fixtures, for Greater Sydney & Greater Brisbane (& others), have removed any "LT/Tag" descriptors- so it is not possible now to determine which are the non-contact teams!
In this Thread (& "What Are The Chances... " Thread), I have provided, previously, a breakdown of the 2019 & 2020 Greater Sydney & Greater Brisbane RL Fixtures club comps'. no. of contact teams- & no. of League Tag teams. This year, however, the descriptor "LT" has been removed also from those years!

This contact/non-contact analysis, therefore, can no longer be done.
(Choose any District RL comp., then click the "V" next to 2021, to show the 2020 Fixture details- but "LT" now removed from teams playing League Tag).

The RL Annual Reports do not provide the official, regd. contact RL player exact nos. either.

Oddly, the only exception I found to the above is the Cronulla Sutherland District Junior Rugby League fixtures which, in 2021, still deleniates which GR RL club teams are playing League Tag.

Worryingly for the NRL, 35% of the teams in the 2021 fixture of the Cronulla Sutherland JDRL comp., for U11 & U12 teams, are Tag- although RL teams have more players, cf RL club Tag teams.
We, probably, can deduce from this therefore, to solve this deliberate concealment of contact RL nos., that a similar Tag % pattern is applicable for other U11 & U12 teams in the RL fixtures throughout Greater Sydney & Greater Brisbane etc..

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/canberra.1247182/page-13#post-72815414
(Refer to my point 2 for details of the 2021 CSDRL fixture)

No sporting organisation in Aust. (inc. AFL) cross references player names for its various formats- so there is much double & triple counting of the same players in official regd. "participant" nos., thus inflating player nos. for all sports' organisations. Soccer, which runs for c. 46 wks pa & has far more formats, has the most double/triple counting of players.

For 2021, the NRL, as usual, proudly proclaims "record" nos. of official, regd. "participants" in NSW & Qld.- but it is not possible for outsiders to know the exact no. of jnr & snr contact players.








2. This is another reference to troubles some GR RL clubs are having in finding sufficient nos. of volunteers.

The Armidale district, New England NW NSW, is having to merge its jnr & snr RL teams into one organisation from 2022, due to a lack of volunteers.

 
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RedV3x

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The fact that the AFL is now attracting excellent athletes, & potential Draftees, from such small towns in RL-aligned NSW strongholds is testament to the significant GR AF growth occurring in NSW. It is likely that GR AF club & school comp. nos. in this region now equal, or surpass, GR contact RL club & school comp. nos.

AF was only introduced into the mid north coast in 1977- when the first exhibition game of AF was played in 1977, which occurred in the middle of the Coffs Harbour racetrack: "insurmountable" problems meant no oval could be made available for a "foreign" AF match. Players were dragooned form the University of New England Armidale, 400km round trip away, & tree saplings were cut down, to be used as rough goal posts, in this now legendary game. A local AF Comp. started in 1980.
If we look at the simple history of A.F. it started at ground zero in the 1850s. It then gained rapid appeal throughout the colonies except where it was discouraged. Later, in the 20th century, Australia was subjected to heavy and continuous immigration from around the world. A.F. was able to appeal to these immigrants or their offspring such that A.F. kept it's relative position across the board. This was shown in the last census when sporting numbers where collated. It showed that in Queensland that grassroots were relatively even despite r.l. being number one. In N.S.W. it showed that soccer was strongly number one with a large drop to r.l. and successive drops to other codes. In all other states, it was A.F. that was strongly number one with a large drop to soccer.

So this post and many like it hail the success of A.F. breaking new ground which is highly admirable and exciting but cam we necessarily say a junior sports person was going to play a particular sport by default just because it is popular in the region. I agree that in the NSW countryside it tends to be strongholds for r.l. based on history and the lack of population to support more options but in bigger towns i would be surprised if there weren't soccer options as well.

People are people and A.F. has appealed widely to people for it to be played at junior level in large numbers.
People are people and r.l. has not appealed widely to people for it to be played at junior level in large numbers.
In short, A.F. has largely "converted" people pre-disposed to follow soccer and r.l. hasn't.
A.F. is trying to do what it has done in the rest of Australia and that is appeal to people pre-disposed to follow soccer.
The fact that A.F. has produced an athlete in NSW that might have otherwise played r.l. sounds great for the "code wars"
but in effect it is more important to underline the establishment of A.F. clubs and leagues that
might have been drawn from otherwise soccer players and facilitated the production of an A.F. champion.
 

BringBackTorps

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1. It has been decided that, from 2022, the West Tigers District RL comp. (teams in the Macarthur SW Sydney area only) will merge with the Group 6 Regional District RL comp. (which covers the Southern Highlands, with Bowral being the biggest town- Bowral is c. 90 minutes car drive to Campbelltown, in outer SW Sydney).

