A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

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NoobPie

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if you don't like my posts, put me on ignore.

No I don't like you trolling and then reporting responses to your trolling

It is my prerogative whether or not to ignore you or to call you out. I chose to call you out.


bigfooty is the largest sports forum in Australia(I assume). It is going to have a community of sports-loving people who may be here, primary, for other sports. #tennis

Sure, but it is primarily an Australian football forum.

You are free to just hang out on the tennis forum but you seem addicted to coming on to the Footy Industry forum and almost invariably taking offence on soccer's behalf. It is really strange behaviour.
 

RedV3x

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if you don't like my posts, put me on ignore.

It doesn't work like that.

bigfooty is the largest sports forum in Australia(I assume). It is going to have a community of sports-loving people who may be here, primary, for other sports.

Maybe, but why don't you hang out on the soccer board?
 

BringBackTorps

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1. These interesting ratings from MediaSpy, for 23.8 AFL FTA & Foxtel games, reveal the AFL attracts a higher % of viewers, cf NRL televised games, in the younger demographics ie 16-39 y.o., 18-49, & 25-54.


The fact that the AFL is attracting a higher % of viewers in younger age groups bodes well for the AFL, in the medium to long term, in increasing its market share in NSW, ACT, & Qld. This will be very appreciated (& a vindication) by the AFL, & will add to the impetus for a 3rd AFL club in Sydney, sometime in the 2030's. I recall AFL officials stating, c. 2008-2012, the AFL will concentrate its marketing on kids & mothers etc. in NSW, ACT, & Qld.

As Noobpie said, on 20.8, in a Thread on the growth of AF in Qld. on the BF Main Board

"Brisbane (Lions) had highest numbers in the 16-39 age group after Melbourne.
If you look at the ratings on Thursday & Friday nights this year, the numbers in the 16-39 age bracket in Brisbane often exceed the numbers watching in Adelaide & Perth".


On 24.8, in the BF AFL ratings Thread, Noobpie said

"Key takeaway is that AFL skews young, compared to the NRL...but by the time you drill down into the 16-39 age group, the top NRL game has almost dropped behind the bottom AFL game". * See EDIT below.

The NRL FTA & Foxtel viewing demographic, cf the AFL, has a higher % aged 55+.
Is this a worrying demographic time-bomb for the NRL, & an eventual net loss of viewers/fans/crowd nos.?

Can anyone else provide (with new ratings'info.- plus Morgan polls) age breakdowns on viewers and/or those attending live matches?
Ditto for RU & soccer?




2. In pleasing news for the AFL re the GCFC & GWS expansions, in 2019 there were 70 players on AFL lists recruited from Queensland, NSW (not including sthn. NSW) & ACT- but in 1996, the equivalent was only 33 drafted players on lists.
When sthn. NSW is included, the total from NSW, ACT, & Qld. on lists in 2019 was 105- but in 1996, it was only 53.

It should also be noted that, from c. 1998-2012, new player drafted from sthn. NSW had decreased alarmingly. There are now 35 players from sthn. NSW- AFL heartland- on AFL lists. These nos. have risen considerably since GWS was created, & it established its Academies in various locations etc.



















*EDIT:
Re my point 1 above, here are more 16-39 ratings NoobPie was referring to



Furthermore, in that Thread, Rob said

"I've been following the demos for a while., & its also noticeable that Brisbane skews young as well. Despite having a lot less overall viewers,, the Lions game had more 16-39's watching than the Crows & Adelaide did in Adelaide & Perth...it is a pretty consistent trend".
 
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NoobPie

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1. These interesting ratings from MediaSpy, for 23.8 AFL FTA & Foxtel games, cf NRL televised games, reveal the AFL attracts a higher % of viewers in the younger demographics ie 16-39 y.o., 18-49, & 25-54.


The fact that the AFL is attracting a higher % of viewers in younger age groups bodes well for the AFL, in the medium to long term, in increasing its market share in NSW, ACT, & Qld. This will add to the impetus for a 3rd AFL club in Sydney, sometime in the 2030's.

As Noobpie said, on 20.8, in a Thread on the growth of AF in Qld. on the BF Main Board

"Brisbane (Lions) had highest numbers in the 16-39 age group after Melbourne.
If you look at the ratings on Thursday & Friday nights this year, the numbers in the 16-39 age bracket in Brisbane often exceed the numbers watching in Adelaide & Perth".


