A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

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General Giant

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There's 4 different articles every bloody day. It's as boring as the idiots who are giving the game a bad name.
Youre coming close to acting like a Wanderers fan.

Complaining about being busted for doing something wrong.

Its simple, dont do something wrong and you wont get hammered for it.

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Youre coming close to acting like a Wanderers fan.

Complaining about being busted for doing something wrong.

Its simple, dont do something wrong and you wont get hammered for it.

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I’m not complaining about them doing something wrong and getting busted, they deserve everything they get, but the continued rehashing of the same articles day after day.

It’s no surprise these articles are being posted here though.
 

General Giant

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I’m not complaining about them doing something wrong and getting busted, they deserve everything they get, but the continued rehashing of the same articles day after day.

It’s no surprise these articles are being posted here though.
It's not over though.

Unfortunately this has been the offseason from hell for the NRL and it is a big news story that so much has happened.

Of course it is. If it had been the AFL screwing up every 5 mins it would of been all over the League boards and social media.

Besides which it is relevent to the conversation.

The SL war gave a massive boost to the Swans and AFL back in that 95 to 97 period.

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That's because almost every day there's a new case of an NRL player abusing a women or breaking the law.[Incorrect]
The reality is that c. 95% of NRL players are law-abiding citizens- nor does this 95% commit anti-social behaviour. NRL player bad behaviour is rare.
The other reality is that a very small % of AFL players have also committed illegal, off-field violent acts against males & females; & other types of anti-social behaviour.
(I am excluding use of illicit, non-performance enhancing drugs in both codes- as the percentages are unclear, & the players' drug use is very rarely photographed. This drug use is widespread in society, is very dangerous/unhealthy, often destroys families & requires much harsher measures to minimise/eradicate it).

The image problems that the NRL have is that:-

. perceptions can be mistaken for reality.

. an higher % of their players have committed illegal & anti-social behaviour cf the AFL & other professional codes.

. on raw nos., there are many fewer listed NRL players in their 16 clubs, cf. the AFL's 18 clubs (& each AFL club has, also, a bigger List).
This exposes the NRL to more criticism & scrutiny re poor behaviour.

. video phones are omnipresent now. Any public figure is likely to be captured on film, if behaving inappropriately in public places. It is well known that "bad news sells" newspapers/generate clicks, "good news"does not.

. NRL players are, often, not very articulate/good media performers.
For some people, this is a cause (unfairly) of negative perceptions about the NRL.

. there is a significant working class/relatively lowly educated dimension to the NRL, & its fans. This can cause, wrongfully & unfairly, conscious or unconscious elements of snobbery/negative perceptions about the NRL. Most private schools prefer RU to RL.
A big majority of media executives in NSW & Qld. would be from middle class/affluent/higher educated backgrounds.

.anecdotally, there are more crowd behavioural problems at GR RL games, cf. GR AF games.
eg the Penrith District JRL was forced to employ uniformed security guards at all its junior competition games, due to unsociable/threatening behaviour of adults. This widespread use of security guards is unprecedented in junior sport in Aust.
( Violent/threatening fan behavior in professional soccer is, of course, a FAR greater problem than in the contact codes).

. the #me too movement, re sexual harassment, has developed much interest & publicity in the last few years.
The media is aware that illegal and/or inappropriate acts impacting on females will generate much interest in their media.

. public opinion polls reveal, shockingly, that a large majority of women are fearful of walking alone in the street after darkness sets in.
IMO, the media is aware that female safety is an area of considerable interest.
 
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It's not over though.

Unfortunately this has been the offseason from hell for the NRL and it is a big news story that so much has happened.
I don't care. I find the endless stream of articles boring and pointless, although I get why others support them.

Of course it is. If it had been the AFL screwing up every 5 mins it would of been all over the League boards and social media.
I highly doubt the DT would have as many articles on AFL players as they do RL, it just wouldn't sell. As for League boards, we don't allow that type of stuff.

Besides which it is relevent to the conversation.
No it isn't. Regardless of the behaviour of 1% of NRL players, a 3rd team in Sydney is years away.

The SL war gave a massive boost to the Swans and AFL back in that 95 to 97 period.
No doubt, but we aren't talking about the take over of RL here from a greedy prick.
 

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I don't care. I find the endless stream of articles boring and pointless, although I get why others support them.
Well if those players stop doing what they are doing the articles will stop. Simples.