The merger of the 2 comps. will apply only from U13 inc. to First Grade (elite Division of GR adult male contact RL)- & has been caused by the severe contraction in male contact RL nos. (Female contact RL is having, however, significant growth).

Whilst this will involve much more travel, it is beneficial for GR contact RL, as there will now be sufficient teams to allow for a comp. which has much more evenly balanced Divisions- which is more enjoyable for players, & assists retention, cf regular thrashings.

"Despite big clubs from Campbelltown, Glenfield and Liverpool set to prove challenging opposition in the new structure, Murphy said the biggest obstacle would be travel".
Mittagong JRLC President T. Murphy said

"Logistically is probably the biggest challenge for us," he explained.
"We're the most southern club in Group 6 and normally it would take us 40-50 minutes to Camden, Narellan or even Warragamba.
"Now you'll add on another half an hour to it and with our kids still playing against Group 6 teams, if you have two or three kids playing for the club, one might be in Picton and one might be down around Liverpool or Campbelltown".


As there are sufficient contact RL players up to U12 inc., the 2 comps. will not merge for these age groups.








2.
This was shown in the last census when sporting numbers where collated. It showed that in Queensland that grassroots were relatively even despite r.l. being number one.
This is incorrect, re Qld. club & school contact RL nos. which far exceed AF club & school comp. nos. in Qld.- can you provide a link?
The fluff nos. of one-off events, short term school phys.ed programs etc. can be ignored; as, also, persons who only play any sport once pa.

SEQ, generally strong for GR AF, should not be compared to the rest of Qld.

AF has a tiny following/almost non-existent in rural Qld.; & in most regional towns, it is very weak (excluding the Cairns District, strong for GR AF- & some coastal towns, where GR AF has a niche following, but has had good growth since 2017, & the creation of the AFLW).

People are people and r.l. has not appealed widely to people for it to be played at junior level in large numbers.
Contact RL, in NSW & Qld., does appeal widely to people for it to be played at jnr levels in large numbers.

In short, A.F. has largely "converted" people pre-disposed to follow soccer and r.l. hasn't.
It is my understanding that, in NSW & Qld. GR AF is attracting relatively very few players from immigrant first (or even second) generation backgrounds.
Admittedly, this is based on anecdotal evidence only- unlike Vic., WA, SA, in NSW & Qld., anglo-celtic surnames are very dominant in GR AF players.

A.F. is trying to do what it has done in the rest of Australia and that is appeal to people pre-disposed to follow soccer.
Yes- but with very limited success re player nos. from recent immigrant backgrounds, IMO, in NSW & Qld.
I suspect, however, this situation will greatly improve with each generation ie from the 3rd generation- simply because AF is such a great game, now being widely played by males & females, & caters to all body shapes.
 
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RedV3x

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This is incorrect,
So you're saying the ABS is wrong to "This was shown in the last census when sporting numbers where collated. It showed that in Queensland that grassroots were relatively even despite r.l. being number one.

SEQ, generally strong for GR AF, should not be compared to the rest of Qld.
I'm not the one doing that comparison am I.
I said "It (the ABS) showed that in Queensland that grassroots were relatively even despite r.l. being number one."
Obviously there will be differences within Queensland. Why bother to state this.

Contact RL, in NSW & Qld., does appeal widely to people for it to be played at jnr levels in large numbers.
So you're saying the ABS is wrong to "This was shown in the last census when sporting numbers where collated. It showed that in Queensland that grassroots were relatively even despite r.l. being number one.


Contact RL, in NSW & Qld., does appeal widely to people for it to be played at jnr levels in large numbers.
I said "People are people and r.l. has not appealed widely to people for it to be played at junior level in large numbers."
As compared to soccer in NSW and A.F. in the rest of Australia.

It is my understanding that, in NSW & Qld. GR AF is attracting relatively very few players from immigrant first (or even second) generation backgrounds.
Admittedly, this is based on anecdotal evidence only- unlike Vic., WA, SA, in NSW & Qld., anglo-celtic surnames are very dominant in GR AF players.
Where do you get this understanding from ? Where are your links to say such a thing ? yet more BBT opinion.

Admittedly, this is based on anecdotal evidence only
So you are just pulling this out of thin air like most of your other opinion.

unlike Vic., WA, SA, in NSW & Qld., anglo-celtic surnames are very dominant in GR AF players.
How can you continue to post this .........opinion.
You seem to have absolutely no understanding of Australian Football history or there history of Australia.

It is my understanding that, in NSW & Qld. GR AF is attracting relatively very few players from immigrant first (or even second) generation backgrounds.
Where do you get your "understanding from" ? Sounds like opinion to me.

