A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

NoobPie

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SMH journalist Roy Masters has, for decades, "specialised" in writing articles on off-field NRL and AFL developments/strategies.
In the Annual Tom Brock Annual RL Lecture on 19.9.208, he said:-

. in the next 10-20 years, it is probable "...the AFL...moving into Campbelltown with a great deal of wealth and resources" ie he is predicting a side based in the Sydney's SW, or southern suburbs (at about 37 minutes 20 seconds).

."rural NSW is under siege" ie significant GR RL decline, & growth of GR AF (at about 39 minutes 30 seconds).

http://www.tombrock.com.au/category/tom-brock-lecture-2/

GR AF regd. nos. are booming in 2019 in Sydney, & throughout NSW/ACT. In 2019, GR regd. nos. will surpass WA.

The link below has figures for the NSW North Coast (ie north of Newcastle, not including the Newcastle/Hunter Black Diamond comps.). The North Coast was, until recent years, a very barren area for GR AF. In 2019, there will be a record 33 jnr. teams, in 10 Clubs- numbers have doubled since 2015. Snr. GR nos. are also having good growth.

http://aflnorthcoast.com.au/2019/03/28/biggest-ever-junior-competition-draw-is-out/
Sorry BBT but I don't think Roy Masters was predicting an AFL team in Campbelltown anyway but he would also have no basis to make that prediction.

He said it in the context of the AFL's growth in the reverina. He was referring to grass roots development not starting and AFL club there

That was an interesting listen overall. It is amazing how much the AFL dominated discussion (though pretty much absent of negativity apart from Roy Masters)
 

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Sorry BBT but I don't think Roy Masters was predicting an AFL team in Campbelltown anyway but he would also have no basis to make that prediction.[His basis is that the ABS predicts wealthy/influential/multiple corporate HQ Sydney to have a population of c. 8,000,000 in 2050- & ACT, Wollongong, South Coast etc c.1,000,000+]
He said it in the context of the AFL's growth in the reverina.[the Riverina has a VERY small population, cf Sydney, Canberra Wollongong & South Coast] He was referring to grass roots development not starting and AFL club there[I never implied, nor said, nor believe an AFL club would be based in the Riverina]
It is correct that Masters' did not specifically state that the AFL intended to place an additional AFL team in Campbelltown- I used the word "probable" re his mentioning of Campbelltown.

I inferred from Masters' comments ("the AFL will move into Campbelltown with a GREAT<my emphasis>-deal of wealth and resources") that he was referring to the "wealth and resources" needed to place a 3rd AFL team in the Campbelltown area.
This is the most obvious inference from his comments. The AFL already dominates the Riverina- & he states GR RL is, now, under siege/suffering further decline there. The AFL has no necessity or desire to expend "a great deal of wealth and resources" on the sparsely populated Riverina, as it is AF heartland.
 
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NoobPie

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It is correct that Masters' did not specifically state that the AFL intended to place an additional AFL team in Campbelltown- I used the word "probable" re his mentioning of Campbelltown.

I inferred from Masters' comments ("the AFL will move into Campbelltown with a GREAT-my emphasis- deal of wealth and resources") that he was referring to the "wealth and resources" needed to place a 3rd AFL team in the Campbelltown area.
This is the most obvious inference from his comments. The AFL already dominates the Riverina- & he states GR RL is, now, "under siege"/suffering further decline there!). The AFL has no necessity to expend "a great deal of wealth and resources" on the sparsely populated Riverina, AF heartland.
Again BBT

1) Roy Masters is far from an authority on the strategic direction of the AFL. He is a rugby league diehard with a particularly large shoulder chip towards the AFL
2) You are reading way to much in to his comments, "inferring" things rather than taking Roy's ramblings as just that, Ramblings
 

RedV3x

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In your opinion why do you think AFL has no professional club out of Australia?.
What is the point of this question ? What is the implication ?
Two states took rugby and ran with it. I don't know what those two states have done to develop the English game overseas.
Those same two states took steps to block the popularity of Australian Football in their states.
English rugby reneged on promises to host Australian Football in England for fear of the English liking Australian Football in preference to rugby.

Meanwhile Australian Football was big in New Zealand and they were admitted to the Australasian Football Council.
Australian Football has been played in other countries like Nauru and P.N.G. for some time now.
Australian Football took off in the 1990s and has gone from a being played in a handful of countries to being played regularly in over 55 countries.
From largely expat beginnings we now have men's, women's, youth and school competitions in a variety of formats.
There are a large number of International competitions and tournaments at league and club level.
Most of this development has been by what the AFL deems as "organic growth".
When the AFL itself has invested overseas there have been some spectacular outcomes.