Nothing to do with support. More to do with it being relevent.

I highly doubt the DT would have as many articles on AFL players as they do RL, it just wouldn't sell. As for League boards, we don't allow that type of stuff.
I dont doubt it.

As for the league boards, garbage. Have seen absolute twaddle on them.

No it isn't. Regardless of the behaviour of 1% of NRL players, a 3rd team in Sydney is years away.
Yes it is, but the growth of the game and the bad times for league seem to go hand in hand.
So definitely relevent.

No doubt, but we aren't talking about the take over of RL here from a greedy prick.
True but it was a down time for league and when league is down other sports seem to grow.

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Well if those players stop doing what they are doing the articles will stop. Simples.

Nothing to do with support. More to do with it being relevent.
Yet history has shown any number of players who've had charges laid against them to be proven innocent. Who's to say this won't happen again?

There's no relevance because Sydney won't see another side for years. Sure there will be growth, why wouldn't there be when the AFL pump millions of dollars into the area, but no team. Torps is just an imitation of phil and cos.

As for the league boards, garbage. Have seen absolute twaddle on them.
Not on our board and the only other one I know of I gave up on a long time ago.
 

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Yet history has shown any number of players who've had charges laid against them to be proven innocent. Who's to say this won't happen again?

They are not "proven innocent"....surely you know this?


Not on our board and the only other one I know of I gave up on a long time ago.
If by "our board" you are referring to the rugby league board on big footy than I'm not sure that is a credible comparison

Here is the AFL board on League Unlimited

https://forums.leagueunlimited.com/forums/afl.89/

I have seen barely any talk about League's cluster of cases of alleged sexual and physical violence against women around big footy.

BBTs has just been using this thread to identify factors that could help Australian football's growth in Sydney
 

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They are not "proven innocent"....surely you know this?
Are you saying El Masri and Brett Stewart were found guilty?

If by "our board" you are referring to the rugby league board on big footy than I'm not sure that is a credible comparison
Why not? It's a Rugby league board, it just doesn't delve into the code war stuff that goes on here.

Been there, done that, left. A good idea for a few people around here.

I have seen barely any talk about League's cluster of cases of alleged sexual and physical violence against women around big footy.
Never said there was. My initial comment was around the DT and Offsiders. Nek minnit.

BBTs has just been using this thread to identify factors that could help Australian football's growth in Sydney
Well, that's your view anyway. I don't think we'll see another team in Sydney for years and that comment has yet to be rebuked, not that it's a great surprise.
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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Are you saying El Masri and Brett Stewart were found guilty?



Why not? It's a Rugby league board, it just doesn't delve into the code war stuff that goes on here.



Been there, done that, left. A good idea for a few people around here.



Never said there was. My initial comment was around the DT and Offsiders. Nek minnit.



Well, that's your view anyway. I don't think we'll see another team in Sydney for years and that comment has yet to be rebuked, not that it's a great surprise.
I actively dislike Rugby League and make no claim to be unbiased. The "proven innocent" thing is disturbing though. It almost never happens and is nothing like "not proven guilty".

Smacks of Bulldogs players claim that winning a premiership vindicated them after the Coffs pack Rape allegati9n saga. It's genuinely disturbing in what it says about culture.
 

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NoobPie

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Are you saying El Masri and Brett Stewart were found guilty?

No, I'm saying they weren't "proven innocent". Every chance they weren't guilty....but particularly when talking about sexual violence against women, where proof around consent is so difficult, a massive cluster of "alleged" acts of sexual violence committed by NRL players having been "proved innocent" suggests there isn't a problem


Why not? It's a Rugby league board, it just doesn't delve into the code war stuff that goes on here.

Been there, done that, left. A good idea for a few people around here.
Because it's the rugby league sub forum on an AFL forum. The main rugby league forum, from what I've seen of it, is intolerant of anyone who even likes football

It is certainly not the case that people here have been morbidly feeding off the NRL's ills





Well, that's your view anyway. I don't think we'll see another team in Sydney for years and that comment has yet to be rebuked, not that it's a great surprise.
I don't think there will be either...most people who have contributed here seem to hold that view.

But this particularly thread is largely proxying for the discussion of the code's growth in Sydney generally.
 

