A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

[Colonial]

They did with Blacktown.

If cricket can get a stadium in SW Sydney, that they can utilise, why wouldn't they do it ?.

SW Sydney is not spoiled for choices at all as far as stadiums go, they actually have nothing.

Ahh yes the stadium we got screwed on.
Invited to be part of a group to get it built by the then Mayor and NSW Cricket.
But then told we couldnt be there full time.
Yet fools believe we ditched them.



Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[footyfan1978]

I think people are underestimating the AFL on this, they have a foothold in WS, they will turn that foothold into a base for further advance, that advance will come in the form of another team, nothing can be surer, that team will come quicker than most people realise and IMO a quicker time frame than between the Swans and GWS.

IMO the AFL see Sydney as more important than any other market bar of course Melbourne.

I agree with most of that. Just think you are out of touch with getting the AFL will see the next step as bedding down what they have planted to grow in next couple of decades. They will keep watering that and will not risk uprooting what they all planted and what is planted now to grow is going to need a lot of nurturing to see the fruits of this labour. When they see a bountiful sustainable growth they will plant more seeds. This is going to take time.
You have got the cart before the horse in your wanting to get to the next stage.

 

[telsor]

Maybe, & as Ive said the AFL take a lot more out of Tasmania than they put in, & we dont even have a team!!!

The Melbourne teams can hardly complain. Only 2 made profits last year. It shows the over population of teams in a tight market. having to fight against each other shouldnt be happening. Anyway they are establishment so have the right to be as inefficient, lazy & unprofitable as they like.

The AFL, & the 4 clubs who made money will prop them up.

WA3 & Tas1

As I've said elsewhere, profit is a very nebulous term when it comes to not for profit organisations like football clubs, and usually is more a matter of budgeting than financial health. That said, which clubs made a bigger loss than they (effectively) paid to the AFL?

Agree that WA3 & Tas1 should be the 19th and 20th clubs.

 

[Garlic muncher]

I agree with most of that. Just think you are out of touch with getting the AFL will see the next step as bedding down what they have planted to grow in next couple of decades. They will keep watering that and will not risk uprooting what they all planted and what is planted now to grow is going to need a lot of nurturing to see the fruits of this labour. When they see a bountiful sustainable growth they will plant more seeds. This is going to take time.
You have got the cart before the horse in your wanting to get to the next stage.

I agree with that even though i am not a farmer!

Just think everyone has the time frames wrong, if people are thinking GWS will drag them from far in decent numbers in Sydney they are wrong.

Sydney people don't travel, there is no historical or generational support (like Southern states) to make people travel to Spotless when they live a fair way from it.

It will seem stupid compared to Melbourne but when Sydney does get its 3rd team it will be at a different stadium to the other 2 teams.

The Sydney Swans will probably always be the big brother in Sydney AFL circles, like the Crows and WCE in their respective states, so we should not be thinking that GWS needs to be as big as the Swans before we start planning for a third team.

 

[footyfan1978]

I agree with that even though i am not a farmer!

Just think everyone has the time frames wrong

This will be proved correct. You will think 2021, others like me will think 2038, others will think 2060, others will think never and others think 2032.
It will probably end up being 2036. We will all be wrong. I will be closest to the mark and as a result you will owe me a beer when we go watch Wollongong Warriors take on Sydney Swans in round one of 2036 season after we flown up that morning after watching Carlton unfurl our 26th flag the night before at MCG when we beat Richmond in season opener.

 

[Garlic muncher]

This will be proved correct. You will think 2021, others like me will think 2038, others will think 2060, others will think never and others think 2032.
It will probably end up being 2036. We will all be wrong. I will be closest to the mark and as a result you will owe me a beer when we go watch Wollongong Warriors take on Sydney Swans in round one of 2036 season after we flown up that morning after watching Carlton unfurl our 26th flag the night before at MCG when we beat Richmond in season opener.

I will be drinking light beer by then and my memory probably shot, so you could say any year and be right

 

[madmug]

I will be drinking light beer by then and my memory probably shot, so you could say any year and be right

You can start drinking now if you like. Wollongong Warriors, Never.

