A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

RussellEbertHandball

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G. Lyon appears to disagree with your generous estimate of these 2 SCG ODI crowds. He said today on SEN Radio, re these 2 SCG cricket ODI's, & a CA match in Tasmania on 20.3.20
"I think this is the battle of the sports...They (Cricket Australia- my words) may get an A League-like awakening" ie alluding to the big fall in ratings & crowds when the A League season overlaps the AFL season.

When it was announced that CA would extend the BBL into February, some MSM commentators (including Bill Lawry) said CA was unhappy with the AFLW being played in "cricket's summer season", & the high profile/success of the AFLW. CA, therefore, was trying to curb the success of the AFLW by denying it clear media air.
Perhaps CA wants to exercise "payback" against the AFL for playing the AFLW in summer- & the almost inevitable extension of the AFLW earlier into summer, as it expands/longer H & A season. The AFLW is becoming the great "disruptor" in Australian sport.

In 2020, the AFL starts on 20.3.20. Would it be possible/safe for AFL, NRL, Super Rugby, ALeague games to be played n the SCG just before, or just after, these 2 cricket matches on 13.3 & 15.3.20?

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/05...league-like-awakening-taking-on-footy-season/
If India didn't dominate the cricket schedule, this wouldn't have happened. Sure there might be a bit of FU to the AFL by CA, but they aren't going to take 2 big drawing games to smaller cities. If in doubt, follow the $$$$$.
 

robbieando

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Also keep in mind that Australia is hosting the Womens T20 World Cup in Feb-Mar 2020 so they can't play their home series then as well as the Big Bash and have the amount of grounds needed available for all three. So once the BCCI demanded that the Australian's tour India in January, middle of March was the only logical time to host NZ at home and then it came down to available grounds and the SCG Trust will never say no to Cricket.
 

Rob

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CA would be thinking 2 x 30-40k crowds at the SCG, especially if cricket fans have been "starved" of cricket because of the Indian tour. If they got the MCG they would have been happy with 1 game with a 50-60k crowd.
They won't get 30k across the 2 days. ODIs against NZ when everyone's talking footy? Be doing well to get into 5 figures IMO.
 

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abcde12345

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They won't get 30k across the 2 days. ODIs against NZ when everyone's talking footy? Be doing well to get into 5 figures IMO.
NRL started on the 14th of March this year. Aussie Rules a week later. After a long summer, will be interesting to see just how many people do rock up across the two days. You'd imagine all the focus will be on the winter codes at that time.
 

BringBackTorps

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SMH journalist P. Fitzsimons is a former Wallaby & strong RU supporter.
On 6.12.18, he wrote, in an article on how the various sports fared in 2018

"Aussie Rules, meantime, continue to go from strength to strength and here in Sydney their rate of growth remains staggering- with more and more schools, including one time nurseries of rugby union, starting to sprout Aussie Rules goal posts".

Foxtel's recently announced a $417,000,000 loss. Due to poor ratings, it will demote some "minor" sports now deemed as "marquee sports", which will include RU. This demotion will reduce RA Broadcast $ Rights significantly.

Fitzsimons predicts, due to Super Rugby's very poor ratings & imminent loss of Rights $, an ominous scenario for RA (but suggests long term RU revival).

"The sober reality is that the income for the game is likely to diminish further...When the contracts inevitably decrease in a couple of years, the result will be that a lot of the best players will simply take the money on offer in other parts of the rugby globe".

The inevitable decline in well paid RU player positions in Australia will probably result in many NSW, ACT, & Qld. athletic teens being more attracted to AF- as it has 700+ well paid player positions in Australia.
This will be exacerbated if Foxtel decides it doesn't want Super Rugby on its cable platform at all- as its ratings are so poor.

The constellation of events, & weakening of the other 3 football codes, may soon present AF with significant opportunities for further growth in NSW, ACT, & Qld.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/marque...ig-bucks-will-save-rugby-20190515-p51npx.html
 
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TWLS

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SMH journalist P. Fitzsimons is a former Wallaby & strong RU supporter.
On 6.12.18, he wrote, in an article on how the various sports fared in 2018

"Aussie Rules, meantime, continue to go from strength to strength and here in Sydney their rate of growth remains staggering- with more and more schools, including one time nurseries of rugby union, starting to sprout Aussie Rules goal posts".

Foxtel's recently announced a $417,000,000 loss. Due to poor ratings, it will demote some "minor" sports now deemed as "marquee sports", which will include RU. This demotion will reduce RA Broadcast $ Rights significantly.

Fitzsimons predicts, due to Super Rugby's very poor ratings & imminent loss of Rights $, an ominous scenario for RA (but suggests long term RU revival).

"The sober reality is that the income for the game is likely to diminish further...When the contracts inevitably decrease in a couple of years, the result will be that a lot of the best players will simply take the money on offer in other parts of the rugby globe".