General Giant

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Yet history has shown any number of players who've had charges laid against them to be proven innocent. Who's to say this won't happen again?
Hmmm a number isnt the majority and a lot of those are because the partner has dropped the case (a big issue with domestic violence) or the courts have gotten star struck.

There's no relevance because Sydney won't see another side for years. Sure there will be growth, why wouldn't there be when the AFL pump millions of dollars into the area, but no team. Torps is just an imitation of phil and cos.
Plenty of relevance. No one thought there would be a 2nd team ever up here until the super league war combined with the infield success of the swans.

With the money being spent in grassroots footy by the AFL and the NRL continuing to shoot itself in the foot it may (probably) accelerate the growth of the sport.

Not saying a 3rd team happens anytime soon but the above factors help grow it.

Not on our board and the only other one I know of I gave up on a long time ago.
Of course not on the bF board. But that's not the main League board is it.

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The Australian Alan Jones 1.6.18

I have just recently seen this article- & the extraordinary & very rare threat by the ACT Brumbies' Board to close their Club.
Alan Jones, former Wallabies' coach, writes:-

. "... rugby administrators in Canberra were warning the rugby public if they don't turn up, the club might go under".

(This threat of closure related to the Brumbies' dwindling crowds, & experiencing their lowest Super Rugby averages since 1996. The Brumbies wrote to their members in late May 2018 of the need to attend games-"or the Brumbies may no longer exist"- from a related SMH article.

The threat of closure is interesting- because if a 3rd AFL team in Sydney was established, I believe it would represent SW or Sthn. Sydney- plus the ACT. The misfortunes/closure/"vacuum" of the Brumbies would, obviously, assist the growth of AF in the ACT; & weaken Super Rugby generally).

. about the famous Shute Shield Club, Gordon (Sydney North Shore). It has won 8 Shute Shields, produced 34 Wallabies, including 4 Wallaby Captains. But in recent years, has won very few games, & regularly receives "floggings". Jones implies their future could be imperilled.

.other major problems in RU.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...g/news-story/cbd103b28bc7683bde3c0423bee54068

I don't think we'll see another team in Sydney for years and that comment has yet to be rebuked[?], not that it's a great surprise[?].
No commentators on this thread have suggested a 3rd team in Sydney is probable in the near term.
I, & I suspect most, believe it might only occur if GWS was, for several years, attracting lockout crowds to nearly all its Homebush games- these lockout games might take at least 10-20 years to eventuate (even though GWS had 25,000+ members in 2018, including 4,000+ in the ACT).

The ABS is predicting Sydney will have a pop. of 8,000,000 by 2050.

Sydney is now (& likely to remain in the future):-

. Australia's wealthiest city, by far
. the HQ of most international companies who have a local HQ in Aust.
. the HQ for c. 50% of the Top ASX 200 companies
. the HQ for all Australia's media companies
. the HQ of advertising companies that produce c. 60% of all Australian advertising revenues
. attracting, by far, the highest, hourly prime time advertising rates

Thus, a very strong case can be made that it would be TOO RISKY for the AFL NOT to have a 3rd team in Australia's wealthiest & most influential city, in coming decades. Another team (likely Tasmania) would probably enter the AFL simultaneously as South Sydney Canberra- creating an additional game/extra broadcast $.

As for the "relevance" of the NRL players' "summer from hell" scandals to this thread, it is obvious that other codes will be a beneficiary ie improve their popularity amongst parents/schools/sports' fans/general public/sponsors & advertisers (see above references throughout this Thread). And RL's reputation will be diminished.
NRL Chairman P. Beattie on 17.12.18 said the player assaults were "killing the game" & an "embarrassment to the NRL". T.Greenberg, NRL Club Chairs & CEO's, NRL players & many other RL/sporting journalists have expressed similar severe concerns.

https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/nrl-pe...-assault/a5f78db8-abad-490c-9da3-b493265eac81

"Since the 2018 NRL season concluded, there's been up to 15 off-field scandals which have rocked the code..."
"An incredible amount of damage", Beattie said.

https://www.sportsradio.com.au/pete...s-new-arlc-policy-for-player-behaviour-issue/
 
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The Australian Alan Jones 1.6.18

I have just recently seen this article- & the extraordinary & very rare threat by the ACT Brumbies' Board to close their Club.
Alan Jones, former Wallabies' coach, writes:-

. "... rugby administrators in Canberra were warning the rugby public if they don't turn up, the club might go under".