 

[footyfan1978]

Moss Vale Mozzies, coming to you in 2040 ?



Liverpool Lizards 2050 ?

Gosford Gorilla's 2055 ?

Newcastle Nighthawks 2060 ?

 

[madmug]

They did with Blacktown.

If cricket can get a stadium in SW Sydney, that they can utilise, why wouldn't they do it ?.

SW Sydney is not spoiled for choices at all as far as stadiums go, they actually have nothing.

Yes & Blacktown is in the western corridor not on the city's periphery. How much cricket & footy do they play their?

No one is going to build a stadium & set up an AFL club & cricket hub on the outer edge of the city. Would they do this in say Dandenong? No.

 

[Garlic muncher]

3rd Sydney team ?- just a matter of time - but where will it be ?


• The AFL Sydney Juniors is the largest junior AFL competition in NSW and one of the largest in Australia

• The AFL Sydney Juniors competition includes over 10,000 participants (7-18 year olds) and has a network of 50 + competing clubs

• The competition has grown by over 33% in 5 years. • Female & Youth Girls football is the fastest growing segment in our game

• 485 teams play in the rapidly expanding competition (increase from 329 in 2012)

• 10,000 people watched the AFL Sydney Juniors community grand final days across 4 venues

• Every weekend in season over 50 community venues run across Sydney – from Blue Mountains to Bondi and Hornsby to Waterfall

• The competition match days are very well supported by parents, grand parents, families and friends

• A further 3500 children (5-8 years) are also linked with junior club network participating in the NAB Auskick Program

• Strong links exist with the Sydney Swans and GWS GIANTS

• A diverse range of participants from various multicultural backgrounds

• 1.9 million page views to the AFL Sydney juniors website- 2015 (18% growth from 2014)

http://aflnswact.com.au/wp-content/...iors-Partnership-Discussion-November-2016.pdf

**BTW happy new year to everyone

 

[The_Wookie]

Well you're the one blaming the AFL for what they've done to Melbourne clubs.

Not remotely the same situation, troll.

 

[madmug]

Not remotely the same situation, troll.

Troll! What a cheek.

 

[BringBackTorps]

I agree the next AFL team must be in Sydney, probably in the SW area.

Syd. sporting landscape is in a state of flux. Despite a doubling of the population since the 70's, RU regd. participation, at private school, jnr.club, and senior club, has declined by at least 25% in the contact version. This reduction is continuing. (Non contact still strong). The once thriving RU govt school CHS comp. from the 70's has virtually disappeared. Papworth and the other SS rebels are protesting to the ARU about this threat to the grass roots.

White NZ'ers and Islanders are likely to dominate rosters of the NRL - and now are at least 50% of its elite u18 & u20 squads; and increasing their presence in RU elite squads. RU & RL elite players have bulked up enormously over the last 20 years, even some aspiring 17-18 year olds are on onerous weight programs. Is this taking the fun out of RU & RL? It has been suggested many young players in middle class/affluent areas (and parents generally!) find this weight/strength prospect unpalatable. These game-style & demographic trends represent a strategic opportunity for AF.
AF is having good growth in middle class areas of Syd.,and also started in 2014 in private schools -speculation is that the Establishment scions, The Shore School and St Josephs (bastions of The Mother Country, Kiplingesque traditions, and RU) might also start AF teams....shock, horror!

Rothfield, Gould, and Masters have written several newspaper articles about falling numbers for RL in Syd. and country NSW, and the encroachment of AF. Fitzsimmons has also written in the SMH that his old RUschool, Waverley College, is now getting more enrolments in AF than RU -and has also predicted that Sydney will get a 3rd AFL team!
In the early 80's, AF was virtually unknown and irrelevant in Syd. -now, in the inner, northern, eastern suburbs, &the Hills, it has a good niche following.

Perhaps the AFL wishes to pour its media right riches into further expansion sides and Dev. Officers, and not overly enrich the players! The AFL now owns Docklands, and provides it with the opportunity to transform it (particularly facing Harbour Esplanade) into a 52 week venue, greatly increasing its revenue & profitability to help fund expansion ( The modern prototype stadium, which the AFL wishes to emulate, is Soldiers Field Stadium, Chicago, which is used 52 weeks pa -it has restaurants, reception rooms, night clubs, art galleries, etc. Google Soldiers Field Chicago).