The inevitable decline in well paid RU player positions in Australia will probably result in many NSW, ACT, & Qld. athletic teens being more attracted to AF- as it has 700+ well paid player positions in Australia.
This will be exacerbated if Foxtel decides it doesn't want Super Rugby on its cable platform at all- as its ratings are so poor.

The constellation of events, & weakening of the other 3 football codes, may soon present AF with significant opportunities for further growth in NSW, ACT, & Qld.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/marque...ig-bucks-will-save-rugby-20190515-p51npx.html
Some Points on this topic--
First up there is no staggering growth of our game up there- What there is is steady growth from a low base and Fitzsimons tends to exaggerate all the time, usually when he is promoting his many books.
The mention our iconic Goal Posts is interesting - They standout because they are noticeable even to the casual eye as you drive past if you are not used to seeing them. AFLNSW used to publish how many Goal Post grants they dished out each year.
Where Fitzsimons is starting to sit up and take notice of our game is in his beloved Rugby heartland - The Sydney Private Schools who long blocked our game except for Riverview, who re introduced our game in circa 1948.
Some of those Private schools (Male and Female) have now accepted our sport and if they hadn`t he would be none the wiser.
Finally the growth up there is still not reflected in the TV ratings - Still a long way to go.
 

General Giant

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Some Points on this topic--
First up there is no staggering growth of our game up there- What there is is steady growth from a low base and Fitzsimons tends to exaggerate all the time, usually when he is promoting his many books.
The mention our iconic Goal Posts is interesting - They standout because they are noticeable even to the casual eye as you drive past if you are not used to seeing them. AFLNSW used to publish how many Goal Post grants they dished out each year.
Where Fitzsimons is starting to sit up and take notice of our game is in his beloved Rugby heartland - The Sydney Private Schools who long blocked our game except for Riverview, who re introduced our game in circa 1948.
Some of those Private schools (Male and Female) have now accepted our sport and if they hadn`t he would be none the wiser.
Finally the growth up there is still not reflected in the TV ratings - Still a long way to go.
How do you know?

I'll go out on a limb and say people in the region would no more than people on the other side of the country.
 

Johnny Bananas

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So I heard Sydney is working to an overall city strategy of having three CBDs: present Sydney CBD, present Parramatta CBD, and building a third one in Campbelltown. And they'll centre development and transport links around these three places.

There's currently a team covering the first two, nobody covering the third. Might be the most logical place for an eventual 3rd NSW team, because CBDs are the hotbed of corporate support which is necessary for a club to survive. There's a reason why the A-League has adopted this as their Sydney strategy too, a team in or near each of the three CBDs.

And yes, GWS needs time to cement itself so I don't expect it until at least 2040 if ever. Campbelltown is the fastest growing place in the nation outside Victoria though, and has a heap more space left to fill. Can't see the AFL with their untold greed avoiding that potential gold mine. Especially since the NRL are neglecting the place and only giving them three games a year.
 

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jedi mind tricks

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Suns are in queensland.

Giants and suns have 40k members between them

Confused why you wrote three other sports at all let alone in caps lock
I know they are. I'm suggesting the AFL needs to strengthen it's manufactured teams before manufacturing more.

Three sports that dominate AFL. I abbreviated two of them hence caps lock. It ain't hard to figure out
 

jedi mind tricks

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Good thing we haven't begun to scratch the long term yet for either of the expansion clubs then, given they're both less than ten years old.
Nope we haven't. It's a fickle market in non AFL states. I'm not saying there will never be another NSW team. But things need to be developed long term in NSW. The afl are introducing this
 

RussellEbertHandball

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So I heard Sydney is working to an overall city strategy of having three CBDs: present Sydney CBD, present Parramatta CBD, and building a third one in Campbelltown. And they'll centre development and transport links around these three places.

There's currently a team covering the first two, nobody covering the third. Might be the most logical place for an eventual 3rd NSW team, because CBDs are the hotbed of corporate support which is necessary for a club to survive. There's a reason why the A-League has adopted this as their Sydney strategy too, a team in or near each of the three CBDs.

And yes, GWS needs time to cement itself so I don't expect it until at least 2040 if ever. Campbelltown is the fastest growing place in the nation outside Victoria though, and has a heap more space left to fill. Can't see the AFL with their untold greed avoiding that potential gold mine.
20 years ago when I lived in Sydney the Campbelltown Monarch Blues were the dominate Aussie Rules side in Sydney and left the SAFL comp (or what it was called back then) and joined the Canberra league as they wanted to play in a stronger league.

Before the GWS was announced they would enter a team, the AFL in September 2006 The Next Generation document, saying how they would spend some of their 2007-11 TV monies, also said they wanted a team in western Sydney by 2015, I said on Bigfooty back then that from a purely footy point of view it made sense to look at Campbelltown and the Monarchs model, but realistically being based at Sydney Olympic Park with all the great facilities there and near Paramatta being the true geographic centre of Sydney made the most sense.