Yes- but with very limited success re player nos. from recent immigrant backgrounds, IMO, in NSW & Qld.
FFS. I said "A.F. is trying to do what it has done in the rest of Australia and that is appeal to people pre-disposed to follow soccer."
So the AFL is well aware of the situation and attempting to rectify the situation which is not starting from level playing field.
Do you think that this is an overnight fix ?

I suspect, however, this situation will greatly improve with each generation ie from the 3rd generation- simply because AF is such a great game, now being widely played by males & females, & caters to all body shapes.
Well hurrah for you suspicion, anecdotally, there are already numerous examples of A.F. progress within the Sydney migrant community.

FFS BBT post differing thoughts in differing posts.
 

RedV3x

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It is my understanding that, in NSW & Qld. GR AF is attracting relatively very few players from immigrant first (or even second) generation backgrounds.
This will probably interest you and update you from "anecdotal evidence".

"The AFL’s plan for growth has long been to convince the children of migrants to take up the game and persuade their parents to watch and support the game."
 

BringBackTorps

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1.
BringBackTorps any chance of posting links to back up your opinions rather than just straight up posting your opinion/s as fact.

It’s getting boring reading the same opinion posted as a fact over and over again.
AFAIK, my posts probably have, on a pro rata basis, a much higher % of corroborating links, cf the vast majority of BF posters. Do you agree?

What % of your posts have a corroborating link?

What % of your posts do you criticise other posters for not providing sufficent, corroborating links?

You are free to ignore my posts, if you consider them boring.

Alternatively, if you disagree with any of my posts, why don't you give your reasons, & provide corroborating links of your opinions?






2.
This will probably interest you and update you from "anecdotal evidence".
AFL Draftees of Sudanese background are certainly overrepresented in the AFL, on a per capita basis.
I have stated on BF, previously, the AFL should try to recruit more Sudanese- background players. You have cherrypicked one immigrant group.

Your link actually supports the comments I made about the overrepresentation, on a per capita basis, of players from an anglo-celtic background in NSW GR AF.
 
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RedV3x

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AFL Draftees of Sudanese background are certainly overrepresented in the AFL, on a per capita basis.
Over-represented on what basis ?

"When they launched an academy for kids of a non-traditional AFL background, they hoped the athletically gifted kids of Sudanese migrants would be among them. Like they attracted the kids of Italian, Greek, Chilean, Lebanese, Albanian, Chinese and Macedonian migrants to the game, the AFL hoped the kids of African heritage would be drawn to football over basketball or soccer.

You have cherrypicked one immigrant group.
No, I just posted an AFL article.

Your link actually supports the comments I made about the overrepresentation, on a per capita basis, of players from an anglo-celtic background in NSW GR AF.
Where exactly is that support ?
I see a handful of names - some ethnic, some ethnic people with western names and others.
I don'T see anything like a comprehensive breakdown of A.F. players in N.S.W.
 
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robbieando

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1.
AFAIK, my posts probably have, on a pro rata basis, a much higher % of corroborating links, cf the vast majority of BF posters. Do you agree?
I don’t agree at all. You do not provide links for the majority of your posts, you repost the same thing over and over and over again across multiple threads and for the links that you do provide you either quote them out of context or quote them as your opinion/s dressed up as a fact.

My all means have an opinion but make it clear its your opinion. If its a fact provide a link for context. It’s pretty simple.

What % of your posts have a corroborating link?
A percentage between 0 and 100. It’s not about a number its about doing something the right way, something you have repeatedly ignored for years

What % of your posts do you criticise other posters for not providing sufficent, corroborating links?
Just this post and the last post so 2 posts out of 16,917 in 20 years on this board. But you can do your own maths.

Alternatively, if you disagree with any of my posts, why don't you give your reasons, & provide corroborating links of your opinions?
I have given my reasons why. But no point debating with someone who is doing so in such bad faith.
 

RedV3x

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I don’t agree at all. You do not provide links for the majority of your posts, you repost the same thing over and over and over again across multiple threads and for the links that you do provide you either quote them out of context or quote them as your opinion/s dressed up as a fact.

My all means have an opinion but make it clear its your opinion. If its a fact provide a link for context. It’s pretty simple.
This is not to discourage from posting BBT - you obviously spend a considerable amount of time on your efforts
but you are wasting a lot of impact with a scattergun approach.

I like you posts (more if they were edited).
Basically it is acknowledged by all that r.l. grassroots is shrinking
and A.F. has had considerable progress with male participation and spectacular progress with female participation.
Where we differ is in the degree/timeline and the interconnection.
IMO r.l. grassroots will continue to decline with certain exceptions but the impact will be low and slow for the NRL.
IMO A.F. grassroots will continue to develop at a good rate in the same areas with possibly greater impact.
I don't see any interconnection between the two codes for a very long time.
If anything, I see a greater connection between soccer and A.F. with current soccer participants
potentially more suited to A.F. than r.l.
 

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