53% of the population is in the northern states, with very strong population growth predicted for WS &SW Syd., and SE Qld.in the next 20 years. (Interestingly, Melb. has had the strongest growth in Aust. in the last 10 years; and an Aust. annual record of 110,000 net pop. increase in 2016 for Melb. will be announced soon). More importantly, 60% of the commercial TV advertising spend comes from Syd., a crucial metric for the financial health of the AFL and the code generally.

Also important is that about 50% of the top 200 ASX listed companies are Sydney based, as are most of the media, advertising, and financial services companies. ANZ, NAB, & Telstra, all in the top 10,even the ledger slightly for Melbourne,as do some extremely wealthy families here in Melb. who emotionally support AF (In Sydney, the corporate elite and extremely wealthy generally support RU,not RL, AF, or soccer- apart from Lowy)

It is curious, intriguing and extraordinary that Fitzpatrick, before the GWS/WB PF (which had ratings of 2,350,000, the 2nd highest ever for a non GF) publicly & audaciously stated the AFL wants to be the "dominant sport on the east coast within 20-30 years". The obvious expansion to achieve this is, incontrovertibly, in Sydney which could have 7,000,000 + in 2037 (now 5.1). It has been suggested that the A League will expand in 2 years - and SW or Sth Sydney (Cronulla's ground?) is a very strong possibility, where soccer has very strong participation. Is this forcing the AFL to act now, to also "have its shop on the corner" with its competitors?
Are the AFL sowing the seed in the public domain for this expansion, possibly in 10 years' time? Tony Shepherd, GWS Chairman, in Sept. also publicly said AF regd.participation in Syd. has grown by 50% since GWS was formed, and by 70% in GWS' area (admittedly, of a small base).

If I recall, Geelong, at Kardinia Park, with a crowd of 20,000 can make a net profit of $200,000 -and with 25,000, about $400,000. 30,000 crowd, much more $. This is because it also has full commercial rights to sponsorship/advertising sales, beveridge and food sales. I recall that Spotless and Metricon stadiums had MUCH MORE favourable commercial arrangements than Kardinia, so GWS and GC could become wealthy clubs if they can grow their crowds over 20,000. This holds great similar financial promise, therefore, for a new club with similar crowds based in Sth/SW Syd. (or Tasmania!)

Tasmania should be in the AFL, and deserves considerable support from the AFL -ideally, at least, another attempt to join the VFL, and the u18 TAC Cup. And only North Melb. playing there, 6 games a year? Between the 60's to early 90's, it produced Baldock, Howell, Stewart, Lawrence, Hart, Crosswell, Hudson, P.Jones, Greening,Bonney, Sproule, Armstrong, P.Williams, Rob Shaw, Eade -but only A. Nicholson, M. Richardson& Riewoldt since. Very few drafted in last 10 years. Tasmania defeated Vic. in 1960 & WA in 1970.
The problem for Tasmania, apart from the obvious North South divide and long drive between Hobart & Lonny, is that it has an ageing population, with miniscule pop. & economic growth. However, a TASMANIAN team playing at both Hobart & Lonny, averaging easily 20,000, would be profitable. The problem is that many young people are leaving for the "bright lights & excitement"of the mainland.

With over 1,000,000 regd. male players, the increasing great success in the last few years of drafting players from the northern states and more academies etc, the standard of play would not drop if we go to 20 teams. If we go to 18 players, and only 2 on the bench with very little interchange, this will also reduce congestion considerably, and reduce the ugly flooding and stoppages we see currently. This would free up another 36 elite players (18 x 2).

 

[Garlic muncher]

I agree the next AFL team must be in Sydney, probably in the SW area.

Syd. sporting landscape is in a state of flux. Despite a doubling of the population since the 70's, RU regd. participation, at private school, jnr.club, and senior club, has declined by at least 25% in the contact version. This reduction is continuing. (Non contact still strong). The once thriving RU govt school CHS comp. from the 70's has virtually disappeared. Papworth and the other SS rebels are protesting to the ARU about this threat to the grass roots.