On 24.8, in the BF AFL ratings Thread, Noobpie said

"Key takeaway is that AFL skews young, compared to the NRL...but by the time you drill down into the 16-39 age group, the topNRL game has almost dropped behind the bottom AFL game".

It appears that the NRL FTA & Foxtel viewing demographic, cf the AFL, is more popular with those 55+.
Is this a worrying demographic time-bomb for the NRL, & an eventual net loss of viewers?
Can anyone else provide age breakdowns on viewers and/or those attending live matches?
Ditto for RU & soccer?




2. In pleasing news for the AFL re the GCFC & GWS expansions, in 2019 there were 70 players on AFL lists recruited from Queensland, NSW (not including sthn. NSW) & ACT- but in 1996, the equivalent was only 33 drafted players on lists.
When sthn. NSW is included, the total from NSW, ACT, & Qld. on lists in 2019 was 105- but in 1996, it was only 53.

It should also be noted that, from c.1998-2012, new player nos. drafted from sthn. NSW had decreased alarmingly. There are now 35 players from sthn. NSW on AFL lists- the nos. have risen considerably since GWS was created, & it established its Academies in various locations etc.



BringBackTorps you are making me blush!
 

BringBackTorps

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1. sport.360.com N. Mc Cague 8.6.20

Mc Cague said, re Sydney

"...historic private schools which have provided Wallabies like King's School, Barker College, Newington School have gone from 5 teams per age group to just 2-3. This would have been unheard of 10 years ago. On the North Shore, there were 650 kids registered at the famous Lindfield Rugby Club...in 2015. Now the numbers are as low as 400".




2. North Shore AF Club (est. 1903) has become the biggest snr GR club in Sydney, with 12 snr teams, c. 400+ players (including men's, women's, Masters, U19's). It must have a good culture. It is one of the biggest snr GR AF clubs in Australia (maybe the biggest? Fitzroy VAFA snr GR club has c. 300+ players- is one of the biggest in VAFA).

Four of its snr men's teams have just become Minor Premiers; & a fifth snr team came second at the end of the H & A season. Success in the Finals is eagerly anticipated. This success, from the top Premier Division (the elite SFL division) down, has never been replicated in the SFL. Ten NSFC teams will make Finals!

Strong junior nos., from the booming NS, are flowing into the snr Club. The snr Club does not have the finances/student player assembly lines/job networks etc of the powerhouses Sydney Uni. FC, & UNSW-Eastern Suburbs FC (nor their prestigious NEAFL representation). Nor does it have the wealth of East Coast Eagles Baulkham Hills.

North Shore FC Premier comp. team beat the previously undefeated runner-up, Sydney Uni. by 40 pts- even though Syd. Uni. contained numerous mature & experienced NEAFL players (who returned to their home, Sydney Uni Club. Due to covid, NEAFL never eventuated this year).

The success of North Shore FC demonstrates the strength of the junior pathways throughout all of Sydney's northern region. The perennial powerhouse Sydney Uni. FC doesn't have juniors.


(see facebook posts 12.9 & 6.9)









EDIT:

 
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Les Malone

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1. sport.360.com N. Mc Cague 8.6.20

Mc Cague said, re Sydney

"...historic private schools which have provided Wallabies like King's School, Barker College, Newington School have gone from 5 teams per age group to just 2-3. This would have been unheard of 10 years ago. On the North Shore, there were 650 kids registered at the famous Lindfield Rugby Club...in 2015. Now the numbers are as low as 400".




2. North Shore AF Club (est. 1903) has become the biggest snr GR club in Sydney, with 12 snr teams, c. 400+ players (including men's, women's, Masters, U19's). It must have a good culture. It is one of the biggest snr GR AF clubs in Australia (maybe the biggest? Fitzroy VAFA snr GR club has c. 300+ players- is one of the biggest in VAFA).

Four of its snr men's teams have just become Minor Premiers; & a fifth snr team came second at the end of the H & A season. Success in the Finals is eagerly anticipated. This success, from the top Premier Division (the elite SFL division) down, has never been replicated in the SFL. Ten NSFC teams will make Finals.

Strong junior nos. are flowing into the snr Club. The snr Club does not have the finances/student player assembly lines/job networks etc of the powerhouses Sydney Uni.FC, & UNSW-Eastern Suburbs FC (nor their prestigious NEAFL representation). Nor does it have the wealth of East Coast Eagles Baulkham Hills.

North Shore FC Premier comp. team beat the previously undefeated runner-up, Sydney Uni,. by 40 pts- even though Syd. Uni. contained numerous NEAFL players (who returned to their home, Sydney Uni Club. Due to covid, NEAFL never eventuated this year).