To my knowledge the ARL cannot lay claim to much organic or investment growth in rugby league overseas specifically due to Australia.
IMO, AFL is well outperforming ARL in developing the game within Australia and beyond.

Returning to your question. Your question is incorrect. There have been a number of events with admittance being charged
and i now understand that some players and coaches are now being paid. That's semi-pro as nrl trolls like to point out.
In addition there are many leagues with strong sponsorships and revenue streams wit paid executives are getting more common.
In 30 years there has been fantastic increase in the amount of Australian Football being played in Australia and overseas.
I see much greater development in the next 30 years.
 

RedV3x

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No sport in our history has had as much impact on us.
That is an illusion. There was interest in one cricket team because it was national and there was nothing else going on in summer.
Test cricket is dead and if wasn't for T20 cricket would be dead as well.
In the meantime people are passionate about 18 AFL teams and state teams.
People have something to do in summer now.

The fact is that no sport has had an impact like Australian Football. It is Australian Football that has funded Australian stadiums.
 

Kwality

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That is an illusion. There was interest in one cricket team because it was national and there was nothing else going on in summer.
Test cricket is dead and if wasn't for T20 cricket would be dead as well.
In the meantime people are passionate about 18 AFL teams and state teams.
People have something to do in summer now.

The fact is that no sport has had an impact like Australian Football. It is Australian Football that has funded Australian stadiums.
No doubting the need for a truly national comp going forward, too many teams in Melbourne is the biggest barrier to truly national recognition any time soon - hard decisions arent in this AFL DNA.
 
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No doubting the need for a truly national comp going forward, too many teams in Melbourne is the biggest barrier to truly national recognition any time soon - hard decisions arent in this AFL DNA.
In an ideal world there wouldn't be 10 clubs in Victoria. However, consider the situation the NRL finds itself in. North Sydney Bears were removed in 1999. North Sydney is now the relative heartland of AFL in Sydney. This was also in a time before social media where it is now much more accessible for people to organise protests or movements.

As much as it would be more ideal for there to be less teams based in Melbourne for the AFL, I think it's important we learn from the missteps of competitors.
 

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Kwality

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In an ideal world there wouldn't be 10 clubs in Victoria. However, consider the situation the NRL finds itself in. North Sydney Bears were removed in 1999. North Sydney is now the relative heartland of AFL in Sydney. This was also in a time before social media where it is now much more accessible for people to organise protests or movements.

As much as it would be more ideal for there to be less teams based in Melbourne for the AFL, I think it's important we learn from the missteps of competitors.
North Sydney is now the relative heartland of AFL in Sydney you say. Not important, but why is it so? I'd have thought the Eastern Suburbs for support, still up Pennant Hills way for competition.

& oh for an ideal world :)
 
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North Sydney is now the relative heartland of AFL in Sydney you say. Not important, but why is it so? I'd have thought the Eastern Suburbs for support, still up Pennant Hills way for competition.

& oh for an ideal world :)
Fair point. I can see arguments for all three of those regions to be honest. I probably should have worded it "a relative heartland". But I agree completely that the Hills region and Eastern Suburbs would be considered heartland areas too.

Amazing work the Swans have done when you look at it.
 
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Jnr. AF Club Team numbers in Sydney are continuing to have significant growth in 2019- see link below.
It should be noted that the these non-school CLUB team figures do not include AF players aged from 5 y.o. up to 8 y.o. (many 5 y.o. - 8 y.o. are Auskick participants, which number many thousands in Sydney & NSW- & are also growing strongly).

The figures in the aflsj link show the jnr. Club Sydney Harbour comp. & the Western Sydney comp.

Sydney Independent GPS, CAS, ISA school AF teams are also shown- but these numbers do not show the various Catholic school AF team comps.
There are, in 2019, c. 60 male AF teams in the Sydney Independent school comps ie GPS, CAS, IAS.
Female GPS, CAS etc. teams have also started in 2018, & are having good growth- in 2019, there were 38 female AF school teams (years 7-12 only).