White NZ'ers and Islanders are likely to dominate rosters of the NRL - and now are at least 50% of its elite u18 & u20 squads; and increasing their presence in RU elite squads. RU & RL elite players have bulked up enormously over the last 20 years, even some aspiring 17-18 year olds are on onerous weight programs. Is this taking the fun out of RU & RL? It has been suggested many young players in middle class/affluent areas (and parents generally!) find this weight/strength prospect unpalatable. These game-style & demographic trends represent a strategic opportunity for AF.
AF is having good growth in middle class areas of Syd.,and also started in 2014 in private schools -speculation is that the Establishment scions, The Shore School and St Josephs (bastions of The Mother Country, Kiplingesque traditions, and RU) might also start AF teams....shock, horror!

Rothfield, Gould, and Masters have written several newspaper articles about falling numbers for RL in Syd. and country NSW, and the encroachment of AF. Fitzsimmons has also written in the SMH that his old RUschool, Waverley College, is now getting more enrolments in AF than RU -and has also predicted that Sydney will get a 3rd AFL team!
In the early 80's, AF was virtually unknown and irrelevant in Syd. -now, in the inner, northern, eastern suburbs, &the Hills, it has a good niche following.

Perhaps the AFL wishes to pour its media right riches into further expansion sides and Dev. Officers, and not overly enrich the players! The AFL now owns Docklands, and provides it with the opportunity to transform it (particularly facing Harbour Esplanade) into a 52 week venue, greatly increasing its revenue & profitability to help fund expansion ( The modern prototype stadium, which the AFL wishes to emulate, is Soldiers Field Stadium, Chicago, which is used 52 weeks pa -it has restaurants, reception rooms, night clubs, art galleries, etc. Google Soldiers Field Chicago).

53% of the population is in the northern states, with very strong population growth predicted for WS &SW Syd., and SE Qld.in the next 20 years. (Interestingly, Melb. has had the strongest growth in Aust. in the last 10 years; and an Aust. annual record of 110,000 net pop. increase in 2016 for Melb. will be announced soon). More importantly, 60% of the commercial TV advertising spend comes from Syd., a crucial metric for the financial health of the AFL and the code generally.

Also important is that about 50% of the top 200 ASX listed companies are Sydney based, as are most of the media, advertising, and financial services companies. ANZ, NAB, & Telstra, all in the top 10,even the ledger slightly for Melbourne,as do some extremely wealthy families here in Melb. who emotionally support AF (In Sydney, the corporate elite and extremely wealthy generally support RU,not RL, AF, or soccer- apart from Lowy)

It is curious, intriguing and extraordinary that Fitzpatrick, before the GWS/WB PF (which had ratings of 2,350,000, the 2nd highest ever for a non GF) publicly & audaciously stated the AFL wants to be the "dominant sport on the east coast within 20-30 years". The obvious expansion to achieve this is, incontrovertibly, in Sydney which could have 7,000,000 + in 2037 (now 5.1). It has been suggested that the A League will expand in 2 years - and SW or Sth Sydney (Cronulla's ground?) is a very strong possibility, where soccer has very strong participation. Is this forcing the AFL to act now, to also "have its shop on the corner" with its competitors?
Are the AFL sowing the seed in the public domain for this expansion, possibly in 10 years' time? Tony Shepherd, GWS Chairman, in Sept. also publicly said AF regd.participation in Syd. has grown by 50% since GWS was formed, and by 70% in GWS' area (admittedly, of a small base).

If I recall, Geelong, at Kardinia Park, with a crowd of 20,000 can make a net profit of $200,000 -and with 25,000, about $400,000. 30,000 crowd, much more $. This is because it also has full commercial rights to sponsorship/advertising sales, beveridge and food sales. I recall that Spotless and Metricon stadiums had MUCH MORE favourable commercial arrangements than Kardinia, so GWS and GC could become wealthy clubs if they can grow their crowds over 20,000. This holds great similar financial promise, therefore, for a new club with similar crowds based in Sth/SW Syd. (or Tasmania!)