The success of North Shore FC demonstrates the strength of the junior pathways throughout all of Sydney's northern region. The perennial powerhouse Sydney Uni. FC doesn't have juniors.


(see facebook posts 12.9 & 6.9)









EDIT:


the talk several years ago was because of ground shortages that local AF would see city or surrounding clubs have to take on more senior or junior teams because historically AF did not have the grounds, 12 senior teams is just crazy huge and not sustainable IMO if you want to provide the players with a decent club feel, i have no idea how they manage that when you think about playing home games or providing coaching staff, physios, runners etc etc.

i remember coaching a junior team at a very big club where we did not play at the clubs real home ground or perhaps just once for the season, we didn't train there either, you don't really feel like a part of the club.
 

RedV3x

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the talk several years ago was because of ground shortages that local AF would see city or surrounding clubs have to take on more senior or junior teams because historically AF did not have the grounds,

Though there are ground shortages exacerbated by the huge growth in women's football, there has been a lot of new clubs playing at new grounds.
e.g. Manly and Randwick city.
 

BringBackTorps

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South Africa has announced it is withdrawing from Super Rugby, possibly from 2021, to permanently join the Pro 14 in Europe.


Australia & NZ are yet to determine what, in the long term, will be the format of their 2nd tier pro RU comps. Domestic, or trans Tasman comps.?

The SA withdrawal is very bad news for RA's future Rights' quantum. RA still doesn't have a Pay TV or FTA Rights' deal for 2021 onwards.

Super Rugby (for also Aust. & NZ teams) obtained c. 50% of its Rights' $ from European broadcasters- because SA games were played in the same time zone as European Prime Time. Australia & NZ games in SA would "piggy- back" of these high ratings achieved in Europe. Games located in Aust. & NZ had much lower ratings in Europe.

The SA move will be very damaging for elite & GR RU in Australia, because it is inevitable that:-

. Aust. 2nd tier Rugby games will attract far lower Rights' $ for RA.

. the lower Rights' $ will cause more of the best Aust. RU players to move overseas for higher contracts (RA becoming more impecunious from 2021). The average 2nd tier standard, therefore, will drop considerably.

. With declining 2nd tier standards, ratings & crowds will decline further: adding to more Rights' & sponsorship $ reductions; & less MSM coverage.
Also, a decline in average standards will almost certainly lead to poorer recruits for the Wallabies (even if RA allows Australians playing overseas to be WB's).
Weak WB's = Declining RU GR.

. Aust. players "forced" to move overseas for higher remuneration may be barred from playing for for Aust.- making the Wallabies less competitive.
A less competitive Wallabies reduces their win rates- further lowering crowds, ratings & MSM coverage. This will considerably devalue the traditional Wallabies' cash-cow.

. with fewer well paid RU player positions in Aust., persons who are very young & athletic (& their parents; & elite RU schools?) are more likely to choose/switch to AF in NSW, ACT, & Qld.
RU will lose much of its "glamour/pull factors".
In NSW, ACT, & Qld., GR AF in particular, & the AFL in general, will be major beneficiaries in the almost inevitable & significant financial decline of the 2nd tier RU (& Wallabies?). Sydney's NS & ES will see the greatest advances for AF.
 
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RedV3x

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In NSW, ACT, & Qld., GR AF in particular, & the AFL in general, will be major beneficiaries in the almost inevitable & significant financial decline of the 2nd tier RU (& Wallabies?). Sydney's NS & ES will see the greatest advances for AF.

I don't see soccer benefiting at all.
Theoretically RL should simply takeover where RU left off but surprisingly that's probably not the case.
A.F. should benefit were theoretically it shouldn't.
Maybe where the game of RL is close to RU, the AFL 'vibe' is closer to RU.
I see the situation in schools where the lessening of RU could push the formation of an AFL team that was on the cusp of being created.
 

Pippen94

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South Africa has announced it is withdrawing from Super Rugby, possibly from 2021, to permanently join the Pro 14 in Europe.


Australia & NZ are yet to determine what, in the long term, will be the format of their 2nd tier pro RU comps. Domestic, or trans Tasman comps.?

The SA withdrawal is very bad news for RA's future Rights' quantum. RA still doesn't have a Pay TV or FTA Rights' deal for 2021 onwards.