West Syd. GWS Zone No. of Jnr. AF Club Teams
2012- 67
2017- 155
2019- 174

Sydney Swans Zone No. of Jnr. AF Club Teams
2012- 210
2017- 366
2019- 491

http://aflsj.com.au/fixtures-results/

GR jnr Club AF is strong in the North Shore of Sydney. The President of Willoughby (North Shore) JFC, in his 2018 Annual Report, has written, re GR AF's strength
"...continue to be one of the DOMINANT (my emphasis) winter sporting codes on the Sydney North Shore".

http://wildcatsafl.com/presidents-report-2018-agm/

Male & female AF is growing strongly in Sydney & NSW Catholic private & secondary schools sport competitions eg MCS, NSW CCC etc
Catholic primary school student numbers dominate the non-state private primary school sector in NSW (& Australia)- probably 95%+.
Catholic secondary schools are also very large in the non-state private secondary school sector in NSW (& Australia)- probably 70%+.

The NSW CCC in 2019 added female AF to its existing male AF competitions in Catholic schools sports.

https://www.csss.nsw.edu.au/nswccc-afl.aspx
 
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RedV3x

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No doubting the need for a truly national comp going forward, too many teams in Melbourne is the biggest barrier to truly national recognition any time soon - hard decisions arent in this AFL DNA.
WTF ? Truly national competition. You have AFL teams in the big cities and AFL games in lesser cities. You have Australian Football played everywhere. Newcastle with the Black Diamond Cup is home to the longest continuous sporting competition in Australia. Wollongong reached the premier division in 2005 and now Manly joins North Shore having teams in the Sydney premier league which is relevant to this thread discussion.

You don't have idiots saying the NFL is not a truly national competition with only 32 teams in a nation of 50 states. The U.S.A. has only 10 cities with a population over 1 million people. So the U.S.A. has the same uneven mix as Australia.

HTF is Melbourne is any sort of "barrier" is beyond me. The dynamics of Australian Football growth within Australia are suggesting certain changes. Perth is so large now that a 3rd AFL team is a technical possibility. AFL growth in Sydney produces this thread about the possibility of a 3rd AFL team in Sydney. Meanwhile there aren't too many teams in Melbourne. There is a problem with distribution but even the weakest AFL teams in Melbourne are monoliths compared to any NRL team.

You have a short memory w.r.t. hard decisions as well. The VFL relocated South Melbourne to form the AFL. The AFL merged Fitzroy to form Brisbane. The AFL invested heavily to create the Goldcoast and Western Sydney AFL teams. Don't forget the NEAFL either which includes a Northern Territory team. Then don't forget the stunning success of the AFLW with the AFLW GF being the biggest game outside of the AFL to date. What to you call the overseas investments by the AFL - South Africa, New Zealand, China, PNG and the Pacific?
The AFL has been reluctant to significantly finance organic growth overseas because there's simply too much to finance but recent developments in school programs has leveraged huge outcomes in Canada and Great Britain. You'll even see school programs in places like Macau and Malaysia. The template of AFL development is quite clear. with the main focus on grassroots and less on production.
 

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Having played footy in Sydney in the 70s, & followed the game when based in Brisbane & Adelaide, I've some experience to call on, truly national IMHO we are not there yet, lopsided comp, too many teams in Melbourne leads to a lopsided comp.

Since Jacko left the chief exec seat, there have been no hard decisions, spending future earnings is not hard when faced with overflowing revenue, being baulked as AndyD was with North to the Gold Coast is a stain that historians will not treat kindly.

Not denying the progress, simply telling it as I see it, & we arent truly national yet IMHO.
 

RedV3x

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I can see arguments for all three of those regions to be honest. I probably should have worded it "a relative heartland". But I agree completely that the Hills region and Eastern Suburbs would be considered heartland areas too.
It's not mutually exclusive. North Shore, Eastern Suburbs and the Hills have all been "heartlands" and still are. The Manly peninsula
has joined North Shore as a powerhouse. The Eastern Suburbs has gone from supporting AFL to massive grassroots developments in the likes of the Maroubra club. Football continues to grow and spread in the Hills. I don't really like the term "heartland' as it masks the general spread and growth of the game.
 
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It's not mutually exclusive. North Shore, Eastern Suburbs and the Hills have all been "heartlands" and still are. The Manly peninsula
has joined North Shore as a powerhouse. The Eastern Suburbs has gone from supporting AFL to massive grassroots developments in the likes of the Maroubra club. Football continues to grow and spread in the Hills. I don't really like the term "heartland' as it masks the general spread and growth of the game.
As the game spreads and becomes strong in new areas, those areas become heartland areas too. I do agree though that it's not mutually exclusive, which is what I was trying to say when I emphasised the "a" that should have been there.
 
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