Tasmania should be in the AFL, and deserves considerable support from the AFL -ideally, at least, another attempt to join the VFL, and the u18 TAC Cup. And only North Melb. playing there, 6 games a year? Between the 60's to early 90's, it produced Baldock, Howell, Stewart, Lawrence, Hart, Crosswell, Hudson, P.Jones, Greening,Bonney, Sproule, Armstrong, P.Williams, Rob Shaw, Eade -but only A. Nicholson, M. Richardson& Riewoldt since. Very few drafted in last 10 years. Tasmania defeated Vic. in 1960 & WA in 1970.
The problem for Tasmania, apart from the obvious North South divide and long drive between Hobart & Lonny, is that it has an ageing population, with miniscule pop. & economic growth. However, a TASMANIAN team playing at both Hobart & Lonny, averaging easily 20,000, would be profitable. The problem is that many young people are leaving for the "bright lights & excitement"of the mainland.

With over 1,000,000 regd. male players, the increasing great success in the last few years of drafting players from the northern states and more academies etc, the standard of play would not drop if we go to 20 teams. If we go to 18 players, and only 2 on the bench with very little interchange, this will also reduce congestion considerably, and reduce the ugly flooding and stoppages we see currently. This would free up another 36 elite players (18 x 2).

Great post and actually you have said many of the same things i have been saying for quite a while.

The next Sydney team doesn't need to draw 40/50k like the Swans may do, it will be constrained by its stadium sze which i imagine will be no bigger than Spotless.

I have said it before on this thread, but the 3rd Sydney team will be on its way in a much shorter period of time than what football fans realise.

There is such an upside in WS Southern and SW Sydney, i note that that Southern Power FC based down in the Southern Sydney suburbs is the only AFC down that way in a area that has about 1 million people.

 

[Kwality]

I agree the next AFL team must be in Sydney, probably in the SW area.

...

If I recall, Geelong, at Kardinia Park, with a crowd of 20,000 can make a net profit of $200,000 -and with 25,000, about $400,000. 30,000 crowd, much more $. This is because it also has full commercial rights to sponsorship/advertising sales, beveridge and food sales. I recall that Spotless and Metricon stadiums had MUCH MORE favourable commercial arrangements than Kardinia, so GWS and GC could become wealthy clubs if they can grow their crowds over 20,000. This holds great similar financial promise, therefore, for a new club with similar crowds based in Sth/SW Syd. (or Tasmania!)

Tasmania should be in the AFL, and deserves considerable support from the AFL -ideally, at least, another attempt to join the VFL, and the u18 TAC Cup. And only North Melb. playing there, 6 games a year? Between the 60's to early 90's, it produced Baldock, Howell, Stewart, Lawrence, Hart, Crosswell, Hudson, P.Jones, Greening,Bonney, Sproule, Armstrong, P.Williams, Rob Shaw, Eade -but only A. Nicholson, M. Richardson& Riewoldt since. Very few drafted in last 10 years. Tasmania defeated Vic. in 1960 & WA in 1970.
The problem for Tasmania, apart from the obvious North South divide and long drive between Hobart & Lonny, is that it has an ageing population, with miniscule pop. & economic growth. However, a TASMANIAN team playing at both Hobart & Lonny, averaging easily 20,000, would be profitable. The problem is that many young people are leaving for the "bright lights & excitement"of the mainland.

With over 1,000,000 regd. male players, the increasing great success in the last few years of drafting players from the northern states and more academies etc, the standard of play would not drop if we go to 20 teams. If we go to 18 players, and only 2 on the bench with very little interchange, this will also reduce congestion considerably, and reduce the ugly flooding and stoppages we see currently. This would free up another 36 elite players (18 x 2).

I trust you understand the unique nature of the Geelong deal, the support it has got from the local community, not sure you could hope for a similar deal in Sydney, though such support would be a reality in Tas.

 

[madmug]

Great post and actually you have said many of the same things i have been saying for quite a while.

The next Sydney team doesn't need to draw 40/50k like the Swans may do, it will be constrained by its stadium sze which i imagine will be no bigger than Spotless.

I have said it before on this thread, but the 3rd Sydney team will be on its way in a much shorter period of time than what football fans realise.