(This threat of closure related to the Brumbies' dwindling crowds, & experiencing their lowest Super Rugby averages since 1996. The Brumbies wrote to their members in late May 2018 of the need to attend games-"or the Brumbies may no longer exist"- from SMH article.

The threat of closure is interesting- because if a 3rd team in Sydney was established, I believe it would represent SW or Sthn. Sydney-plus the ACT. The misfortunes or closure of the Brumbies would, obviously, assist the growth of AF in the ACT; & weaken Super Rugby generally).

. about the famous Shute Shield Club, Gordon (Sydney North Shore). It is one of Australia's most famous premier RU Clubs- it has won 8 Shute Shields, produced 34 Wallabies, including 4 Wallaby Captains. But in recent years, has won very few games, & regularly receives "floggings". Jones implies their future could be imperilled

.other major problems in RU

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...g/news-story/cbd103b28bc7683bde3c0423bee54068


No commentators on this thread have suggested a 3rd team in Sydney is probable in the near term.
I, & I suspect most, believe it might only occur if GWS was, for several years, attracting lockout crowds to nearly all its Homebush games- these lockout games might take at least 10-20 years to eventuate (even though GWS had 25,000+ members in 2018, including 4,000+ in the ACT).

The ABS is predicting Sydney will have a pop. of 8,000,000 by 2050.

Sydney is now (& likely to remain in the future):-

. Australia's wealthiest city, by far
. the HQ of most international companies who have a local HQ in Aust.
. the HQ for c. 50% of the Top ASX 200 companies
. the HQ for all Australia's media companies
. the HQ of advertising companies that produce c. 60% of all Australian advertising revenues
. attracting, by far, the highest, hourly prime time advertising rates


Therefore, a very strong case can be made that it would be TOO RISKY for the AFL NOT to have a 3rd team in Australia's wealthiest & most influential city, in coming decades. I would assume another team (probably Tasmania) would enter the AFL simultaneously as Sydney- to create an additional game/extra broadcast $.

As for the "relevance" of the "summer from hell" offseason various NRL player scandals to this thread, it is obvious that other codes will be a beneficiary ie improve their popularity amongst parents/schools/sports' fans/general public/sponsors & advertisers (see above references).
NRL Chairman P. Beattie on 17.12.18 (c. scandal no.5?) said the assaults were "killing the game" & an "embarrassment to the NRL". T.Greenberg, NRL Club officials, NRL players & many other RL/sporting journalists have expressed similar severe concerns.

https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/nrl-pe...-assault/a5f78db8-abad-490c-9da3-b493265eac81

"Since the 2018 NRL season concluded, there's been up to 15 off-field scandals which have rocked the code..."
"An incredible amount of damage", Beattie said.

https://www.sportsradio.com.au/pete...s-new-arlc-policy-for-player-behaviour-issue/

I don't know who "Phil and Cos" are.
Off topic abit but it is going to be bloody interesting to see how the entire Melbourne/Sydney battle plays out over the next few decades. It won’t be long until Melbourne passes Sydney in population and geographically has so many advantages over Sydney this should well and truly accelerate in the future. It’s actually a crime house prices are even close to Sydney’s. In another 10 or so years it also wouldn’t surprise me if Geelong is counted in Melbourne’s population figures much like the Central Coast is in Sydney’s. If this happens it’ll soon change perceptions and the financial wheel will start to turn in Melbourne’s favour. If by 2050 Melbourne isn’t Australia’s number one city we will have been run by clowns.
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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Off topic abit but it is going to be bloody interesting to see how the entire Melbourne/Sydney battle plays out over the next few decades. It won’t be long until Melbourne passes Sydney in population and geographically has so many advantages over Sydney this should well and truly accelerate in the future. It’s actually a crime house prices are even close to Sydney’s. In another 10 or so years it also wouldn’t surprise me if Geelong is counted in Melbourne’s population figures much like the Central Coast is in Sydney’s. If this happens it’ll soon change perceptions and the financial wheel will start to turn in Melbourne’s favour. If by 2050 Melbourne isn’t Australia’s number one city we will have been run by clowns.
Pffft

I cant take you seriously.
 