North Melbourne when they were trying to crack Sydney as their 2nd market played 2 or 3 preseason games there. In 1999 at the North v Sydney preseason game / Ansett Cup I had a chat to the state member for Campbelltown and Minister for the Olympics Michael Knight. Thru a mate, I knew his chief of staff, and as I dropped his name he chatted to me for about 10 minutes, mainly about Olympics but a bit of footy. He said that when Campbelltown expanded in the 1970's the Monarchs got the ground built with help from the council in the mid 1970's and they had pokies from early on when the club started and they grew as the community grew and the footy club had a decent connection to the community despite footy being a minor sport. Campbelltown was only about 40,000 people in 1970 and now is about 180,000. That pokies money helped them grow quickly and become a dominate club.

They moved back to SAFL in the early naughties and I think they merged with a club who was struggling. They now struggle compared to 20 years ago. The AFL has poured development monies into areas closer to Sydney and Paramatta and they haven't kept up.
 

Johnny Bananas

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said they wanted a team in western Sydney by 2015, I said on Bigfooty back then that from a purely footy point of view it made sense to look at Campbelltown and the Monarchs model, but realistically being based at Sydney Olympic Park with all the great facilities there and near Paramatta being the true geographic centre of Sydney made the most sense.
Interesting. Choosing Olympic Park definitely made more sense for the AFL from a facilities and access point of view as you say. Probably also the best in the long term given a Campbelltown team would have tried to take over the Parramatta and Olympic Park areas too but the Giants aren't doing as much in Campbelltown. Three teams in Sydney is easier to accomplish when they all have distinct areas that they are claiming as heartland.

And of course the AFL want to do everything from scratch, they clearly don't care about what state teams do or if they're successful, hence starting the Suns instead of promoting Southport Sharks.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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Interesting. Choosing Olympic Park definitely made more sense for the AFL from a facilities and access point of view as you say. Probably also the best in the long term given a Campbelltown team would have tried to take over the Parramatta and Olympic Park areas too but the Giants aren't doing as much in Campbelltown. Three teams in Sydney is easier to accomplish when they all have distinct areas that they are claiming as heartland.

And of course the AFL want to do everything from scratch, they clearly don't care about what state teams do or if they're successful, hence starting the Suns instead of promoting Southport Sharks.
When the AFL announced around 2009 that Blacktown was going to be where the GWS would be based, I thought they were nuts. Campbelltown was better from a footy culture point of view given what the Monarchs had done in the community, there was no SAFL team in Blacktown, but knew Olympic Park made the most sense for many reasons, but facilities was a big one as well as being closer to Sydney.

You didn't want 18 and 19 year old kids to be based out at Blacktown 36kms from Sydney or Campbelltown, 52 kms away. When the AFL and GWS after getting Blacktown Council to spend about $10m on facilities out there, said they would be based at Olympic Park and that the players the first few years would be based in the new suburb of Breakfast Point, which was the old AGL site in Concord on the Harbour I knew they were on a winner.

I lived in Concord between 1998-03, about 4 km east of ANZ stadium and about 2km south of the new suburb. It was only 16km from the Sydney CBD and 30-40 minutes from the beaches in reasonable traffic, which wasn't all the time mind you. The ferry station was only a few hundred metres walk. It was so much more a desirable place to live than Blacktown.

I cant see another Sydney based side for another 40 years. Campbelltown wont have the sort of advantages I have mentioned above re Olympic Park/Breakfast Point which is on the very eastern edge of western Sydney or the inner west, to set up a new team with lots of 18-19 year olds. But in 40 years time the landscape could be very different in Campbelltown..

The reason the AFL didn't go with Southport, despite having $20m cash in the bank to buy a licence in 2004, was that they aren't well liked in the footy community up there. they buy all the best players and pinch juniors developed by te other clubs. The AFL feared they wouldnt have broad community appeal. I lived on the GC in 1996 and 2003-04 after I moved out of Concord so I spoke to a few people if footy up there to get a feel for what they thought of Southport trying to get an AFL team. I go back regularly as my sister has lived up there since 1992.
 

Johnny Bananas

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I cant see another Sydney based side for another 40 years. Campbelltown wont have the sort of advantages I have mentioned above re Olympic Park/Breakfast Point which is on the very eastern edge of western Sydney or the inner west, to set up a new team with lots of 18-19 year olds. But in 40 years time the landscape could be very different in Campbelltown..
Some very good insights, thanks for sharing. I do think Campbelltown will be an easier sell in another generation, firstly because they're only beginning to develop a CBD there now, it could be as big as Parramatta in another generation. Secondly because if AFL grows at a rapid pace in Sydney, there will be plenty of talented locals. One thing I will give the AFL credit for is that they can dream big.
 

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