There is such an upside in WS Southern and SW Sydney, i note that that Southern Power FC based down in the Southern Sydney suburbs is the only AFC down that way in a area that has about 1 million people.

The culture to sport is different in Sydney. I just dont see a suburban based club having any chance of success, let alone survival. Yes their are ASX companies & other business attractions, NON of them are in the suburbs. Also their is no need of a 50k seat stadium, for a reason. No money, no support, no chance. If Southern Power are the only club in the whole area, that tells you something about the level of support for the game in the area. Look at NRL & Aleague crowds in Sydney. That tells you about the sport culture.
Two clubs in Sydney, one is still on life support. Thats it, at least this century.

 

[Garlic muncher]

I trust you understand the unique nature of the Geelong deal, the support it has got from the local community, not sure you could hope for a similar deal in Sydney, though such support would be a reality in Tas.

Metricon deal is very very good from all accounts.

In Sydney basically all the local football clubs are around the NW, Eastern suburbs or city, as pointed out there is but one senior club based in Southern Sydney south of St George, an area that has a population of a million people.

A third Sydney team based around the city wont work, it has to be South or SW or somehow incorporating both, which it probably cant do, so it is going to have to choose.

A third team must be based where the population is, .... and that is out in the burbs, it is not like Melbourne or Perth or Adelaide, you have got to go backwards to go forwards in Sydney for a third team.

A smaller stadium with a Spotless style capacity is the way to go, with a good deal can i would have thought make it work.

 

[Garlic muncher]

So Sydney Juniors AFL have 50 teams playing in a private schools league on Saturdays in Sydney where a couple of years ago there was none http://websites.sportstg.com/comp_info.cgi?c=0-10806-0-413563-0&a=FIXTURE

An absolute boon for the Swans academy

We have the GWS juniors league which has built from 60 odd teams 4 years ago to over 140 this season, that has been growing at 20% per year and just a matter of time before the GWS academy nets some very good players locally rather than locally in the ACT and Riverina.

And we have a very strong Eastern and Northern suburbs junior league that is now growing strongly around the inner Western Suburbs, the growth appears to be moving West.

Southern Sydney juniors is without doubt the weakest part of Sydney football.

Sydney football is probably as strong as is has even been at grassroots level, the AFL would be mad if they were not in some form of planning for a third team, surely you must strike when the iron is hot.

 

[Kwality]

Metricon deal is very very good from all accounts.

In Sydney basically all the local football clubs are around the NW, Eastern suburbs or city, as pointed out there is but one senior club based in Southern Sydney south of St George, an area that has a population of a million people.

A third Sydney team based around the city wont work, it has to be South or SW or somehow incorporating both, which it probably cant do, so it is going to have to choose.

A third team must be based where the population is, .... and that is out in the burbs, it is not like Melbourne or Perth or Adelaide, you have got to go backwards to go forwards in Sydney for a third team.

A smaller stadium with a Spotless style capacity is the way to go, with a good deal can i would have thought make it work.

Once the dust settles or the current expansion, a generation is 10+ years in the AFL cycle, and that the Suns & Giants are the first foray outside Aussie Rules heartland, where will the game be in early 20s is clear for all to see - the speculation on what next before the AFL can truly evaluate the effect on where the game is, how much it needs to allocate to both the developing States, how much the clubs in heartland States require to stay alive, will be much clearer.

Interesting the suggestion that a club in suburbia (away from the City & its infrastructure) might work - GI is a term I've only heard in Sydney, ie geographically impossible, suggests it needs real research, given the effect Adelaide Oval has had on Ports crowds, central city locations wont be easily.

The question of what to do with the FIXture must impact any decision.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Once the dust settles or the current expansion, a generation is 10+ years in the AFL cycle, and that the Suns & Giants are the first foray outside Aussie Rules heartland, where will the game be in early 20s is clear for all to see - the speculation on what next before the AFL can truly evaluate the effect on where the game is, how much it needs to allocate to both the developing States, how much the clubs in heartland States require to stay alive, will be much clearer.

Interesting the suggestion that a club in suburbia (away from the City & its infrastructure) might work - GI is a term I've only heard in Sydney, ie geographically impossible, suggests it needs real research, given the effect Adelaide Oval has had on Ports crowds, central city locations wont be easily.