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Off topic abit but it is going to be bloody interesting to see how the entire Melbourne/Sydney battle plays out over the next few decades. It won’t be long until Melbourne passes Sydney in population and geographically has so many advantages over Sydney this should well and truly accelerate in the future. It’s actually a crime house prices are even close to Sydney’s. In another 10 or so years it also wouldn’t surprise me if Geelong is counted in Melbourne’s population figures much like the Central Coast is in Sydney’s. If this happens it’ll soon change perceptions and the financial wheel will start to turn in Melbourne’s favour. If by 2050 Melbourne isn’t Australia’s number one city we will have been run by clowns.
In reality, Melbourne already has Australia's largest single contiguous urban population. Sydney only has a larger "official" population because the ABS, for some strange reason, insists on including the Central Coast/Lake Macquarie region as part of Sydney even though it's a separate contiguous urban region that's further from Sydney than what Geelong is from Melbourne. The NSW Govt and local councils don't consider the Central Coast as part of Sydney so it's a mystery to me why the ABS does -
https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/is-melbourne-already-bigger-than-sydney-201709

Not including Central Coast/Lake Macquarie, Melbourne is now (2018) over 100,000 more than Sydney and maintaining a much higher growth rate (for better or for worse).
 

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In reality, Melbourne already has Australia's largest single contiguous urban population. Sydney only has a larger "official" population because the ABS, for some strange reason, insists on including the Central Coast/Lake Macquarie region as part of Sydney even though it's a separate contiguous urban region that's further from Sydney than what Geelong is from Melbourne. The NSW Govt and local councils don't consider the Central Coast as part of Sydney so it's a mystery to me why the ABS does -
https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/is-melbourne-already-bigger-than-sydney-201709

Not including Central Coast/Lake Macquarie, Melbourne is now (2018) over 100,000 more than Sydney and maintaining a much higher growth rate (for better or for worse).
Yep it’s because something like 7% commute from CC to Sydney, that’s why I think over the next ten years Geelong will be included.
It’s simply because of room though imo. Melbourne has so much room for potential growth with easy access to the CBD. Melbourne should always have much cheaper housing which I think will lead to it well and truly overtaking Sydney in the future.
 

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No, I'm saying they weren't "proven innocent". Every chance they weren't guilty....but particularly when talking about sexual violence against women, where proof around consent is so difficult, a massive cluster of "alleged" acts of sexual violence committed by NRL players having been "proved innocent" suggests there isn't a problem
I don't think I've ever said there isn't a problem as there clearly is. That's you forming my opinion which is wrong. My initial comment was directed at the DT and Offsiders who seldom have a good thing to say about the game, period. Unless Roy gets on of course. :)

Because it's the rugby league sub forum on an AFL forum. The main rugby league forum, from what I've seen of it, is intolerant of anyone who even likes football
I don't think that's entirely true. If you go there and hang shit on the game, then you'll rightly cop it, but if you went with a genuine interest in both sports, then you'd be fine. I stopped going there simply because it's far too personal even amongst the RL folks.
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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In reality, Melbourne already has Australia's largest single contiguous urban population. Sydney only has a larger "official" population because the ABS, for some strange reason, insists on including the Central Coast/Lake Macquarie region as part of Sydney even though it's a separate contiguous urban region that's further from Sydney than what Geelong is from Melbourne. The NSW Govt and local councils don't consider the Central Coast as part of Sydney so it's a mystery to me why the ABS does -
https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/is-melbourne-already-bigger-than-sydney-201709

Not including Central Coast/Lake Macquarie, Melbourne is now (2018) over 100,000 more than Sydney and maintaining a much higher growth rate (for better or for worse).
Sydney has outgrown the traditional Sydney basin.

Ummm

That's because it's a big city. It is not separate contiguous urban zone. There are no rural areas between Sydney and Newcastle.

People living in the central coast and Lake Macquarie areas largely work in the Sydney basin
 

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Yet history has shown any number of players who've had charges laid against them to be proven innocent. Who's to say this won't happen again?
Just pointing out that 'non guilty' doesn't mean 'proven innocent'. It just means it could be proven 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.
 

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Sydney has outgrown the traditional Sydney basin.

Ummm

That's because it's a big city. It is not separate contiguous urban zone. There are no rural areas between Sydney and Newcastle.

People living in the central coast and Lake Macquarie areas largely work in the Sydney basin
On that basis, Geelong should be counted as part of Melbourne.
 
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