Super Rugby (for all its member teams) obtained 50%+ of its Rights $ from European broadcasters- because SA games were played in the same time zone as European Prime Time. Australia & NZ games in SA could "piggy- back" of these high ratings achieved in Europe. Games located in Aust. & NZ had much lower ratings in Europe.

The SA move will be very damaging for elite & GR RU in Australia, because it is inevitable that:-

. Aust. 2nd tier Rugby games will attract far lower Rights' $ for RA.

. the lower Rights' $ will cause more elite Aust. RU players to move overseas for higher contracts (RA becoming more impecunious from 2021). The average 2nd tier standard, therefore, will drop considerably.

. With declining standards, Aust. 2nd tier ratings & crowds will decline further: adding to more Rights', & crowd, $ reductions.

. Aust. players "forced" to move overseas for higher remuneration may be barred from playing for for Aust.- making the Wallabies less competitive.
A less competitive Wallabies reduces their win rates- further lowering crowds & ratings, thus considerably devaluing the traditional Wallabies' cash-cow.

. with fewer well paid RU player positions in Aust., persons who are very young & athletic (& their parents; & elite RU schools?) are more likely to choose/switch to AF in NSW, ACT, & Qld.
RU will lose much of its "glamour/pull factors".
In NSW, ACT, & Qld., GR AF in particular, & the AFL in general, will be major beneficiaries in the almost inevitable & significant financial decline of the 2nd tier RU (& Wallabies?). Sydney's NS & ES will see the greatest advances for AF.
Will signal creation of domestic competition which create more paid opportunities than super rugby did.
 

Pippen94

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I don't see soccer benefiting at all.
Theoretically RL should simply takeover where RU left off but surprisingly that's probably not the case.
A.F. should benefit were theoretically it shouldn't.
Maybe where the game of RL is close to RU, the AFL 'vibe' is closer to RU.
I see the situation in schools where the lessening of RU could push the formation of an AFL team that was on the cusp of being created.
Only on this board think a third team is on cards - pure fantasy
 

RedV3x

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Only on this board think a third team is on cards - pure fantasy

What's this got to do with.....

I don't see soccer benefiting at all.
Theoretically RL should simply takeover where RU left off but surprisingly that's probably not the case.
A.F. should benefit were theoretically it shouldn't.
Maybe where the game of RL is close to RU, the AFL 'vibe' is closer to RU.
I see the situation in schools where the lessening of RU could push the formation of an AFL team that was on the cusp of being created.
 

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Pippen94

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For a certain someone who never did get back to me about the Giants Foxtel numbers
It appears nationally they averaged 177,000 on paytv.

A bit more than the 30k or so of his true club the Wanderers. Based in the sports heartland.

Only bring it up as he seems to have forgotten the discussion.
29k watch afl in Sydney anyway on average. Team at homebush gets 34k which includes some main channel games. Means clubs is good for only 5k extra in Sydney - no good
 
Apr 12, 2012
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29k watch afl in Sydney anyway on average. Team at homebush gets 34k which includes some main channel games. Means clubs is good for only 5k extra in Sydney - no good

On FTA. Not including Foxtel.

As stated the figure you complain about that we get in Sydney FTA is what your Wanderers get nationally on fox, where we avg 170k, you know the club and sport you say has more of a future, that one.
 

Pippen94

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On FTA. Not including Foxtel.

As stated the figure you complain about that we get in Sydney FTA is what your Wanderers get nationally on fox, where we avg 170k, you know the club and sport you say has more of a future, that one.
Considering home average is so low foxtel audience would be made up of fans of other team
 
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Upon its return, A-League was struggling to reach 10k in ratings most games.
For those who don't know, anything less than 10k is so low, that you're just a rounding error away from zero.
That's basically NBL level ratings.
Little wonder that all sponsors have deserted the A-League.
 

Pippen94

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Upon its return, A-League was struggling to reach 10k in ratings most games.
For those who don't know, anything less than 10k is so low, that you're just a rounding error away from zero.
That's basically NBL level ratings.
Little wonder that all sponsors have deserted the A-League.
Swans have existed for just about 40 years & yet average audience in Sydney is 39k - that's with huge marketing & mainstream TV channel behind them. I wouldn't be boasting about numbers
 
Apr 12, 2012
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Swans have existed for just about 40 years & yet average audience in Sydney is 39k - that's with huge marketing & mainstream TV channel behind them. I wouldn't be boasting about numbers

I wouldn’t pot shot a frontier sport and clubs that get more in the city than the supposed heartland of a sport does nationally.
 
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