The question of what to do with the FIXture must impact any decision.

You cant have a team called SW Tigers or whatever in Sydney and play in the city, RL can in Sydney to a certain extent because they already have a support base, AF can in the traditional states because they aready have a support base for those teams.

I find it interesting in Sydney, there is no decent stadium in SW Sydney, hardly any NRL games played, people from that area don't really travel into the city and a combined boutique cricket/football stadium would give the AFL a very good chance at having a chance ot there.

Do we really think at the current rates of growth that we are seeing ATM that Sydney will realistically have only 2 AFL teams ?.

 

[Kwality]

So Sydney Juniors AFL have 50 teams playing in a private schools league on Saturdays in Sydney where a couple of years ago there was none http://websites.sportstg.com/comp_info.cgi?c=0-10806-0-413563-0&a=FIXTURE

An absolute boon for the Swans academy

We have the GWS juniors league which has built from 60 odd teams 4 years ago to over 140 this season, that has been growing at 20% per year and just a matter of time before the GWS academy nets some very good players locally rather than locally in the ACT and Riverina.

And we have a very strong Eastern and Northern suburbs junior league that is now growing strongly around the inner Western Suburbs, the growth appears to be moving West.

Southern Sydney juniors is without doubt the weakest part of Sydney football.

Sydney football is probably as strong as is has even been at grassroots level, the AFL would be mad if they were not in some form of planning for a third team, surely you must strike when the iron is hot.

Sadly there are anti academy forces still at work before its started to deliver on a sustained basis.

Not sure where Pennant Hills sits on your radar - I remember a kid from there ( via Margaret River) winning a Sandover for East Perth in the 80s , John Ironmonger went on to play VFL footy for both the Swans & Fitzroy.

 

[NoobPie]

So Sydney Juniors AFL have 50 teams playing in a private schools league on Saturdays in Sydney where a couple of years ago there was none http://websites.sportstg.com/comp_info.cgi?c=0-10806-0-413563-0&a=FIXTURE

An absolute boon for the Swans academy

We have the GWS juniors league which has built from 60 odd teams 4 years ago to over 140 this season, that has been growing at 20% per year and just a matter of time before the GWS academy nets some very good players locally rather than locally in the ACT and Riverina.

And we have a very strong Eastern and Northern suburbs junior league that is now growing strongly around the inner Western Suburbs, the growth appears to be moving West.

Southern Sydney juniors is without doubt the weakest part of Sydney football.

Sydney football is probably as strong as is has even been at grassroots level, the AFL would be mad if they were not in some form of planning for a third team, surely you must strike when the iron is hot.

Hey Gm, what are you determining as "south"? There seems to be a stack of particularly junior clubs down the south west....otherwise pretty sure the shire alone only has a couple of hundred thousand

This is handy....

http://aflnswact.com.au/club-finder/

 

[Rob]

You cant have a team called SW Tigers or whatever in Sydney and play in the city, RL can in Sydney to a certain extent because they already have a support base, AF can in the traditional states because they aready have a support base for those teams.

I find it interesting in Sydney, there is no decent stadium in SW Sydney, hardly any NRL games played, people from that area don't really travel into the city and a combined boutique cricket/football stadium would give the AFL a very good chance at having a chance ot there.

Do we really think at the current rates of growth that we are seeing ATM that Sydney will realistically have only 2 AFL teams ?.

The issue is that you're talking so far into the future that discussing location hypotheticals is a waste of time. In 30 years time it may well be that GWS are playing a lot further west than they are now.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Hey Gm, what are you determining as "south"? There seems to be a stack of particularly junior clubs down the south west....otherwise pretty sure the shire alone only has a couple of hundred thousand

This is handy....

http://aflnswact.com.au/club-finder/

South would be from Arncliffe south to the National Park which includes Cronulla Sutherland, South West is a long way away from Cronulla and split from it by a National Park.

http://aflsj.com.au/comps/sydney-harbour/

Under 10's south - 7 teams

Under 10's city - 20 teams

Under 10's North - 25 teams

Under 10's West/SW - 21 teams

 

[BringBackTorps]

Thanks GM, your BF input on this topic, and others, is diverse and prescient.

It is surprising Fitzpatrick's "inflammatory" comments have not attracted widespread media attention -he has "poked the NRL bear", where is the analysis and return NRL fire? Whatever happened to the Parramatta NRL's Pres. gleeful epitath, re GWS, "The AFL's Vietnam". Why not more hysteria from Masters?

The next expansion will be in Sydney, a totally new club. Both Melb & Syd. are forecast to have a pop. of about 7,000,000 in 2037.
Two clubs are obviously insufficient to promote the code. The real "risk"is if the AFL does NOT expand further into Syd., or leaves its move too late! Barassi has said Syd. needs four!

GWS now has about 11,500 members, 37% higher than last year at this stage -they are predicting 20,000 ( excellent by Syd. standards, GWS copped regular floggings in their first three years, WS has relatively little AF grassroots presence).

As Fitzpatrick alluded to, the AFL knows the increasingly big-bodied Islander penetration of RL & RU is worrying many parents.
In Bris., GC, & S/Coast, grassroots AF regd. players are about on par now with RL, completely unthinkable 30 years ago (but go inland, or further up the coast, except for Cairns, AF has very little presence).
In Syd., in many areas in the north, east, and sth, grassroots regd. adult contact RL player numbers are low for a city of 5,100,000. In contact RU, despite Australia finishing a very meritorious second in the WC in 2015, regd. player numbers continue to decline. AF is growing.

Luckily for Footscray & North, the fastest growing areas in Australia in last 10 years are the W, NW, & N of Melbourne -land in these outer areas is much cheaper than Syd., and much closer to CBD cf. Syd. There is virtually no chance of any Melbourne club relocating.
Melbourne FC is the oldest professional, "organised"FC in the world, of any code. -1859. Due to national pride, the AFL will never countenance the loss of "Melbourne Football Club". Also, the name "Melbourne" (or Sydney, Brisbane, or Adelaide) might be more impressive and attractive to any international sponsor, should any ever wish to allocate serious sponsorhip/marketing dollars to AF.

After GWS regularly gets sell-outs (10 years+?) at Spotless, the AFL will create a new club in the Sth or SW, at an oval within reasonable distance of a railway station. This new club will be co-joined with the ACT.

GWS, and this new Sth/SW Syd. club, must introduce the old Geelong model (as they all encompass very wide geographic areas -Geelong attracts support from around country Victoria). They should promote widely, and organise, buses from multiple areas to transport people from distant locations to and from the grounds; and/or have a pre or post game cheap bbq at the bus pick-up points (these matters must be paid & pre-booked by the attendees). Apart from the convenience this provides supporters from distant locations to get to the ground, it provides an opportunity for some socialising/bonding between the supporters of "MY,OUR club". The psychology of this sense of community is powerful for building ongoing & generational support.

A new stadium does not necessarily have to be fully seated, can be majority standing room (MUCH cheaper option- 15,000 seated could be same dimensions and cost as 5,000 seated & 20,000 standing). Except for kids, elderly, and some women, many men prefer the traditional, gutteral noise & "vibe"of being packed in like sardines. Many people feel the curent all-seating arrangements have become too sanitised and sedate -we all know barracking is more raucous when packed into standing room. This "point of difference"could be a much desired attraction of the new Sth/SW stadium.

"...unique nature of Geelong deal..." ?
My understanding is that SS, Metricon are better financially for the home club than Kardinia ;Ballarat & Footscray 2017 is very lucrative financially even with a crowd of 14,000. Crucial issue is how much the controlling Council is keen to procure "glory/recognition"for its area, and the level of corporate box/ outside marquee interest. York Park & Hobart also very profitable with 20,000.

"...only Southern Power in the South..."?
Apart from Southern Power, other senior AF clubs in the proposed catchment (not incl.ACT or Woolongong AF clubs) are St George, Camden, Campbelltown, SW Syd. Magpies, Wollondilly. As mentioned above, the "bussing-in culture"should be introduced -its fun, & takes out the stress for those who don't want long trips by car or public transport.